David Petzal of Field and Stream

breamfisherbreamfisher Senior MemberPosts: 12,602 Senior Member
Looks like he didn't learn from Metcalf. Or maybe he did....

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/robert-farago/field-stream-goes-full-fudd/

Link to the Field and Stream article:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/the-gun-nuts/shot-show-2016-part-i
Overkill is underrated.
«13

Replies

  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Petzal's MO is the curmudgeon. Editorial is read more if it's controversial.

    I wasn't at the show but I suspect there's some grains of truth in his critical diatribe.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,253 Senior Member
    http://www.gunnuts.net/2016/01/28/david-petzal-doesnt-seem-to-like-change-very-much/

    Another good writeup. Some people just cannot adapt to change. The culture has changed. Not everyone has the chance to hunt, but everyone has a chance to be a victim of violent crime. He just has nit gotten the memo through his walnut and blue steel colored glasses
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,602 Senior Member
    Wonder how Petzal feels about the fact that his beloved bolt-action rifles only became popular after they were adopted by major militaries of the world?

    Manufacturers market what's selling, and make what sells profitably. That's why we can buy newly-manufactured Savage 99s and Colts Woodsmans.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,253 Senior Member
    Wonder how Petzal feels about the fact that his beloved bolt-action rifles only became popular after they were adopted by major militaries of the world?

    Manufacturers market what's selling, and make what sells profitably. That's why we can buy newly-manufactured Savage 99s and Colts Woodsmans.

    And displaced lever actions by returning combat veterans that used those bolt actions to kill people.

    Hell, the lever action was a military gun as well.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,602 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    http://www.gunnuts.net/2016/01/28/david-petzal-doesnt-seem-to-like-change-very-much/

    Another good writeup. Some people just cannot adapt to change. The culture has changed. Not everyone has the chance to hunt, but everyone has a chance to be a victim of violent crime. He just has nit gotten the memo through his walnut and blue steel colored glasses
    Good point. Most of the younger folks I see at the public, county-operated range are fielding "tactical" firearms. Not hunting firearms. Many of them don't even hunt. Looked at nationally, the numbers of hunters and fishermen are decreasing, with other outdoor activities on the rise. It's a changing culture and changing attitudes about the intrinsic value of different activities and the associated time commitments. I would think that Mr. Petzal would realize that. Anyone in the fish and wildlife management business should know the trends.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,602 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    And displaced lever actions by returning combat veterans that used those bolt actions to kill people.

    Hell, the lever action was a military gun as well.
    Yep. So were single-action revolvers, then double-actions, then autoloaders....
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,253 Senior Member
    Good point. Most of the younger folks I see at the public, county-operated range are fielding "tactical" firearms. Not hunting firearms. Many of them don't even hunt. Looked at nationally, the numbers of hunters and fishermen are decreasing, with other outdoor activities on the rise. It's a changing culture and changing attitudes about the intrinsic value of different activities and the associated time commitments. I would think that Mr. Petzal would realize that. Anyone in the fish and wildlife management business should know the trends.

    Heck- I am not young or part of the new generation of shooters, but I got into hunting because I was into guns first. Guns were fun and cool. Hunting was something you do with fun and cool guns
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,015 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    And displaced lever actions by returning combat veterans that used those bolt actions to kill people.

    Hell, the lever action was a military gun as well.

    Hell yeah, everything was military at one time. I really think Early pegged it, Petzal is a curmudgeon. He's been talking about bolt and lever guns so long that's all he really knows or cares about anymore and anything new or different is offensive to him.

    But Petzal's attitude isn't new, AND it doesn't necessarily trigger a red flag in me that reeks of Anti Gunner. I had a good friend and gun mentor years back who is no longer with us, make statements about para military stuff back in the 90s. Lots of these old school guys have been and are a little spooked by the trend to ARs and AKs and anything else of interest that's not traditionally sporting. Yet they are really no more anti gun than the rest of us.

    AND, Petzal writes for one of the most leftest leaning gun rags out there, Field and Stream They're eaten up with it. Actually Petzal is sort of a Maverick within his peers there. He's more right leaning than the management and about 75% of its staff.

    Also, Petzal, no matter his political views, which I don't really think are that far left of most of ours, not withstanding, is a very knowledgeable expert on rifles and firearms in general. I take anything else he says with a grain of salt and enjoy his gun writings. He's one of my favorites as a hunting rifle expert.

    And finally, I can't change anything about him, or for anybody here for that matter. I just take what I want from his writings and leave what I think is BS or something I don't need. I look at gun writers in the same light as actors. I don't pay much attention to their politics.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,080 Senior Member
    The trend toward militarization of the firearms industry is probably exactly what's needed at the moment. Varmint hunting is likely to get very popular soon, but the varmint infestation is worst in the area of Washington DC and the critters wear 3-piece suits and have a definite affinity for expensive liquor, vulnerable interns (male and female), and other people's money. Once the herd is thinned appropriately, maybe us sportsmen can get back to hunting 4-legged game!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,245 Senior Member
    This kinda falls along the Elmer Fudd line where older sportsmen do not really get riled up with the new gun control targets. Just wait until their deer rifles are condemned as "sniper rifles" and the Wing Master pumps are "assault shotguns" because that is what some military have or are using. Someone needs to look beyond the minute and see the possibilities of such things in the future.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,173 Senior Member
    Seems to me like this time, that guy felt like a stranger for the 1st. time; what he know and understood is gone, making him feel uncomfortable. Good friend of mine in his early '40s, former local Navy officer, target shooter and product manager of our local version of a B.P.S. was there, and didn't felt as walking through a "G.I. Joe wannabee" exposition, although recognizes that ARs are at least a good part of the future civilian and state rifle platforms. Before this show, he was a hard-core "walnut & steel" fan, but came back admitting that due to its versatility and the huge amount of products and accessories being made for those rifles, he's now an "AR man" and will soon be looking for at least a couple of them in .308 & .223.

    Time has changed....
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,015 Senior Member
    Antonio wrote: »
    Seems to me like this time, that guy felt like a stranger for the 1st. time; what he know and understood is gone, making him feel uncomfortable. Good friend of mine in his early '40s, former local Navy officer, target shooter and product manager of our local version of a B.P.S. was there, and didn't felt as walking through a "G.I. Joe wannabee" exposition, although recognizes that ARs are at least a good part of the future civilian and state rifle platforms. Before this show, he was a hard-core "walnut & steel" fan, but came back admitting that due to its versatility and the huge amount of products and accessories being made for those rifles, he's now an "AR man" and will soon be looking for at least a couple of them in .308 & .223.

    Time has changed....

    I think you're right on in your assessment Antonio, you pretty well nailed it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 5,965 Senior Member
    Petzal has been a blowhard for years. He owns an AR or two and has written about them several times on his blog.

    When he writes about hunting and target shooting he makes a few good points the rest is whining crap.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,278 Senior Member
    Interesting read. Aside from thinking he perhaps swiped his vocabulary from the "Left Behind" series, I'm not sure of the what/why he's grousing about. Don't like "Practical-Tactical"? That's fine, don't buy it. If people get off on thinking they're badass with an EBR, so what? Like Snake says, everything was military at one time - people are going to want "the best", what the professionals use; so a lot of them are going to buy "tactical". Hell, the blurb for my range bag talks about "Mission specific" configurations - the only "mission" I'm going on is to the local shooting range, but hey! They're right, I can configure the bag for that day's "mission" and the guns I'm planning on shooting that day! OoooRAH! :roll2:

    I tend to like walnut and blued steel myself, but my nephew has an EBR that's mighty sweet!

    He probably feels the way he feels for reasons similar to how I feel about a lot of the over done technology in cars, sewing machines, and certainly cell fones. Too expensive and limited "added value". At least an EBR is reliable and will still be operational in 20 years, which can't really be said about technology. :tooth:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,015 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Interesting read. Aside from thinking he perhaps swiped his vocabulary from the "Left Behind" series, I'm not sure of the what/why he's grousing about. Don't like "Practical-Tactical"? That's fine, don't buy it. If people get off on thinking they're badass with an EBR, so what? Like Snake says, everything was military at one time - people are going to want "the best", what the professionals use; so a lot of them are going to buy "tactical". Hell, the blurb for my range bag talks about "Mission specific" configurations - the only "mission" I'm going on is to the local shooting range, but hey! They're right, I can configure the bag for that day's "mission" and the guns I'm planning on shooting that day! OoooRAH! :roll2:

    I tend to like walnut and blued steel myself, but my nephew has an EBR that's mighty sweet!

    He probably feels the way he feels for reasons similar to how I feel about a lot of the over done technology in cars, sewing machines, and certainly cell fones. Too expensive and limited "added value". At least an EBR is reliable and will lusbe operational in 20 years, which can't really be said about technology. :tooth:

    Zorba, there's another plus about shooting ARs and AKs and such, they will do it all. If you want to feel like Rambo or Buck Rogers for, blacken your face with camo make up, and put a knife between your teeth, plus let you kill whatever game you wish. It's all good. And yes, Petzal has ARs and AKs, I've read about him shooting them. He likes em too, but I think he's referring to the trends here and he's still in love with his traditional rifles and I think he's worried that the new wave will eventually make his grail guns a thing of the past, as I sometimes am also. But I'm not to the point of whining about ARs too much yet, in fact, I'm only whining because I don't yet own one.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,330 Senior Member
    People still read Field & Stream?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    People still read Field & Stream?

    I did for a year or so. Didn't really care for it.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,866 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    People still read Field & Stream?

    I quit reading it primarily because of Dave Petzal....he's always been kind of a (insert vulgar reference to male genitalia)
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,092 Senior Member
    Two words: "So what?"
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 19,330 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Two words: "So what?"

    And this is my second question.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,593 Senior Member
    I haven't read that worthless rag in over 30 years. Cost way too much money for maybe one interesting article, and 2/3 of the magazine was advertisements. Petzal is a dinosaur living in the 1950s and doesn't have the ability to see that the firearms industry has changed in the last 50-60 years.

    The market now is for people who probably don't hunt big game, but also don't like to be hunted on the streets and in their homes. They are mostly buying with SD/HD in mind more than hunting big game and birds.
    If a Liberal throws a hand grenade at you, pick it up, pull the pin, and throw it back at them.



  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,686 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    People still read Field & Stream?

    I like the pictures and the last page guy, Bill Heavey.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,015 Senior Member
    I first got the magazine because it was a gift certificate from one of my daughter's and Son in Laws. I wasn't impressed but about the time that first subscription was about to expire, I got an email offer for that magazine from M.D. Anderson Hospital in Houston for a donation for children's cancer research. You get the magazine cheap and donate about $48 a year. I've been doing that for about 8 years but now they informed me for some reason they can't give me Field and Stream anymore and are substituting Outdoor Life. It makes me no difference. I do it mainly for the donation. My real gun rags are American Rifleman and TSRA.

    Other than reading Petzal now and then I mostly looked at the pictures and adds.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 6,816 Senior Member
    I'll open by stating I generally do enjoy David Petzal and his plain, curmudgeonly style in F&S. Hell, I am in the midst of a 3-year subscription to their magazine and find myself agreeing with him on quite a few points. I even got a comment published in there last year based on one of pieces.

    As it relates to his gripe about SHOT and the overwhelming AR/tactical theme this year, I spoke with N454Casull during his time and there before this controversy came about. He, too, said that there was a pretty insane overload of that stuff, and both of us agreed that the political climate that Mr. Petzal mentions was the likely driver for this: make it verboten (or at least threatento) and you create a massive market.

    I think Mr. Petzal really was not trying to undermine the AR market so much as express his annoyance with the lack of cariety in his traditional literary "marketplace." It really didn't come off like a guy *trying* to make AR sound exclsuively like man-killing weapons of crazy people so much as it sounded like a guy who failed to realize how easily his comments could be exploited by those who care to do just that.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,242 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Heck- I am not young or part of the new generation of shooters, but I got into hunting because I was into guns first. Guns were fun and cool. Hunting was something you do with fun and cool guns

    What he said. I LOVE owning guns. Hunting is fun but it's really mostly an excuse to buy more guns.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,278 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I LOVE owning guns.
    Really? We hadn't noticed, what with that tiny collection you have. :rotflmao:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,242 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    I'll open by stating I generally do enjoy David Petzal and his plain, curmudgeonly style in F&S. Hell, I am in the midst of a 3-year subscription to their magazine and find myself agreeing with him on quite a few points. I even got a comment published in there last year based on one of pieces.

    As it relates to his gripe about SHOT and the overwhelming AR/tactical theme this year, I spoke with N454Casull during his time and there before this controversy came about. He, too, said that there was a pretty insane overload of that stuff, and both of us agreed that the political climate that Mr. Petzal mentions was the likely driver for this: make it cerbotten (or at least threatento) and you create a massive market.

    I think Mr. Petzal really was not trying to undermine the AR market so much as express his annoyance with the lack of cariety in his traditional literary "marketplace." It really didn't come off like a guy *trying* to make AR sound exclsuively like man-killing weapns of crazy people so much as it sounded like a guy who failed to realize how easily his comments could be exploited by those who care to do just that.

    The fun part of being a writer is that you get to express opinions completely devoid of any accountability to enterprise goals, P/Ls, revenue and market drivers. The SHOT show will have more of what (drum roll.........) sells more. It's called capitalism. Rant on Mr. Petzal, it's your personal opinion and you are affecting the market about.... well, you are not at all... :zzzz:
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 6,816 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    I haven't read that worthless rag in over 30 years. Cost way too much money for maybe one interesting article, and 2/3 of the magazine was advertisements. Petzal is a dinosaur living in the 1950s and doesn't have the ability to see that the firearms industry has changed in the last 50-60 years.

    The market now is for people who probably don't hunt big game, but also don't like to be hunted on the streets and in their homes. They are mostly buying with SD/HD in mind more than hunting big game and birds.

    I find that he does pine for the old days a bit, but he also doesn't hesitate to air out obsolescence. For instance, someone will write to him about putting a cherished, old scope on a new gun purchase, to which he will bluntly inform them is a stupid thing to do considering that yesterday's glass doesn't hold a candle to what we have now, that it will artificially limit what is likely a very capable gun, and to stop being so cheap. He also speak worlds of good about how great modern rifles shoot compared to what he grew up with in the field. So, yeah, can be a tool who gets annoyed by some modern stuff, I think his genuine shtick is really more about being "the grumpy old guy" more than anything else.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    The fun part of being a writer is that you get to express opinions completely devoid of any accountability to enterprise goals, P/Ls, revenue and market drivers. The SHOT show will have more of what (drum roll.........) sells more. It's called capitalism. Rant on Mr. Petzal, it's your personal opinion and you are affecting the market about.... well, you are not at all... :zzzz:
    Well, in one sense, yes, but in the other, no. As you stated, his opinion has about zero impact on the market he gripes about...but it's people vehement love or hatred for what he says that keeps the magazine afloat (at least in part). Howard Stern said it best when [to paraphrase] he stated that, in entertainment, you don't need to right, you just need to have an opinion. In the case of his publication, if his comments lead to a nosedive in readership, he will be held accountable.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,015 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    The fun part of being a writer is that you get to express opinions completely devoid of any accountability to enterprise goals, P/Ls, revenue and market drivers. The SHOT show will have more of what (drum roll.........) sells more. It's called capitalism. Rant on Mr. Petzal, it's your personal opinion and you are affecting the market about.... well, you are not at all... :zzzz:

    Dang boss, you got a way with words! That's a pretty good summation.
    But I don't think he really expects to affect the market as much as this was just what some of us do on here so well, he was just having a bit of a RANT!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 12,602 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    I'll open by stating I generally do enjoy David Petzal and his plain, curmudgeonly style in F&S. Hell, I am in the midst of a 3-year subscription to their magazine and find myself agreeing with him on quite a few points. I even got a comment published in there last year based on one of pieces.

    As it relates to his gripe about SHOT and the overwhelming AR/tactical theme this year, I spoke with N454Casull during his time and there before this controversy came about. He, too, said that there was a pretty insane overload of that stuff, and both of us agreed that the political climate that Mr. Petzal mentions was the likely driver for this: make it verboten (or at least threatento) and you create a massive market.

    I think Mr. Petzal really was not trying to undermine the AR market so much as express his annoyance with the lack of cariety in his traditional literary "marketplace." It really didn't come off like a guy *trying* to make AR sound exclsuively like man-killing weapons of crazy people so much as it sounded like a guy who failed to realize how easily his comments could be exploited by those who care to do just that.
    If that is the case (and it could be) then Petzal wasn't thinking well when he wrote this article, and his editor or whoever allowed him to post the article should be held accountable.

    From Mr. Petzal's article...

    Second paragraph:
    This year, Range Day sounded like the Battle of Dak To, or perhaps Fallujah, with the distinctive pop-pop-pop of full-auto fire, which was extremely popular amongst all the SEAL wannabes. Indeed, this was symbolic of the whole show, which has now become so heavily militarized that you have to look fairly hard for something designed to kill animals instead of people.
    That's some pretty loaded language there....

    Third paragraph:
    For me, the most interesting part of Range Day was an attack-dog demonstration put on by one of the local police departments. Their handler, who carried more firepower than the entire 1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler, put a pair of giant Schnauzers through their paces.
    1. Never good to invoke Nazi Germany. Especially when you're discussing someone on "your side."
    2. What is he talking about with the excessive firepower? Why does it even matter?

    Fifth paragraph:
    The forces acting upon the gun industry are Armageddon, for which we are all tooling up, and our Peerless Leader, who has sold more firearms than even Bubba Clinton, and The Horror That Is Hillary, who is lurking in our future like the Wicked Witch of the West. Everyone who makes guns is selling everything they can produce, which stifles the need for innovation and takes the emphasis off firearms that would not be useful during the Latter Days.
    Saying the market is being driven by preppers might not be a grand idea. They don't have a great rep for a lot of folks.
    Second: who's to say it's stifling innovation?
    I do applaud him for the jabs at the Clintons and Obama. Kudos.

    Seventh full paragraph:

    I saw no booth babes. Doug Painter, who used to be president of NSSF and knows whereof he speaks, assured me there that were booth babes and that they were of very high quality, but I didn’t see any. Indeed, dogs seem to have replaced Booth Babes. There were attack dogs, and bomb-sniffing dogs, and all sorts of tactical dogs, their eyes alight with a terrible intelligence.

    Regarding booth babes: from the pics I've seen, they were there, but on the other hand, even they are somewhat of a divisive issue.
    And regarding the dogs: he seems not to like them. What kinda sportsman doesn't like a good working dog?




    I just wonder how much thought really went into this. Or maybe he wanted to generate some press for himself?
    Overkill is underrated.
«13
Sign In or Register to comment.