Home Main Category Personal Defense
«1

Replies

  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Wonder if those 2 men had a background check run?
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    Is it legal to use unloaded open carry as bait. Just say'n
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Nomadac wrote: »

    Like the famous late Texas Longhorn Football Coach Darrel K Royal used to say about passing the football. "Three things can happen and two of em are bad."

    With open carry the bad things are not the same as with the forward pass in football, but they are very negative and can ruin the person carrying's day and even get him killed. For one, the open carrier is probably the first one to get shot if some scum bag opens up on the crowd. Two, as in this example, there's always some slime ball that will steal your carry piece if given the chance, and three, you don't garner the respect of near as many people as you would think you would. Most people by nature just figure you're showing off. In fact, unlike the forward pass, I can't think of one single benefit to open carrying, other than we do it because we CAN! And that's not a benefit. It just satisfies our ego more than anything.

    I like the open carry law, for a couple reasons, one: if we make a mistake, say drop our gun on the floor of the grocery store, or at the football game we raise our hands to cheer and our shirt rides up, we won't be busted for having a gun unconcealed. And another one on this same line and one that's more likely to happen to me, I like to strap on my .357 when I go hunting because of snakes or to finish off an animal, and two times I have strapped that gun on in its holster and forgot and gone in and establishment openly armed. If a cop would have been there I would'a been toast.

    Also, something within me says I have a right to do it and no libtard government law can stop me if I so choose. However in practice I will just try to subdue my passions and keep it concealed. To me keeping your trump card concealed assures it is a more useful tool when the time comes and need arises to use it.

    Oh and in case you don't know what's good and bad about a pass in football, according to DKR, 1, the pass is caught (Good), 2, You drop the pass (Not so good, and maybe bad), or 3, it can be intercepted (Always bad). Two of the three are not real good.

    But then again, Darrel Kenneth Royal did use the pass on occasion. He won the Big Shootout between Number One in the Nation Texas against Number Two Arkansas in 1969 and won the 1969 Cotton Bowl against up until then Number one Notre Dame and the National Championship because of the forward pass. He also won the 1965 Orange Bowl against Joe Namath and Number One (At the Time) Alabama, with a few key passes by reserve QB Jim Hudson and one long touch down pass from Hudson to George Sauer Jr. So the pass wasn't totally bad for him, Royal. He just wasn't known to over use it so nobody expected it when he did.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,146 Senior Member
    104RFAST wrote: »
    Is it legal to use unloaded open carry as bait. Just say'n
    If you do not plan on using another gun for defense
    then yes.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I don't like exposing anything of high value to public observation, and inevitably, temptation.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    But its a gun !!!

    Have you heard the opinions of some folks here, on those folks that open carry ?

    I do not open carry, however, the law that allows it, is a great thing, I do not judge people that do open carry, with a small exception, the ones that refuse to present ID to LE when asked reasonably, tying up limited Police resourses.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,746 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    And on that same day, thousands of people legally open carried their guns without incident. Many of them probably prevented crime just by exercising their right. We should not be using single, statistically insignificant episodes of crime to help the antis erode our rights. That is already the job of the other side.
    Agreed

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    I don't open carry, or at least rarely. I have on ocassion gone somewhere not exactly concealed. Never been bothered, not even sure I've been noticed. I'm seeing it more and more around here, at the grocery store, walmart, eating estblishments and don't usually think twice.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    There is one good side to open carry, if enough people realize the huge amount of people that carry, and then realize no blood baths have occured, maybe we can get rid of all these excessive gun laws have now.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Guns are like penises. They are fun to show to select people. They are fun to show on the internet. Otherwise, they need to stay in your pants-- out of sight. If you are going to take it out and play with it, you should do that in private.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I got a lecture somewhat like that as a kid, it was really embarrassing.........



    Penises are fun to show to select people, after you get married !
    Otherwise, they need to stay in your pants-- out of sight.
    If you are going to take it out and play with it, you should do that in private.
    Never ever play with yourself ! you will go blind ! and you will burn in hell forever !
    Otherwise, they need to stay in your pants-- out of sight.

    I did not follow that advice.. :jester:

    Funny thing is, I really did not think much about penises until after that lecture, then I got really curious and could think of nothing else, my thinking being, if I am being told NOT to,
    Then it must really be pretty good !!!
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    The problem here is not that he was open carrying; the problem is that he was living in Code White. Absolutely no awareness of what was going on around him. There should have been no reason that those two got that close to him without him noticing, even from behind.

    He would have lost his gun if it was carried IWB under a parka.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Guns are like penises. They are fun to show to select people. They are fun to show on the internet. Otherwise, they need to stay in your pants-- out of sight. If you are going to take it out and play with it, you should do that in private.

    Please don't give Chris any ideas
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    Please don't give Chris any ideas

    CPJ has a constant 3 ring circus of ideas going on !
    Coals to Newcastle !

    :jester:
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,148 Senior Member
    One would think that if you're going to open carry, you should be thinking about a holster with a high level of retention and have some thoughts somewhere back in your lizard brain about weapon retention (what you're going to do if someone makes a grab for your gun). This is the reason I carry a very sharp knife on my support side...(Not that I open carry much anymore...It was fine for pasture patrol, but if I'm around other people I prefer to keep it covered up)
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    I've long maintained the same opinion on OC.

    I liken open carry to responsible narcotics usage.... There shouldn't be ANY laws saying that you're not allowed to, but I reserve the right to think that anyone who does it on any sort of regular basis, is a complete frickin moron.
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,435 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    The problem here is not that he was open carrying; the problem is that he was living in Code White. Absolutely no awareness of what was going on around him.

    Dang straight.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • ArmoredmanArmoredman Member Posts: 362 Member
    I open carried legally in AZ from age 16 until 1994, when we got our first CCW law. The only issues I had was being asked to leave places of business who hadn't bothered posting signs, like the old Park Mall. Interestingly enough, every place I was asked to leave from has either gone out of business or is under new management. Purely coincidental, of course.
    We have had legal open carry for over 100 years, works OK, but I do rather like to carry concealed instead.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,578 Senior Member
    I have to admit, anytime I see someone open carrying............my first thought is........"Ok, how would I go about taking that gun?"

    It's just a natural response for me. I immediately determine the retention of the holster and situational awareness of the owner.

    Now, of course I've never taken one from Joe Schmoe..........but it doesn't mean I don't assess the situation.

    Hell, I do it with cops too. Except, for cops, I figure out how to take EVERYTHING on their belt. Being the target rich environment that it usually is and I teach this to them in edged weapons classes. I will own their belt! It is a physical impossibility to protect everything on there. The more you carry, the harder it is.

    If I do this, who's to say the average dirtbag doesn't as well?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,578 Senior Member
    The flip side, If I know that the holster is a Level 2 or 3 and that it would be too difficult for me to attempt to take, I can simply prevent the OWNER from drawing it in various ways. While I take care of business by other means.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I have to admit, anytime I see someone open carrying............my first thought is........"Ok, how would I go about taking that gun?"

    :that:

    Zee wrote: »


    If I do this, who's to say the average dirtbag doesn't as well?


    I think that this is something that many law abiding folks can't or simply WON'T wrap their head around. Yes, there are tons of incompetent criminals out there, but there are also some very competent ones as well.....and when it comes to being in a bad situation, they're probably much better at it than you are.




    I'm almost positive that it was Jayhawker who posted that while he was still in Law Enforcement in Michigan, he went on a raid and noted that the bad guys that they were raiding, had the same gun magazines and literature on their coffee table that Jayhawker had on his back at home.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    A Freind told me an account of a time he had chased a suspect into a tenement, the suspect managed to get behind him and get Pat's service revolver and was now holding him at gunpoint, Pat was able to draw his High Standard .22 Magnum Derringer / wallet holster and help the suspect assume room temperature.

    There have been times that attempting to grab a Police Officers sidearm went rather poorly for the criminal that did the grabbing.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    So exactly how is this ANY different from said ninja BG noticing you have a concealed gun on you and trying to relieve you of it? It is nearly impossible to completely conceal a gun from anyone that is looking for someone carrying. One twist of the waist and I have you because I'm always looking.


    You're never going to diminish your risks by 100%, but you can take steps to diminish them by as much as practical. A properly concealed handgun is part of that. Will it be invisible to everyone, no...of course not, but it will be MUCH more invisible than the gun that's carried openly on someone's hip.

    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    BTW did they also have the same level of training Jayhawker had?

    I obviously have no way of knowing that. That wasn't the point though. To some folks there's a very "us and them" attitude when it comes to carriers vs. criminals, in regards to knowledge/intelligence, mindset, tactics, etc... The point was that sometimes, the line between "us and them" isn't as clear a boundary as we'd like.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,578 Senior Member
    Eli wrote: »
    You're never going to diminish your risks by 100%, but you can take steps to diminish them by as much as practical. A properly concealed handgun is part of that. Will it be invisible to everyone, no...of course not, but it will be MUCH more invisible than the gun that's carried openly on someone's hip.




    I obviously have no way of knowing that. That wasn't the point though. To some folks there's a very "us and them" attitude when it comes to carriers vs. criminals, in regards to knowledge/intelligence, mindset, tactics, etc... The point was that sometimes, the line between "us and them" isn't as clear a boundary as we'd like.

    looking back on my youthful days, I'm probably only one or two bends in the road away from having become "one of them". Fortunately, good folks took notice at the opportune time and guided that interest and drive towards the right direction. My skill is my skill. By the grace of God alone, it's used for the right purposes.

    There re are those out there with the same skill set that chose a different direction. That's just the nature of the beast.

    There assuredly is skillful evil out there.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »

    There assuredly is skillful evil out there.

    One very small example...

    I grew up on Meth Mountain (Sand Mountain) where the pastimes seem to be racing your male family members in seeing who can get your 12 year old sister pregnant first, and cooking/selling crystal meth......not necessarily in that order.

    One of the groups that I went to school with set up their own octagon and gym in the barn behind one of their houses. They did weight training and MMA/H2H/Edged Weapons sparring a few hours a day, seven days a week. You basically had a crew of a half dozen tweakers/cookers that in a conflict, you'd BETTER stop them before they got within arms reach, because if you didn't, you would definitely end up in the ICU or morgue.
  • EliEli Senior Member Posts: 3,074 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    But deciding that open carry is wrong for everyone based on a few incidences blown out of proportion on the Internet is just an emotional purely subjective reaction. I do not open carry, but I might someday just for yucks. This is my right and allowed in my state. I see NO ISSUE, with anyone exercising their God given right to make that decision either way for themselves and I'll NEVER think ill of them for doing either.

    There shouldn't be ANY laws saying that you're not allowed to, but I reserve the right to think that anyone who does it on any sort of regular basis, is a complete frickin moron.

    I also think that people that DON'T carry some form of self defense tool are frickin morons. I'm not talking about "official" anything....I'm just sharing my opinion on the matter.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,578 Senior Member
    "Guys"

    If you are including me in that "guys", I never said anywhere in this thread that I recall........that open carry is wrong. I didn't provide any statistical aberrations.

    I stated my mindset in consciously figuring out how to take a weapon from someone intent on tempting me with it.

    You are entitled to open carry to your hearts content. I am entitled to call you stupid.

    Life goes on.





    What else we gonna talk about? Your "Manties"?

    :jester:
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,578 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    And I stand by this statement all day long and I don't think it can be successfully debated. Of course you are entitled to feel open carry is stupid. I am sure the antis that keep sowing these seeds of discordance amongst our ranks love you for it.

    I support your right to be stupid.

    Does that make you feel better?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,578 Senior Member
    I support your right to go out and get stumbling, poop faced drunk if no harm comes to others in the process.

    I think you're stupid if you do. But, I support that right.

    See how this works?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • TexShotTexShot New Member Posts: 7 New Member
    Not sure why this line made me crack up because of it's specificity.

    "...two men fled and ran toward the trailer parks."
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement