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CHP Class Thoughts

NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior MemberPosts: 4,324 Senior Member
I have mentioned I was dumb and let my CHP lapse so I had to take the class. Recently I did and had a good classroom instructor but I was not so impressed by the range quals. What are yours takes guys?

The classroom was for two dozen students and was handled by the one instructor teaching and his wife handling the admin side. Both did a good job and nothing I'd say needed to be really addressed.

Now we move to the range. There we had the instructor and one RO to assist and his wife back behind the line handling the admin ... 3 people for 24 students. To qualify for a CHP he required landing 7 out of 10 rounds in a 10" circle at 3, 5 & 7 yards. Yes, it sounds simple but there where at least 3 new shooters who had never fired a gun and 3 more who might have picked up a gun but had no clue. One woman had brought her 21 year old son for his birthday and was in a panic. She asked me for help and I took maybe 15 minutes to work with her on a simple grip and stance plus crude sight alignment. She was very easy to deal with and listened so when she walked up she had no problems. I wish that could be said for many others. After all 24 ran through the first round 5 or 6 had to reshoot (which they were charge again to do). There was little to no prep for their reshoot and at least 2 women had failed their first reshoot. They paid AGAIN for a 2nd reshoot, it was now dusk and they were getting real nervous. I was getting a little pissed at the reshoot charge and the from what I saw not really working on grip and stance. I got my certificate and left with them still on the range.

I am not clear on what is REQUIRED under the CHP course but I would have thought at least suggest any student know they needed a basic knowledge because that is not covered in the course. Or at least have someone who could work with the newer shooters. It was not my class and I probably pissed off the instructor simply by working with that woman but damn ... between class fees, gun rentals (they rented .22lr handguns and ammo to those who didn't have one for $30!) and reshoots I would guess he made $2500 for one day's work. Is it just me or did this guy drop the ball?
“The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
- George Orwell

Replies

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,861 Senior Member
    NCFUBAR wrote: »
    Is it just me or did this guy drop the ball?
    Sounds like he did to me :cuss:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    The CHP class in NC is absolute crap. I'll elaborate tomorrow when I have more time.
    Yep, the class is almost worthless but I am more bothered by the way the instructor didn't even address the grip, stance and sight alignment. I, a total novice, was able to help a person who has never fired a gun qual on her first try but he had others who had to reshoot? That is what I am really thinking about here.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • gatorgator Senior Member Posts: 1,746 Senior Member
    Our shoot was two shots in two seconds from 5 yards three times then three shots in three seconds at the same 5 yards twice. Move dack to ten yards and repeat.

    One younger gal was digging a garden in front of her target on the 5 yard line.

    One older gent with an older GI 1911 was bleeding all over himself and the line after the first two shots.

    They had to pull one guy off the line for numerous safety violations including turning completely around and sweeping everyone with a locked and loaded pistol.
    They had 3 coaches surrounding hin as he had the line all to himself after everyone else was finished.

    But at the end of the day everybody passed, I believe.........kinda a scary thought.

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    USMC 80-84
    -96 lbs
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,530 Senior Member
    The DMV does not teach you to drive while taking your drivers license test. It's kinda expected you know how before you show up.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    That's pretty bad. I wasn't very impressed with the course I took, but it beat that pretty badly.

    There were two women there who had never shot a gun, and they rented them both Bersa .380's, which of course they ended up buying. But the range instruction was pretty good. We took 100 rounds and shot the course once for practice and once for real. The RO's left alone those that obviously knew what they were doing, and worked with the newbies, about 5 people. We shot sets of 5, in 5 seconds, loading on command and laying the gun down, pointed down range, until commanded to pick them up, immediately followed by the target being flipped to face us. Most of this was 7 yards or under, with only 5 shots at 15 yards.

    The two ladies hit nothing at 15 yards, but still scored well enough to pass, so all in all, the instruction was decent, and safety was taught and enforced well. I think they probably signed the worst of them up for more training.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    In my opinion (which ain't worth crap) I would not trust but maybe 4 or 5 out of that class of 24 to carry a handgun. I am glad I don't have to say yes or no to who can or can't carry because of level of competence ... much less set the state standards to do so.

    It just bothers me some people will look at making a buck first and quite a few students get the short end. Wambli is right in that the class is not suppose to teach handling or marksmanship it is suppose to verify the person can do the things safely. It is the students ultimately who are responsible for building and refining their skills ... just would be nice if one of the first people these new gun owners meet would be a better ambassador to gun ownership and responsibility.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Yep, 1 guy showed up with a brand new RIA compact .45acp w/ Golden Saber +P ammo. He was not familiar with it and kept having failures to feed which I think came from limp wristing. Also when he first went to reload the mag he swept me by tucking the handgun under his arm ... I jumped and the instructor did acknowledge that and explained but I don't think it sunk in completely. Showing up with that gun being a new shooter is kinda like a 16 year old taking their road test in '70 Chevelle SS.

    I was speaking with the owner of a new range and store and said he should offer a First Steps class with every sale of a firearm at half price or such. He thought is was great idea but I have yet to hear he has implemented it. I do know there is an instructor in western NC who offers a package deal on his First Steps and CHP class and is slammed with business because of it. Those out for the almighty dollar are hurting many new shooters just the same as some LGS a-holes do when they don't care what they sell to a newbie as long as the money is green.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    NCFUBAR wrote: »
    I have mentioned I was dumb and let my CHP lapse so I had to take the class. Recently I did and had a good classroom instructor but I was not so impressed by the range quals. What are yours takes guys?

    The classroom was for two dozen students and was handled by the one instructor teaching and his wife handling the admin side. Both did a good job and nothing I'd say needed to be really addressed.

    Now we move to the range. There we had the instructor and one RO to assist and his wife back behind the line handling the admin ... 3 people for 24 students. To qualify for a CHP he required landing 7 out of 10 rounds in a 10" circle at 3, 5 & 7 yards. Yes, it sounds simple but there where at least 3 new shooters who had never fired a gun and 3 more who might have picked up a gun but had no clue. One woman had brought her 21 year old son for his birthday and was in a panic. She asked me for help and I took maybe 15 minutes to work with her on a simple grip and stance plus crude sight alignment. She was very easy to deal with and listened so when she walked up she had no problems. I wish that could be said for many others. After all 24 ran through the first round 5 or 6 had to reshoot (which they were charge again to do). There was little to no prep for their reshoot and at least 2 women had failed their first reshoot. They paid AGAIN for a 2nd reshoot, it was now dusk and they were getting real nervous. I was getting a little pissed at the reshoot charge and the from what I saw not really working on grip and stance. I got my certificate and left with them still on the range.

    I am not clear on what is REQUIRED under the CHP course but I would have thought at least suggest any student know they needed a basic knowledge because that is not covered in the course. Or at least have someone who could work with the newer shooters. It was not my class and I probably pissed off the instructor simply by working with that woman but damn ... between class fees, gun rentals (they rented .22lr handguns and ammo to those who didn't have one for $30!) and reshoots I would guess he made $2500 for one day's work. Is it just me or did this guy drop the ball?

    Sounds like he's definitely in it for the money. If there's some sight the state sponsors you can go to and evaluate this instructor, you need to do so. Maybe the state didn't consider price gouging when they set this all up, but it's a real problem or can be. The state should set some standards. You know it's not costing them any $30 per person for reshooting. If he's saying it's for targets, he's full of it. And he knows full well that after someone has made the sizable investment to take the course, they're not going to walk off without a reshoot or two. If it's me I would say $5 per reshoot just for my time and covering the targets. $30 is just plain BS! Unless he's furnishing ammo for all that. But here in Texas you BYOA. Like I said, in my mind this guy is doing this strictly for the money, but what's bad about that is he's price gouging too.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    I let my CCL laps too in 2012 and haven't redone it til now. But this morning I got a text from a friend saying her friend who teaches these classes has an opening, and I signed up. It's March 6th on the other side of Victoria. I've felt naked for 4 years.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,287 Senior Member
    Move to a state with better gun laws.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Move to a state with better gun laws.

    I think most states, who do not have Constitutional Carry, have at least a couple of crappy CHP laws.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    I like how FL just requires a firearms/hunter safety course. Or military training.

    http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Divisions-Offices/Licensing/Concealed-Weapon-License/Acceptable-Training-Documentation

    $25 for the FWC courses.

    http://myfwc.com/hunting/safety-education/courses/

    Boom. You're done. Seems the state figures if you want to learn about how the legalities, methods, etc.... it's on you.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    I like how FL just requires a firearms/hunter safety course. Or military training.

    http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Divisions-Offices/Licensing/Concealed-Weapon-License/Acceptable-Training-Documentation

    $25 for the FWC courses.

    http://myfwc.com/hunting/safety-education/courses/

    you then apply through the STATE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE not the County Sheriff ...

    Boom. You're done. Seems the state figures if you want to learn about how the legalities, methods, etc.... it's on you.

    FIFY compared to NC ... Florida doing it through a STATE agency is so much smarter for uniformity unlike what 100 different CLEOs do here.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    I wasn't going to bring up the issuance method, but yeah, that seems better, too. I just think that FL setting a basic standard that's inexpensively attained is better than requiring one go to a class where the standards of teaching.... might not be so great. In that case you get varying levels of instruction, not all of which might be so great.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,758 Senior Member
    I like how FL just requires a firearms/hunter safety course. Or military training.

    Every time I see this I have to grin....it's like folks believe that everyone in the military is a trained trigger puller....ignoring the fact that a high percentage of the military never sees a weapon after qualifying in basic training other than an infrequent re-qualification or familiarization. I (and I'm sure every other vet) encountered a lot of people in the military that had no business being within 10 feet of a firearm...unless there was a locked arms room door between them and it...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    The range session for a FL hunter safety course is just a few hours. I know the military doesn't have as stringent of requirements as some think, but at the same time the law is something I like: If you're going to mandate a standard for something I think shouldn't even need a permit, don't make it ornerous. An NRA safety course will also do. No need for an expensive class.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,287 Senior Member
    How about;

    You are a adult. It is up to you to get training if you need it. Here is your permit.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    How about;

    You are a adult. It is up to you to get training if you need it. Here is your permit.
    I'd rather there be no permit, myself.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,287 Senior Member
    Agreed, but I am willing to go with a background check.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Regardless of it being a requirement or not, training from a knowledgeable source is pretty darn important for anyone that intends to CC a handgun. Too many charlatans out there taking advantage of the unsuspecting.
    And that's my issue with required training: it spawns an industry of "experts" who take money from the unknowing/naive and give them little in return. I feel that if it wasn't mandated but rather voluntary, there'd be a more limited market and the charlatans would hopefully wither up and dry away. That's my hope.

    I've observed quite a few folks who do training at local gun shows and ranges. Not impressed.

    I also realize I'm a bit different: if I'm going to do something like that I'll take the time to research what's required of me legally and not rely on someone else to tell me all I need to know.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,008 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    The DMV does not teach you to drive while taking your drivers license test. It's kinda expected you know how before you show up.

    Ed Zachary. The TX class is pretty basic. Just making sure you aren't a complete window licker, and know which end the bullet comes out of
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,861 Senior Member
    How about;

    You are a adult. It is up to you to get training if you need it. Here is your permit.
    The Alabama method :up:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,287 Senior Member
    PA method to.

    Its worked for at least 50 years, maybe longer.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    How about;

    You are a adult. It is up to you to get training if you need it. Here is your permit.

    The Washington method, too. (for now, anyway)
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Any sort of "license" is just a government way to extort money for allowing citizens to do something they should be free to do in the first place. Open a business- - - -get a license! Drive a car- - - -license! Fly a plane- - - -get a very costly license! Exercise a constitutional right- - - -jump through all sorts of hoops including- - - -you guessed it- - - -get a license! Now, how long will it be until we need a license to attend church, publish a book, or have some sort of privacy? The same sort of lefthanded logic can be applied to exercising all the above-mentioned "rights" once the government turns them into "priveleges"!
    Jerry
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,400 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Any sort of "license" is just a government way to extort money for allowing citizens to do something they should be free to do in the first place. Open a business- - - -get a license! Drive a car- - - -license! Fly a plane- - - -get a very costly license! Exercise a constitutional right- - - -jump through all sorts of hoops including- - - -you guessed it- - - -get a license! Now, how long will it be until we need a license to attend church, publish a book, or have some sort of privacy? The same sort of left-handed logic can be applied to exercising all the above-mentioned "rights" once the government turns them into "privileges"!
    Jerry

    And don't even get me started on what you have to go through to do something on your own house or property! Here in California, you're supposed to get a permit to replace a water heater. Nobody ever does, but you're supposed to. Build a deck, get a permit. Re-roof, get a permit. Put up a shed, get a permit. And the crooked little county building department makes it utter HELL.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Hell, I see veteran cops fail to qualify at their mandated qualification shoots. Lord, Help us.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    When I did remedial training for NYPD, the worst of the lot were the desk jockies being reassigned to street supervisory roles, they had not cleaned their guns since the initial loading, some where corroded closed.

    They just could not qualify, I got these problem students and I worked really hard as did they, non of my students failed to qualify, it was not an easy pass by any means and I enjoyed every minute of it as it made me a decent Instructor, I benefitted from it.

    I had many female LE students and a sterling reputation as an Instructor, it shocked and humbled me as word spread, I had FLE students too !

    I had students excelled to become competitive shooters and I was proud to say; the student has become the master !

    I loved working as a shooting Instructor, how can they pay you for having so much fun was my question, lol.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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