Let's play what if...

bisleybisley Senior MemberPosts: 10,650 Senior Member
Let's pretend that the worst case scenario happens politically - that a leftist gets elected President and they gain a majority in Congress. Two Supreme Court justices retire or die. Obamacare survives and creeps inevitably toward a single payer system with the government being the final arbiter of who gets medical care and who pays for it. The illegal Iran 'treaty' stays in place, ISIS and Al Qaeda proliferates, China begins to threaten Taiwan, Russia continues its expansionist plans, and the stock market spirals downward.

Short of revolution, what will the red states do to counter it? Obviously, the blue states will be on board with the feds until it's too late to stop the transformation into classic socialism and mediocrity, as a nation. At this point, any push-back from the states will be met with threats of cutting off federal funding. How will states counter such threats, and how many will simply buckle under?

What do you think will happen?

Replies

  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,025 Senior Member
    You forgot the part where newly elected Over-the-Hillary appoints O/bummer as a Supreme court Judge, and all the "Refugees" that Sweden is deporting will be coming here. And all illegal aliens will be given a driver's license, an unlimited SNAP card and the right to vote.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,650 Senior Member
    Yeah, well, I'm talking about after all that. I just gave a few easy examples.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,727 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    What do you think will happen?

    Ammunition will be $20 per round for .22. Centrefire cartridges will be $40 each.
    Your CCW will only entitle you to 'carry' within the confines of your personal residence during the hours of darkness.
    Daylight home invasions will be the norm.
    State Governors will be appointed by the Federal Govt.
    The Koran will be required reading for all schools.
    Sharia law will replace the Constitution.
    Guys like you and me will sigh wistfully when we go to the beach and see women wearing full body Burkas.
    Miley Cyrus will be burned at the stake, then stoned.
    Smoke from the fires burning all the American flags will cause global temperatures to rise.
    Fatalities from animal attacks will be greater than those caused by automobiles due to the ban on hunting.

    Oh, the richest person in the USA will be someone called Muhumad who got the Federal contract to supply the govt mandated prayer mats.............
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Ammunition will be $20 per round for .22. Centrefire cartridges will be $40 each.
    Your CCW will only entitle you to 'carry' within the confines of your personal residence during the hours of darkness.
    Daylight home invasions will be the norm.
    State Governors will be appointed by the Federal Govt.
    The Koran will be required reading for all schools.
    Sharia law will replace the Constitution.
    Guys like you and me will sigh wistfully when we go to the beach and see women wearing full body Burkas.
    Miley Cyrus will be burned at the stake, then stoned.
    Smoke from the fires burning all the American flags will cause global temperatures to rise.
    Fatalities from animal attacks will be greater than those caused by automobiles due to the ban on hunting.

    Oh, the richest person in the USA will be someone called Muhumad who got the Federal contract to supply the govt mandated prayer mats.............

    That's a pretty good summation Alec, I agree that ain't far from the truth!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Not sure other than Oh-care will never be repealed, even if The Pantsuit loses and a republican is driving the bus.
    That genies done out da bottle.

    This.

    Even with both houses, the Presidency, and a majority on the SC, Obamacare is here to stay.
    It's because I hate Trump.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I don't agree, much like a sloppy birds nest of mud and sticks, its final destiny is to crumble and fall apart, in spite of how much you try to patch it up, It will eventually fall apart completely as unworkable.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,407 Senior Member
    History will repeat itself July 4th. 2017! This time we'll have something better than a Brown Bess to light 'em up with!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Maybe the Democrats = Zombies ?

    Zombiecrats ?
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,025 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Ammunition will be $20 per round for .22. Centrefire cartridges will be $40 each.
    Your CCW will only entitle you to 'carry' within the confines of your personal residence during the hours of darkness.
    Daylight home invasions will be the norm.
    State Governors will be appointed by the Federal Govt.
    The Koran will be required reading for all schools.
    Sharia law will replace the Constitution.
    Guys like you and me will sigh wistfully when we go to the beach and see women wearing full body Burkas.
    Miley Cyrus will be burned at the stake, then stoned.
    Smoke from the fires burning all the American flags will cause global temperatures to rise.
    Fatalities from animal attacks will be greater than those caused by automobiles due to the ban on hunting.

    Oh, the richest person in the USA will be someone called Muhumad who got the Federal contract to supply the govt mandated prayer mats.............

    I agree with all your examples except the one on Miley Cyrus. She would already be stoned before being burned at the stake.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,650 Senior Member
    Actually, what I was hoping to discuss were the things that the states can and will do to re-assert their sovereignty. There are some tough governors out there in states that have some clout, if they have the nerve to risk their careers to save the Constitution. Liberal governors, and mayors of big cities, have defied federal mandates numerous times and gotten away with it. It's time for constitutionalists to consider that path, in case the coming elections go wrong.
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    You forgot the part where newly elected Over-the-Hillary appoints O/bummer as a Supreme court Judge, and all the "Refugees" that Sweden is deporting will be coming here. And all illegal aliens will be given a driver's license, an unlimited SNAP card and the right to vote.

    ...don't forget that there will probably be 2-3 SCOTUS appointments in the next admin, & Eric Holder was part of the Clinton machine before Obama, he's probably already got fitted for a 'Robe', not necessarily because Hillary likes him, more likely because they both have 'dirt' on each other. Their big problem is the see the 'world' as Chicago/ D.C., & "fly-over country" is irrelevant to them. They don't seem to realize that it will be like a hornets' nest, that is to say, not much noise or problems till you step on it...
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,737 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Let's pretend that the worst case scenario happens politically - that a leftist gets elected President and they gain a majority in Congress. Two Supreme Court justices retire or die. Obamacare survives and creeps inevitably toward a single payer system with the government being the final arbiter of who gets medical care and who pays for it. The illegal Iran 'treaty' stays in place, ISIS and Al Qaeda proliferates, China begins to threaten Taiwan, Russia continues its expansionist plans, and the stock market spirals downward.

    Short of revolution, what will the red states do to counter it? Obviously, the blue states will be on board with the feds until it's too late to stop the transformation into classic socialism and mediocrity, as a nation. At this point, any push-back from the states will be met with threats of cutting off federal funding. How will states counter such threats, and how many will simply buckle under?

    What do you think will happen?

    Regardless of who enteres the white house in January of '17, the following will probably happen prior to the following election and there isn't a thing anyone can do about it:

    The stock market will crash plunging us into another round of deep recession. Stock prices have been largely overblown for a while. They've been propped up by easy money from the fed. Prices only go up when there is a greater sucker to pass them on to, and we're about out of suckers. Same goes for all sorts of bonds which have been manipulated by artificially low fed interest rates such there the rates no longer reflect the real risk involved. Crashing of the markets will also crush pension funds right at the time when boomers are starting to retire and need to begin drawing from them. It will be an absolute mess.

    Housing prices will drop because baby boomers have passed their peak earnings and will begin to downsize their dwellings and will need the cash to make up for shrinking pensions and crashing 401ks. There aren't enough genXers and millenials with the assets and incomes required to afford them so prices, especially among mid range housing ($200-$500k) will drop all over the country.

    Low oil prices will continue to absolutely decimate the domestic oil industry. Loan defaults and bankruptcies will spread across the industry. Eventually prices will rebound as supply crashes, but not before much of the industry is wiped out and rebuilding and restarting production will be more challenging.

    ISIS will continue to be a threat, and Russia and Iran are likely to continue to take a larger roll in fighting them at least in the middle east. This is a good thing. They are a more direct threat to their interests.

    The threat from China is likely to decline, at least economically. The country is riddled with bad debt and overcapacity. They're headed for a hard landing unless their leaders can find a way to magically make trillions and trillions of bad debt disappear (which I wouldn't necessarily put past them). They're probably headed for an extended period of slow or negative economic growth as they deal with these internal domestic issues. How they react to this in the international sphere is unclear, but some regional bullying wouldn't be out of the question.

    Russia is also headed for a world of hurt domestically due to low oil prices crushing their budget. That said with Putin, you're right they're likely to focus the public's attention on external issues and may be active in former USSR states and the middle east.

    As to what can be done? Not much by states, politicians, or frankly individuals. On the foreign policy front I lean isolationist so unless there's an obvious thing to do, we continue to do what we can to protect our allies when necessary, strategically target isis when possible, and stay out of the rest of it as much as possible. Domestically/economically, duck and cover. The problems we're facing have been brewing for decades, not much that can be done to magically fix them. Just going to take time and pain to work through the cycle. Individually, you can do what you can to protect yourself and your family and make it through the best you can. Most of our parents and grand parents made it through the depression, we all made it through 2007/8/9, and we'll all make it through the next big recession.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    Re: Let's play what if...
    Uhhh, let's not.









    T R U M P
    Let's play a game where we win.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,037 Senior Member
    Under that scenario. . .

    There is certainly an increasing sense of division between the red and blue states. Illinois is ONLY blue because of Cook County. Even CA is pretty much red if you get rid of the greater LA and SF areas

    I could certainly see reaching a point of "we wash our hands of you", and de-unify the country. If that point is reached, the red states (countries now) will be able to charge the blue states (countries also) WHATEEEEEEVER they want for food.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Under that scenario. . .

    There is certainly an increasing sense of division between the red and blue states. Illinois is ONLY blue because of Cook County. Even CA is pretty much red if you get rid of the greater LA and SF areas

    I could certainly see reaching a point of "we wash our hands of you", and de-unify the country. If that point is reached, the red states (countries now) will be able to charge the blue states (countries also) WHATEEEEEEVER they want for food.

    Being from Texas I like your scenario better than Alf's!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,737 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Under that scenario. . .

    There is certainly an increasing sense of division between the red and blue states. Illinois is ONLY blue because of Cook County. Even CA is pretty much red if you get rid of the greater LA and SF areas

    I could certainly see reaching a point of "we wash our hands of you", and de-unify the country. If that point is reached, the red states (countries now) will be able to charge the blue states (countries also) WHATEEEEEEVER they want for food.
    I know you're being mostly facetious, but raw agriculture is a whooping 1% of GDP. The full sector including restaurants and all other value added food and beverage related industry is under 5%. Good luck with that. And if you try raising prices too much, remember it's a global market, easy enough to buy most raw agricultural products overseas. Lots of fruits and veggies come that way anyway. Like it or not the vast majority of economic activity requires big, ugly, dense, cities. Good luck surviving without them.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,650 Senior Member
    Alf,

    That's a pretty dismal outlook you project. I do appreciate your participation in the thread, and I think you are an intelligent guy. But, I don't accept your statistics and projections, mainly because you are a lifelong liberal with special skills in digging up whatever numbers and scenarios further the socialist cause. Like all propaganda, there has to be an element of truth in there somewhere to make it believable and scary. I can't refute any of it, but I believe that unleashed American entrepreneurship can reverse the downward spiral, if it's done soon enough. Whether or not a turnover at the top levels of government will be enough, we won't know till we've tried it, but big government is an obvious dismal failure. The obvious way to start trying to fix what is broken is a return to a system that was always intended to leave the people alone to prosper, or fail, according to their own ability and work ethics.

    If I believed your projections, I would probably vote for Trump, as much as I distrust him, in the hope that saving the economy would actually be something he would know how to do. Until then, I'll go with a Constitutionalist, because it isn't just about the economy, if the country is to be healthy over the long term.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Lets use NAFTA as a rallying point, how can you have entrepreneurship if the Government keeps making policies that cause businesses to leave the US ? along similar lines, the raising of minimum wage has caused many of Seattle's restaurants to close well before the law goes into effect.

    Our current POTUS is a so called Constitutionalist, and we can see how well that is working for us.

    Our country cannot be healthy economically if the Government keeps killing off legal businesses with stupid laws.

    If we get rid of our nations stupid hodgepodge of contradicting gun laws, it would pave the way to a real industrial boom and more jobs, as long as we allow pie in the sky liberals to run our lives, our Country is doomed to fail !!!!!
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,104 Senior Member
    You forgot the part where newly elected Over-the-Hillary appoints O/bummer as a Supreme court Judge, and all the "Refugees" that Sweden is deporting will be coming here. And all illegal aliens will be given a driver's license, an unlimited SNAP card and the right to vote.

    If Hillary gets elected and appoints Obama as a Supreme Court judge, it will truly be their playhouse.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,650 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Our current POTUS is a so called Constitutionalist, and we can see how well that is working for us.

    He is purported to be a Constitutional scholar...by the same folks who told us Joe Biden was a genius, John Kerry was a war hero, Bill Clinton was the first black president, and Hilary is the smartest woman in the world. He has proven himself to be an anti-Constitutionalist, using whatever he learned about it those few days he actually attended classes to undermine it. Alinski wrote his constitution.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    So back to square one, I remember the shift to a so called global economy as it was taught in school, We were isolationists, and consumer oriented as far as consuming our own produced goods, then comes the economists that say we should buy & trade on a global / foreign market and have a huge market share as well as stimulate the larger global economy.

    Yet all that accomplished was to trash our Countries economy and lose jobs at home, so we have cheaper goods, high inflation and unemployment and Constitutionalist Presidents that do not protect the Constitution, so maybe we need to return to the successful policies of the past, even if it means ultra expensive technology, once it is not being produced by cheap slave labor.

    Also, China is not doing badly as far as debt, they privatized much if not most of their industry, so if all of China went bankrupt tomorrow, what would happen ?
    Absolutely nothing ! the Chinese Government would glady take over again, disavow any and all foreign debts, or pay them off over the next few thousand years and the U.S. would look very foolish, China controls a good share of International banking.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,737 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »

    Also, China is not doing badly as far as debt, they privatized much if not most of their industry, so if all of China went bankrupt tomorrow, what would happen ?
    Absolutely nothing ! the Chinese Government would glady take over again, disavow any and all foreign debts, or pay them off over the next few thousand years and the U.S. would look very foolish, China controls a good share of International banking.

    National debt isn't the problem, it's "private debt". Estimates are they've added $21 Trillion in private debt since just 2007. That's a massive debt explosion. Much of that debt has gone into things that will never return enough to pay back the loans (like excess manufacturing capacity and luxury high rise condos). A recent estimate was that 21% of the $28 trillion in outstanding debt is bad.

    Now the advantage they have is the government can basically step in, take over the banks and sweep all the bad debt under the rug like they did a couple decades ago when they ran into a similar, but much smaller problem. More than likely the outcome will be closer to what happened in Japan where massive debt fueled growth spurt resulted in a financial crisis and a few decades of stagnation.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
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