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Enough from the "Entitled Leaches"!

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  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    How many years ago was it that people stopped understanding that 40 hours a week was just a minimum? Honestly, when I started with this company, the only time I put a 40 hour week in was when I had a weeks vacation on a paycheck. If I only had 20 hrs OT in a two week pay period, it felt like I just got ripped off. Before that 72 in a week was pretty much the norm in the construction field in the summer. Coming into work on Thursday and starting to mark OT before lunch was not at all unusual.

    But that is only one part of the equation.

    The other side to not being broke is you have to figure out how to keep what you earn. There are a ton of resources out there to let a person know how, but most folks wont do the work (there is that word again) to become not broke. There are guys at the same paygrade I am at who are living paycheck to paycheck.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    The media we intake always reverts to the lowest common denominator so it's natural habbit that we often follow. Service jobs can often include things like commercial air craft maintenance.

    The thing that I can't accept is that a person should be employed full time, and after receiving full and complete compensation for their time still qualify for government public assistance. This not only is unjust to that person, but it increases that businesses prophets at tax payer expense.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Alpha, I know you love throwing out statistics and percentages because you can spin them into any point that you want to make but sometimes, (most of the time) you insult people's intellegence with your use of statistical data. Your numbers are a national average yet a given wage equates to a different lifestyle in different locations. Ten dollars an hour in Los Angeles probably won't buy a shipping crate but in a small town in a state with no income tax, a lot more can be bought with that ten dollars. Many people, like myself and probably even you move to where we want to be and can make a living. No one is owed a living wage in the city of their choice. They might have to move to where the work is. I know that I've mentioned this before but my parents imigrated here in 1958 with what they were wearing and didn't speak a word of english. They had a sponsor who helped them find housing and jobs. They had multiple jobs before it was fashionable and their dream was to find a full time job and when they found one, they stayed there until retirement. Through my early youth, each of them also kept a part time job to make some extra money. Neither of them was ever in supervision or management and they both had menial jobs all of their lives. My dad worked at the Falk Corporation (a big foundry in Milwaukee) by day and pumped gas at night and my mom cleaned houses for people by day and worked as a cleaning lady at Pabst Breweries at night. They didn't go out to eat, they didn't drink designer beer, they didn't buy expensive clothes, or take lavish vacations, every cent they made went towards raising my brother and I and living as an American family. They also never had a charge card or a car loan, they paid cash for everything including their vehicles and the house that they had built in 1980 in Brookfield Wisconsin. All on the wages of a foundry worker and a cleaning lady with almost no education an nothing to offer but a WORK ETHIC! My mom always used to say "if you want more, work more."
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    :agree:

    We need to get past subsidizing mediocrity (or outright laziness/apathy) and get back to rewarding performance.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    That's a great story and a very typical American story. I'd be interested to see if anyone could find current examples of couples who were capable of scraping out such a living in those jobs moving here in 2016 and not 1958? A lot has changed since then. Actually I can't think of a better time in history to move to this country as an unskilled and uneducated immigrant than from the 1940-1970.

    First you find two people from this entitled generation who are willing to do the work, and then I will show you a typical American story.
    The structure of the job market is something that few of us have any control over, and it has been shifting in a way that has essentially hallowed out the middle class and ensures that there is a rapidly growing lower class of working poor.
    I see you havent found one yet.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Listen to Wambli, he speaks truth. And, take him up on his offer.

    Also, consider yourself LUCKY you even got an email back, even if it wasn't favorable. A lot of company's use an online service, Taleo is one of them. It sucks a giant ****, IMHO. Quite simply, depending on how the hiring people have it configured, and how you answer, the person that does the hiring may never even see your application. the computer can kick you out without even ever taking to a human. It sucks, but it is what it is. You've got to beat the system.


    This, and many companies these days (like the one I work for) automatically require applicants to answer what seems like a completely inane questionnaire. The purpose of the weird/stupid questions they ask you? To disqualify you BEFORE you ever get to talk to somebody about the job you're applying for. I've recommended a few kids (from our school) come in and apply, telling them all to use me as a reference. Only a few of them (good kids, all) made it past the 'gotcha' questions. I think the queries are stupid, but there you go. Somebody puts stock in them, so they continue.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    That's a great story and a very typical American story. I'd be interested to see if anyone could find current examples of couples who were capable of scraping out such a living in those jobs moving here in 2016 and not 1958? A lot has changed since then. Actually I can't think of a better time in history to move to this country as an unskilled and uneducated immigrant than from the 1940-1970.


    It amazes me that you could take a road trip all over the country and not really see what the people that you drove past are doing. There is no shortage of unskilled and uneducated people all over the area that I live in that are making an acceptable living by just working hard at whatever job they get. My parents adapted to the work that was available where we lived and many of the current generation of immigrants adapt to whatever jobs are available to them. The key component that you keep ignoring is a work ethic. The people that move here with à work ethic and a desire to assimilate into American society will succeed and the people that move here with a sense of entitlement and want to get as much as possible with the least amount of effort will have liberals like you trying to convince others that they were denied opportunities and it's our duty to share what we've worked for.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    It amazes me that you could take a road trip all over the country and not really see what the people that you drove past are doing. There is no shortage of unskilled and uneducated people all over the area that I live in that are making an acceptable living by just working hard at whatever job they get. My parents adapted to the work that was available where we lived and many of the current generation of citizens adapt to whatever jobs are available to them. The key component that you keep ignoring is a work ethic. The people that are here with à work ethic and a desire to prosper in American society will succeed and the people that are here with a sense of entitlement and want to get as much as possible with the least amount of effort will have liberals like you trying to convince others that they were denied opportunities and it's our duty to share what we've worked for.


    Adjusted it a tad. It isnt about immigrants.

    I hooked a guy up with a job that was about 15K more a year (at least) base salary + OT, less hours, 50 miles closer with a recommendation. He never even applied because it was out of his comfort zone.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Those who are intelligent, talented, and hard workingwill always have opportunities to succeed.


    Intelligence and a skill can gain someone a higher income level but it's not an absolute necessity where a willingness to work hard can make up for a lack of education or skill. Also, I don't know why you keep relating everyone's position in life to the opportunities that they were afforded. If that's not a liberal mantra, I don't know what is. If immigrants can move here with no language skills and minimal trade skills and/or education and still build a life for themselves, then someone who was born here and went to school here is afforded substantially more "opportunities", regardless of their background.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • toymachinetoymachine Senior Member Posts: 761 Senior Member
    I've seem a lot of employees hang around just long enough to get trained (dragging our productivity numbers down in the process, and damaging our chances for a bonus), then "find greener pastures" and leave for another job. Can't imagine they stay at the next job very long, before realizing it isn't the paradise the recruiter promised either. That's a separate issue from the leaches who are only there to continue their eligibility for assistance.

    Many companies also don't put much stock into retaining trained employees, figuring "everyone's replaceable". To some extent, they're right, but you lose a lot of productivity that way, and get stuck in a cycle of constant high turn-over-a revolving door of resume BS artists- as well as irritating the employees who stick with the company. My resume sucks, because I'm not constantly tuning it up, looking for the next ride. I'd rather focus on continuing my training and improving efficiency where I am. I've been lucky enough to find HR departments that can see that. Or maybe they were just desperate enough to overlook it.

    Then you get to the companies who cry "hard times", delay employee wage increases by six or more months, and suspend company matches to 401k programs. Fair enough, a weak economy demands cut-backs. Then they increase stock dividend payouts by 5% over last quarter. Hard times, huh?$@£€₩; YOU!
    "Is 'milk bottle' literally a racist term?"
    "It is now." - Jack Fraggs
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Providing high paying unskilled jobs does much less for the poor than freeing up the small business opportunities. More small businesses means more opportunity for the poor by providing a lot of entry level jobs that can lead to more responsible positions within a much smaller 'sphere.' A guy can work hard and reach his potential at one company, then move to another, or start his own. Giving him a job at a factory with small opportunity for advancement simply turns him into another whining Democrat that thinks labor unions are the answer, and creating the oligarchies that unions (and socialist/communists) rail against in all of their propaganda, already.

    Elitest politicians in both parties are destroying the middle class, and the country along with it.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Providing high paying unskilled jobs does much less for the poor than freeing up the small business opportunities. More small businesses means more opportunity for the poor by providing a lot of entry level jobs that can lead to more responsible positions within a much smaller 'sphere.' A guy can work hard and reach his potential at one company, then move to another, or start his own. Giving him a job at a factory with small opportunity for advancement simply turns him into another whining Democrat that thinks labor unions are the answer, and creating the oligarchies that unions (and socialist/communists) rail against in all of their propaganda, already.

    Elitest politicians in both parties are destroying the middle class, and the country along with it.


    While I agree with this to an extent, we find ourselves in kind of a "catch 22" as our countrie's hunger for certain goods can't always be met by small businesses. Some things have to be produced in large quantities to be profitable and then the greed factor comes in also. Overseas manufacturing usually isn't regulated as much as in the US and labor is much cheaper, increasing profits even further. There's no one simple solution as there are a lot of things wrong with the system.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I had to fight with our HR/hiring department when I was in management about changing the parameters they had set. Can't remember what it was exactly, but if they didn't click "x", the applications never even crossed my desk. I was selecting from an already small pool of applicants, I don't need a computer kicking out someone who may be the guy I hire just because he didn't say ______. Of course, someone up above in some office knew better as to what I needed. A spreadsheet told them so.

    Yeah...I've brought it up a couple of times. Apparently, the belief is that answering the questions a certain way shows 'dishonest' tendencies, which means that person is less desirable as an employee. Pointing out that the three folks we fired (stealing) in the last year all passed the test has not made me any friends in HR. I guess HR folks are not issued a sense of humor...
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    If a worker is willing to become a disposable cog in a factory gear train, he/she deserves exactly what happens. It's impossible to instill the will to excel and improve one's situation in someone who is satisfied with mediocrity- - - -there's no point in trying to do so. Attempting to drag one's peers down to the level of the least common denominator never works, even if a big national union like the government employees' thug association is the one stifling productivity in the name of conformity.
    Jerry
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    My start in construction consisted of sweeping the floors and dumpster humping as a high school dropout. I learned by watching and helping others. There were no rich, well connected family members helping me.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    My start in construction consisted of sweeping the floors and dumpster humping as a high school dropout. I learned by watching and helping others. There were no rich, well connected family members helping me.

    Dumpster humper.


    Throw me into that mix. Yeah, Mrs. Cgg is college educated, (and obviously an outstanding judge of the male of the species) but she has, for various reasons decided to limit her resume to only having taught at parochial schools...one in particular for the past 20+ years.

    Her earning potential 'artificially' limited by her career choice, mine by a lack of continuing to educate myself, we are your target audience, Alpha. I am the people you're talking about. We have severely limited our ability to deal with life and all its ups and downs...and yet, we're doing just fine. How is that possible, in this land of reduced prosperity?

    I'm not going to lie and tell you we live in a great neighborhood, (we don't) nor will I say that early retirement is ever likely to be a possibility. In spite of that, we do okay.


    You say having a T.V. doesn't make somebody wealthy and you're correct...it does not. However, being able to afford things like cable (or dish), 'high end' designer clothes, smokes, liquor, expensive shoes, expensive tire/rim combos, expensive window rattling sound systems, tons of free time and almost zero responsibility...those things separately, or in various combinations do make folks feeding at the public trough irresponsible to say the least.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,159 Senior Member
    It's not rocket surgery. You get a job (at least by 18). You STAY at that job while looking for another job. You DON'T miss work when your baby daddy tax check comes (a nephew just did this last week). If you have been fired/quit 12 jobs by the time you are 25, nobody will hire you for a CAREER type job.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    You see, the thing is, every time I turn around I'm being taxed for something. My pay stubs show that somewhere around 30% of my gross income goes for income taxes. I pay anywhere from 5.5% to 10% sales tax on the products I buy. When I fill up my car? On average, $8 tax per tankful. Every bill I pay? Tax. Order some prepared food? Tax. Contract a service? Tax. I haven't sat down to figure the exact amounts out, but it approaches half of what I make. Who knows? maybe it's more...

    I'm sick of taxes, and I'm sick of seeing money that I've worked hard to earn being pissed away at any level. You can go on and on ad nauseum about how this is just helping those poor destitute folks who are down on their luck, and for at least the instances you're citing, I'm sure you're right. The problem is this: There are problems. "The system" isn't ALL problems, but there are enough that, for me, there is zero interest in seeing ANY changes in it that aren't DIRECTLY related to FIXING the problems that ALREADY EXIST...unless those changes involve making the system smaller, so at least the waste and graft doesn't dig as deeply.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,159 Senior Member
    Every penny I paid in Federal tax won't even pay for the check my neice will get back for having two illegitimate kids....................... :cuss:
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Every penny I paid in Federal tax won't even pay for the check my neice will get back for having two illegitimate kids....................... :cuss:


    No...but it'll sure help. I'll be there to chip in too.

    Funny...for all the kids I'm helping to raise, you'd think I'd be getting a lot more action. I'm starting to understand his seepeejayness.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    While the welfare leeches are a huge problem, aren't we at least being victimized as much by the alphabet soup government agencies who siphon off huge quantities of money for doing nothing that's actually beneficial? These people have become adept at doing enough paper shuffling to look like they're actually accomplishing whatever mission they've been tasked with doing, when all they're actually doing is assuring their continued survival by demanding bigger and bigger budgets. The waste and corruption is epic, and nobody seems to care! After any public entity has more than approximately 50 employees, they're able to generate enough internal correspondence to appear to be busy all day, every day, while accomplishing virtually nothing of substance. These people never have to stand for election- - - -they just roll along under the political surface, relying on their civil service GS ratings to make their jobs virtually dismissal-proof!
    Jerry
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    In the late 80s and early 90s, I worked as a contractor to the USNs Metrology Engineering Center. The division I supported was NAVAIR, Naval Avaition. Essentially all the USN fixed and rotary wing aircraft support equipment calibration requirements for every Naval and Marine Air Stations in the world. Old and new. There were about 10 GS-12s, each with several aircraft programs they were responsible for. Every day about 7 or 8 of them would meet for lunch at the base club and not leave until they went home, usually shitfaced. Every day this happend till they finally started closing the club at like 1:00. They then started going to the American Legion right outside the gate. Their GS-14 division head was there with them almost every day. They did essentially nothing except put money on the contract for me and I and my engineers provided all the support for the fleet. It got to be I would get the calls from DC they should have been getting but were not in the office for. It's changed since then but I wonder how much.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Just a few thoughts. 1st I'm not saying people can't survive, and I don't know exactly how you're doing, but it seems to me like people in the previous generation who would have taken similar career paths had a bit more security in life than you and your wife do, and it's only getting worse.

    As for the people "feeding at the trough" that you're talking about, those with the luxuries are very rarely affording those things on the public dime. Almost always they're being subsidized by illegal activities. It just happens that often the neighborhoods many people associate with public assistance in their minds are also the neighborhoods most likely to support many of those illegal activities.

    Yes, lifetime security has gone by the wayside, at least for many. I'd wager you could count all the private entities that offer lifetime pensions (not literally, but not far off) on the fingers of one hand and likely have enough fingers left over to pick your nose with. Those private entities that do offer such a thing aren't doing so 'across the board', but only to those individuals who merit such treatment through their performance (that's profitability, in case you're wondering) to their company.
    Not too much. Want to look at the biggest, most bloated and inefficient government agency, look no further than DOD. But if anyone even thinks about cutting their budget or forcing them to become more efficient you get every "patriot" and chickenhawk squawking about endangering the troops! I've seen enough between my time as a contractor along with my time here in DC to understand how few of our tax dollars supposedly spent on defense actually go towards making us safer.


    Likely comparable to the percentage of dollars that are collected for education that actually are used for educating and not for paying for retirees? Or maybe the percentage of dollars collected but not spent actually paving roads? Or, the percentage of dollars collected for social insecurity that actually go toward somebody's fixed income? Shall I continue?

    Please take this with a spoonful of sugar, I truly mean no offense....but I always get a kick out of somebody who likely makes more than my wife and I combined telling me about the plight of the American poor. You should try it sometime. It's really not all that bad.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    Not too much. Want to look at the biggest, most bloated and inefficient government agency, look no further than DOD. But if anyone even thinks about cutting their budget or forcing them to become more efficient you get every "patriot" and chickenhawk squawking about endangering the troops! I've seen enough between my time as a contractor along with my time here in DC to understand how few of our tax dollars supposedly spent on defense actually go towards making us safer.
    Because the same thing happens when a town is trying to force a tax increase on the people. They cut out the cops and the FD. EVERY TIME. They NEVER cut back on the underground parking lots at the courthouse, or the executive secretaries secretaries assistant.
    Most of the DOD budget is social. Food clothing and shelter. The only thing they ever go after is the tanks, ships and planes, not the waste.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Not too much. Want to look at the biggest, most bloated and inefficient government agency, look no further than DOD. But if anyone even thinks about cutting their budget or forcing them to become more efficient you get every "patriot" and chickenhawk squawking about endangering the troops! I've seen enough between my time as a contractor along with my time here in DC to understand how few of our tax dollars supposedly spent on defense actually go towards making us safer.

    I have never doubted that there is a terrific amount of corruption and waste perpetrated against taxpayers by the department of defense. But the other bureaucracies provide a 'double-whammy' against taxpayers, because they not only suck huge amounts of tax dollars, but stifle the economy, as well, by making draconian demands upon small business.

    At least, defense dollars do provide national security and give us a global capability to influence other nations that we trade with, which most voters seem willing to pay for. It also stimulates small business to a much greater extent than it harms it, and that benefits the economy to a much greater extent than those agencies that place more emphasis on controlling us than protecting us.

    Unfortunately, the ONLY budget cuts that Democrats and RINOS will even consider are those that make us weaker on the battlefields of the world that have always existed, and will always exist. They will not even consider cuts to those bureaucracies that have been slowly strangling our economy for decades, and now have us on our knees before our 'trading partners.'
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    Just a few thoughts. 1st I'm not saying people can't survive, and I don't know exactly how you're doing, but it seems to me like people in the previous generation who would have taken similar career paths had a bit more security in life than you and your wife do, and it's only getting worse.
    I sort of agree partly with you. People in the last 2.5- 3 generations lived in a boom time and it was a bit easier to serve a growing population , however people before that still became successful because of what they did, and people since the baby boom has petered out are still getting ahead when they stop depending on other people and magic to do so.
    TVs and even basic smart phones are fairly inexpensive these days, and frankly not really all that optional (the phone or at least some form of phone and internet access, which the smart phone is often the cheapest option).
    Absolutely not. They are completely optional when you dont have the money for them. If you need the internet, libraries have it for free. A prepaid phone will keep you connected.
    As far as TV's I saw a 40+ inch flat screen at Goodwill the other day for less than $100. The fact that a person has some stuff does not mean they can also afford rent, reliable transportation, to pay their heating bill in the winter, and food for their family.
    Sure it does. TV's are cheap, cable is avg 123/mo http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/02/01/the-average-american-pays-this-amount-for-cable-ho.aspx throwing that away on something where you are not engaged in getting ahead is a great way to stay broke. The very fact that one would pay the catv bill before buying food on not having the rent in the bank is why that person will stay broke, not because they cant find a 25/hr job burning fries. No ones fault but the person making that decision.

    One other thing. If you want to get ahead, watch what people who are getting ahead or are already financially stable do, and do that. Dont look at those who are stuck or regressing and emulate them, because if you do, you will only sit there and complain in a circle going nowhere. It takes a lot of work and self sacrafice to become "lucky".
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Just a few thoughts. 1st I'm not saying people can't survive, and I don't know exactly how you're doing, but it seems to me like people in the previous generation who would have taken similar career paths had a bit more security in life than you and your wife do, and it's only getting worse.

    As for the people "feeding at the trough" that you're talking about, those with the luxuries are very rarely affording those things on the public dime. Almost always they're being subsidized by illegal activities. It just happens that often the neighborhoods many people associate with public assistance in their minds are also the neighborhoods most likely to support many of those illegal activities.

    First off, I'm no Ohio State grad, but I'm still able to connect the dots on some of the less complicated concepts...make sure and type slowly for me.

    Yeah, I get that folks aren't buying big screen TVs with their EBT cards, my point is quite simply this: If person "X" has money for ANYTHING other than subsistence, if that person can buy 'LeBrons' or Pelle Pelle leather jackets, if that person can afford high dollar toys for their hoopty, or smokes or booze...why in the hell am I paying them to eat?? Why am I paying for their ing rent??

    You may notice the glaring omission of ANYTHING even remotely illegal there. That's because the illegal BS should be an automatic "Nope". If it's illegal for anybody, it's an automatic disqualifier. Period.

    As for my own continued existence, there is nothing you or anybody else can offer me that I want or would even accept, barring the wages and benefits I earn. If I can't do it myself, it ain't gettin' done.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    First off, I'm no Ohio State grad, but I'm still able to connect the dots on some of the less complicated concepts...make sure and type slowly for me.

    Yeah, I get that folks aren't buying big screen TVs with their EBT cards, my point is quite simply this: If person "X" has money for ANYTHING other than subsistence, if that person can buy 'LeBrons' or Pelle Pelle leather jackets, if that person can afford high dollar toys for their hoopty, or smokes or booze...why in the hell am I paying them to eat?? Why am I paying for their ing rent??

    You may notice the glaring omission of ANYTHING even remotely illegal there. That's because the illegal BS should be an automatic "Nope". If it's illegal for anybody, it's an automatic disqualifier. Period.

    As for my own continued existence, there is nothing you or anybody else can offer me that I want or would even accept, barring the wages and benefits I earn. If I can't do it myself, it ain't gettin' done.


    IOW, if you are truly concerned for me and folks like me...stop insisting on pissing away half or more of what I earn on BS.

    You want to help the middle? Stop helping them so damned much.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    I'm not a huge fan of public assistance, especially the way we do it in this country, but also not everyone in this country on ebt or other programs is unemployed. There are way too many jobs in this country that pay below a living wage. I worry way more about the working poor than I do the "leaches" and the fact that many of our public assistance programs phase out pretty sharply as to effectively discourage people from working. Even working full time in most of the crappy service jobs that are an increasingly large portion of our economy it's really hard to scrape by, and there are a lot of reasons that people end up stuck in those jobs and almost none of them are jobs where you can "work your way up". Next time you go to any retail store, or buy a sandwich or buy gas, take a closer look at the people working there. Those people are all poor and all struggling to make ends meet every month. Many will be teenagers, but an increasing number are in their 30's, 40's, or older. These people aren't all "worthless losers", but people who for various reasons have just struggled to get ahead in a country where opportunity has become an increasingly rare commodity.

    Yeah, it's not quite as easy as it was back a few years, but if you think this place isn't the land of opportunity, get on the big bird and go somewhere else. I've been there-done that. We have 20 times the opportunity as any other place. Now there's parts of Europe where you will have it made because that particular country is under a socialistic government. I don't want that. But there's no opportunity to do better. Those people are stuck in an existence.

    And I don't want to hear about this place being unfair. I knew a guy in high school who was technically ****. He was in special ed because he couldn't spell cat and was slow as molasses. But that guy learned a trade, baking bread and pastries. He has his own business up further north in Texas and he's knocking down well over 100 grand a year. Not bad for a ****, But he worked his dog ass off and used what brains he had. You get what you pay for and you also get what you work for.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    I get your anger, but you may want to take a close look at your next pay stub. I'd bet that a lot of what is reducing your paycheck isn't actually taxes, or at least not as much as you think.

    I would bet that your effective federal tax rate is no more than 15%, probably closer to 12%. I don't know what your state tax is, but maybe 5%. Now SS and Medicare are another 7.5%, so it all adds up, but those are programs are at least theoretically paying directly for future benefits that for most people will excteed what they paid in and if they didn't exist you'd still probably have to save that money in some form to help pay for retirement and healthcare when you're older. Speaking of which, that is where the other big chunk is going. If you're responsible, and it sounds like you are, at least 10% is hopefully going into a retirement account, and another chunk is paying for healthcare and possibly some other benefits. Where this ties into this discussion is benefits and how many companies have systematically been reducing them or passing more of the costs onto their employees, effectively reducing their pay.

    TL;DR - Most people are getting screwed from both ends.

    There is the suggestion that I just don't understand again...

    Calling it 'social security' doesn't make it seem like its not a tax. It still feels like a tax to me. Promising me "more than I pay in" is no sales point to a guy that wants to completely opt out of SS altogether. The fact that most folks "get back more than they pay in" is one of the reasons why the program is so freaking screwed up in the first place. When half (or less) pay into a program that EVERYBODY gets to draw from, and we all 'get back' more than we put in, well, let's just say that even a college graduate should be axle to come up with the correct-but still so very wrong-end result. I'm not optimistic that I'll ever be able to collect the SS 'owed' me, let alone that magical 'more than I paid in amount' of all those fairy tales we're spoon fed. Like many government programs and most federal departments, the current tach that SS is on is not sustainable. The sad thing is that I, and people like me, are looked at like fiscal versions of bitter-clingers.

    Am I angry? I suppose I am. But, I think I'm justified.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
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