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Custom Rifles

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  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    From my personal experience with "brownies" start with a 338 Win Mag and go up from there, I used a 340 Wea. Mag.

    JAY

    Ah but another case for a Mark V. It's usually got a 26 inch barrel and a 340 Weatherby will do anything you need doing and do it well. And in a Weather Mark it will do it better protected from the elemints.

    But if you can do with a little less fanfare just get A 700 Remington SPS Stainless in 30-06 whch will suffice nicely and for a lot less money and a lot less blast, though at a bit less range. Also, I don't think I want to go after a big brown bear with an 06. I think for that I want as big as I can handle.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • apb290apb290 New Member Posts: 24 New Member
    Thanks everyone for all the comments. I am getting much closer to making my decision. I am right between the 7mm and the 300 at this point. I loved the 28 Nosler stats, but lack of bullets on the market puts this one off the list for me. I agree when the time comes for brown bears I will look at it. My father took his grizzle with his 30-06 one shot. This is a long time off for me before I hunt them if ever. My main focus is Elk and going to be putting in for every draw I can for rams which is my dream hunt. I just sent my paper work in yesterday for the elk draw in NM through an outfitter.

    I had a chance to look at the Montana rifles and liked the idea of upgrading them with what I want not need. If I went this route though I would probably just go back to Sako. I love the bolt action and trigger on the Sako 85 was not a fan of the stock and not sure how their barrels stand up to the big three barrel companies. May be harder to upgrade being a foreign gun. How does the Montana rifle compare to Sako 85?

    As for a few questions that were asked about practicing. I tend to do more bench shooting at a range, however before the Moose hunting trip I did practice every chance I could at prone position on family property. Which I am glad I did because I shot my moose in prone position. As for wind speed I will tell you I need lots of practice I do not have experience in shooting long shots in wind or elevations such as mountains yet. For elevations and distances I am going to depend a lot on a G7 Br2 rangefinder. The question regarding custom rifle my definition is something that is not mass produced and something I want for me not something I need. I'll let you all know what I buy this week. Thanks again for all your help.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 5,066 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    My turn! Define "custom rifle". That means lots of things to lots of people.

    Back in the old days a custom rifle usually meant a re-barreled M-70 or M-98, smooth up the action, jeweling the bolt, trigger job, drill and tap, quick release floor plate, and making the stock from a solid block of wood, checkering, sling swivels or barrel band, checkered steel butt plate or recoil pad if needed, Rosewood or Ebony grip cap and forend, and adding a steel recoil plate behind the lug if needed. On DGR sometimes the barrel was turned like the old M-70 with a "lump" on the bbl. and dovetailed top and bottom for open sights and an additional recoil lug on the bottom.

    When I started gunsmithing in 1960 that was the definition of a custom rifle as told to me by my mentor.

    A semi inletted stock was not a true custom.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,547 Senior Member
    The G7 (Good LRF-I have one myself) is great, but it doesn't read the wind speed for you or the angle.
    A cheap wind meter will give you speed only from your shooting point. Wind speed and direction could be very different at target.
    This is where practicing gusty winds or high wind days is worthy of your time.
    I would encourage you to get off the bench once you have your load developed and zeroed, and stay with field positions, including kneeling and sitting.
    It is highly unlikely a nice bench will show up for you to use when hunting elk:jester: so I see no benefit of continuing to shoot off of the bench when the rifle you will purchase is designed for hunting, not BR shooting.
    It is comfortable and easy to shoot off of the bench, and that is why so many hunters do the majority of their practice shooting from it.
    Remington, Savage, Tikka, Sako should all have sufficient accuracy to be deadly at 500 yards. Of course with your custom set-ups they will be nicer, with better barrels, stocks, and triggers.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • wildgenewildgene Senior Member Posts: 1,036 Senior Member
    apb290 wrote: »
    I understand I love my 308 and it's what my father took with him on his elk trip and I may use if I draw this year. I want something a bit more in the long run for other game such as Brown Bear.

    ...I would look @ a .300 or even .325 WSM, tho I'd probably stick w/ the .300 WSM if you don't plan on reloading. Either one will give you "magnum" performance in a shorter, lighter rifle @ a reasonable level of recoil. Far as custom rifles, there's no shortage of gunsmiths building custom, semi-custom to spec., you just need to decide what your budget is, what features you want, what features you need, how soon you need it. Personally, I don't need a $300 precision 20MOA rail on a 'hunting rifle, but I won't have a 'hunting' rifle that the safety doesn't lock down the bolt...

    ...figure out your want/need/budget & I'm sure you'll get steered in the right direction...
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,452 Senior Member
    I like my Savage 116 in .300 Win Mag and have shot it a lot off the bench and in the field, do not brake a .300 Win Mag. Tons of good ammo out there if you don't reload, and if you chose to reload you can keep it simple at first with your .308 needing the same bullets. Savage was putting some decent Burris? Nikon? scopes on their Package guns of late, Nikons I believe, mine came with a Bushnell Sportview which I have been reluctant to replace because it keeps putting the bullets at the spot I want them at the 100yd line, but it is getting to be 20 yrs old and I am getting some worsening clarity around the edges. If you are going to hunt in the mountains, you want something you can carry, my 116 fits the bill. I am 6' and 200#, recoil is brisk but a 15 round session at the bench is easily doable, your mileage may vary.

    Welcome!
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,191 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    do not brake a .300 Win Mag.
    Why not? Installing a brake on my.300 WM was the best move I ever made...one upside is the ability to watch bullet impacts..another is that I don't take a beating during long range sessions...my wife shoots my .300 regularly with no complaints
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,547 Senior Member
    Brakes are good:hug:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • apb290apb290 New Member Posts: 24 New Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I've been lucky enough to handle and shoot a couple and I can tell you an Extreme X2 is on the short list when I get around to it. My buddy's Custom Hart barreled Montana in .300 WSM was a clover leaf group shooter and Hart is not even a true premium barrel. My attraction to Montana, I have to admit, is that deep inside I'm a traditionalist and the fact that they make a CR Mauser/Pre-64 type action is a big one for me. Kimber is another rifle in that class that makes my heart skip beats and my 84 in 7mm-08 with a Kahles 2-7 scope is my all time favorite hunting rifle in the world.
    DSC_0019.jpg

    Amazing looking rifle.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,452 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Why not? Installing a brake on my.300 WM was the best move I ever made...one upside is the ability to watch bullet impacts..another is that I don't take a beating during long range sessions...my wife shoots my .300 regularly with no complaints

    I care more about my ears than my shoulder at this time in my life, speaking about field shooting. I suppose I would like it if you had a brake you could close or remove for field use, not sure how that affects POI, but I don't have to shoot very far anyway. I do not like being around braked rifles when they are going off, even with hearing protection.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Savage99Savage99 Member Posts: 43 Member
    Custom guns are prey to let down's. It's so much easier, faster, safer and less expensive to buy an existing new or used gun.

    On the other hand I look at 'custom' guns for sale when 'used'.

    Those can be enjoyable, less expensive, faster and you can see what your going to get!
    Get the 'power' or optic that your eye likes!
    When we go to the eye doctor they ask us what lens we like! They have us look through lens's and find what we see best with! Do that with your shooting optics.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    That's one of the top ten dumbest things I've ever read here.

    Well, I've got a few customs and he's right about easier, faster (Usually) and less expensive, however I don't know where the safer fits in, if you have a decent gun smith or you know what your doing. But since when has it got anything to do with expense, ease, or speed?

    When I have a rifle built it's because I can't buy what I want. And I have the money ahead of time and know how much I want to spend. Also, speed doesn't matter to me, I have usually been waiting damn near a life time for the rifle I'm having built. So a few months doens't get my panties in a wad. I'm ready for the expense and the wait. As far as being easy, it's pretty damn easy to tell the gun smith exactly what I want, and plop down money for him to do it.

    Dealing with my smith is easy. I usually give him half the money down pr there abouts depending on what barrel I want and what I want to do to then action, and half or so when I pick it up. That first half of payment usually pays for the barrel and parts or close enough, and the other half the labor. Anyway, I know what I'm getting into and don't mind it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Firstly.............Welcome. You have passed the first tests well.

    However, I am surprised at some of the responses to your posts. It appears obvious that some of the members here have forgotten the first rule of membership which is............

    Enablement.

    To correct this, I am going to suggest that you need/want ( don't confuse the 2 by the way, need has nothing to do with want) at least one rifle in each of the calibers that has been mentioned. ( except the 270 that snake mentioned.......a quick search of the forum for '270' will make that clear)

    Start small with one factory rifle in each of the calibres mentioned..............that will form the basis of what you need. Once you have purchased them, you can start looking at custom rifles next week.........that will get you over the 'need' barrier and into the 'want' category.

    Hope you stick around and enjoy your stay here.

    Be nice now, I wasn't bragging on it, in fact the opposite. I just truthfully said that I'd prefer a 30 Magnum over it for what he had said he wanted to hunt with it. If he'd have said deer, I would have maybe tooted the .270s horn a little. After all, it is the perfect deer, oh yeah AND Coyote, cartridge.

    :tooth:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,494 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    When I have a rifle built it's because I can't buy what I want. And I have the money ahead of time and know how much I want to spend.

    Hey bud, you nailed it. As for the person who said custom rifles are prey to let downs which I'm reading as unreliable, I doubt they've ever own a rifle built to your own requirements and standards.

    I have two custom rifles built by Chad Dixon at LongRifles Inc. My custom LH .243 Win built on the Tikka T3 action is finest rifle I've ever owned "PERIOD"! Not because of the accuracy which is in the .3's and .4's but the over fit and balance of the rifle. Chad listen to what I wanted as I had very specific requirements in the rifle. Never once did he say it would be easier for me to do it this way. He let me know if something wasn't feasible or wouldn't be functional and why! He took my requirements and used his professional experience and nailed it on the first try.

    When I shoulder this rifle the cheek weld is spot on every time. I never have to make adjustments. I can do it with my eyes closed and when I open my eyes I have a perfect sight picture down the scope every time! The uncanny aspect of the rifle is the balance. When I shouldered it, it just sits there. It's not front end heavy where the barrel wants to dip or too light where it comes up too high. It just sits there. I've never shouldered a factory rifle or anyone's custom rifle with the fit and balance of this rifle. Throw in the slickest functioning action I've ever worked and accuracy in the .3's and .4's and it was money well spent! That's what a custom rifle should be!

    My LongRifles Inc custom LH .300 WSM built on a Win Model 70 action comes in very close to the fit and balance of the .243 win. It's a tad heavier rifle and adding the muzzle break makes it a smidge front end heavy but not by much! It's also a nail driver shooting in the .4's and '5! This rifle was abusive to shoot when it was first built. Actually Chad said it was on of the most abusive rifles he's ever shot. He recommended his muzzle brake to tame the recoil which worked fantastic. It has the recoil of my .243 win. Can't wait to use it on my Wyoming buffalo hunt this fall.
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Jeff in TX wrote: »
    Hey bud, you nailed it. As for the person who said custom rifles are prey to let downs which I'm reading as unreliable, I doubt they've ever own a rifle built to your own requirements and standards.

    I have two custom rifles built by Chad Dixon at LongRifles Inc. My custom LH .243 Win built on the Tikka T3 action is finest rifle I've ever owned "PERIOD"! Not because of the accuracy which is in the .3's and .4's but the over fit and balance of the rifle. Chad listen to what I wanted as I had very specific requirements in the rifle. Never once did he say it would be easier for me to do it this way. He let me know if something wasn't feasible or wouldn't be functional and why! He took my requirements and used his professional experience and nailed it on the first try.

    When I shoulder this rifle the cheek weld is spot on every time. I never have to make adjustments. I can do it with my eyes closed and when I open my eyes I have a perfect sight picture down the scope every time! The uncanny aspect of the rifle is the balance. When I shouldered it, it just sits there. It's not front end heavy where the barrel wants to dip or too light where it comes up too high. It just sits there. I've never shouldered a factory rifle or anyone's custom rifle with the fit and balance of this rifle. Throw in the slickest functioning action I've ever worked and accuracy in the .3's and .4's and it was money well spent! That's what a custom rifle should be!

    Amen to that Jeff, that's like my three customs. They fit me and are everything I wanted. The main thing is they kill and reliably, when I do my part.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • apb290apb290 New Member Posts: 24 New Member
    I met with a gunsmith today and looking to order everything on Monday, except for the scope, scope base and rings. Thanks again for everyone's help and huge thanks to Snake for talking me into going to see a gunsmith. I am very excited to getting this started and learned a lot from everyone on here and from the gunsmith today.

    I decided on the 300 Win Mag here are the components some may change if lead times are to far out.

    Barrel - Bartlein 1-11 twist 3B Contour fluted and the gunsmith will be cutting down to a 22" barrel then adding a muzzle break

    Action - Jim Borden Timberline with a Jewl trigger setup

    Stock - Mcmillan hunter Edge stock Black with tan and olive specs

    Bottom Gun Metal and trigger guard - Williams BDL

    That is what I have so far let me know if there are any suggestions.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,753 Senior Member
    Curious on the barrel twist and length. Was there a reason behind the decision for both?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,547 Senior Member
    To add to the other questions, who is the gunsmith?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • apb290apb290 New Member Posts: 24 New Member
    The twist was decided based off a chart he had for possible over the counter bullets I could be using. He said 1-10 twist was standard, however he stated if I wanted to I could do a 1-11 twist. As far as the barrel length there were a couple reasons. One was overall weight of the gun and second was adding the muzzle will add onto the barrel. From what I have been reading I did not see a huge change from 24 to 22 inch's in performance. As mentioned I am open for suggestions and have time before I finalize everything.

    The gunsmith is Mike Ezell I went with him because he very close to where I live and was highly recommended by a couple of people that live by me. http://www.ezellcustomrifles.com/.

    I did have a a couple questions regarding scopes. He went over a lot about ffp scopes vs sfp and I have been doing a lot of research tonight and do like the advantages of the ffp scopes. I have never used one all my previous scopes are sfp. What scope do you all recommend for this setup? I would like to stay under $3,000 for a scope and trying to keep this gun setup under 9 and half pounds with the scope. Which I know $3,000 is a lot of money and I will probably not spend close to this. This custom gun project is an investment to me and I want it to be spot on. Thanks again for everyone's comments.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,547 Senior Member
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • apb290apb290 New Member Posts: 24 New Member

    Ernie great post and some amazing guns. That is the exact brand that the gunsmith told me to look at. You made this a lot easier for me only thing I was worried with this scope was the weight. What base and rings did you use or recommend?
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,547 Senior Member
    I will soon have some 34mm Burris Tacticals (new ones with the inserts).
    I use Leupold Mark 4 Rings, NF's, Kelbly's, and Seekins.
    Putting my Kahles on a new rifle that just came in today.
    A 28 Nosler from Long Range Rifles just came in today. Beautiful and lightweight. Still waiting for the brass and dies to make it here though.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,547 Senior Member
    I like Holland's 20 MOA pic rail that has the level built into the back of the picatinny rail.
    There are a lot of good pic rails available.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    apb290 wrote: »
    Ernie great post and some amazing guns. That is the exact brand that the gunsmith told me to look at. You made this a lot easier for me only thing I was worried with this scope was the weight. What base and rings did you use or recommend?

    If it's me I would go 1:10 and possibly 1:9 twist with a minimum 24 inch maybe 26 inch barrel if for no other reason to cut down on Muzzle Blast. With a 22" barrel that .300 Win. Mag. will be a fire breathing dragon. It can lower your MV down to that of some of the lesser 300 mags. From my observation over a Chrony you lose more on a big cased Magnum than on a smaller case round with shortening the barrel. It gets to be a question of "What's the Point of having a Magnum?"
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,547 Senior Member
    Snake,
    Why would he need a 9T or even a 10T, if he is not not going to be shooting bullets that require a faster twist?
    As far as barrel length, he may be only looking for a certain MV level, and a shorter lighter system may be more desirable than the 60 fps or so he would gain with 2 more inches of barrel.
    A couple of my 30's are 10 twist.
    I would only want a 9T if I was using some special bullets, and they are not designed for hunting:
    http://www.warner-tool.com/#!flat-line-projectiles/cw8c
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Snake,
    Why would he need a 9T or even a 10T, if he is not not going to be shooting bullets that require a faster twist?
    As far as barrel length, he may be only looking for a certain MV level, and a shorter lighter system may be more desirable than the 60 fps or so he would gain with 2 more inches of barrel.
    A couple of my 30's are 10 twist.
    I would only want a 9T if I was using some special bullets, and they are not designed for hunting:
    http://www.warner-tool.com/#!flat-line-projectiles/cw8c

    Maybe you"re right, but I just have a feeling he'll grow into it and want heavier, longer bullets. This is all new to him, but wait till he gets bored with Factory rounds and shooting 100 yards. And a 22 inch barrel for a rifle is too short for a .300 Magnum. Just my opinion. In light of what you said about the barrel twist, OK I might agree to a 1:10 but don't you think 1:11 is a little slow?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,617 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Maybe you"re right, but I just have a feeling he'll grow into it and want heavier, longer bullets. This is all new to him, but wait till he gets bored with Factory rounds and shooting 100 yards. And a 22 inch barrel for a rifle is too short for a .300 Magnum. Just my opinion. In light of what you said about the barrel twist, OK I might agree to a 1:10 but don't you think 1:11 is a little slow?

    I have to agree. I'd for sure go 1:10, maybe 1:9, especially with a short, 22" barrel. It would really suck if a brand new, custom 300WM wouldn't stabilize long 180 grain, or 200 gr factory ammo.
    The only reason I can see to go 1:11, is if he intends to load very light bullets, and run them very, very fast, and he's worried about overstablizing.
    For me, I'd go 1:10t, 26"+ brake.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,547 Senior Member
    http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/hunting-bullets/
    You can run fairly heavy VLD's with a 11T
    That being said, my 30 cals are 1-10, with one being a 9.5 Twist
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,494 Senior Member
    apb290 wrote: »
    I met with a gunsmith today and looking to order everything on Monday, except for the scope, scope base and rings. Thanks again for everyone's help and huge thanks to Snake for talking me into going to see a gunsmith. I am very excited to getting this started and learned a lot from everyone on here and from the gunsmith today.

    I decided on the 300 Win Mag here are the components some may change if lead times are to far out.

    Barrel - Bartlein 1-11 twist 3B Contour fluted and the gunsmith will be cutting down to a 22" barrel then adding a muzzle break

    Action - Jim Borden Timberline with a Jewl trigger setup

    Stock - Mcmillan hunter Edge stock Black with tan and olive specs

    Bottom Gun Metal and trigger guard - Williams BDL

    That is what I have so far let me know if there are any suggestions.

    Nice selection of pieces/parts as I call them. Custom guns are what we the shooter specs outs and decides what we want and need. Sometimes our decisions are based on the input from others or what we think we want. Your .300 Win Mag caliber is a whole lot of gun especially with a #3 fluted contour barrel. Have you ever shot a .300 Win Mag? When I had my .300 WSM built I originally wanted a #3 contour barrel and my smith said it wasn't optimal based on my requirements and gave me the reasons for his professional opinion. We went with a #4 contour instead.

    Also, a 300 Win Mag has a very short barrel life of 1000 rounds or less. You've arbitrarily chosen your barrel length/contour/fluting/1:11 twist based on what? A 22" #3 contour barrel has a different weight ratio than the same 22" #3 contour fluted barrel. I'm not beating you up on this only trying to help. Has you or your smith measured your length of pull for the stock or are you going with a stock length. When I had my guns built everything was measured and weighed out. It's one thing to have a custom gun that shoots great, it's another to have it fit you properly and for the gun to have the proper balance. You might be 6'3" or 5'10 or some other height bigger or smaller. Buying a custom gun is not a one size fits all and is more than putting pieces parts together. If you're going to drop $3 to $4 plus grand on a custom rifle you need to think about the bigger picture.

    I can pretty much tell you a 22" #3 fluted contour barrel and McMillan Edge stock is going to create a very light weight hunting rifle which is what you want for carrying in Rockies on an elk hunt. But weight is only one piece of the equation. When you shoulder the rifle blind folded is that rifle going to fit you and be well balanced? How is it going to shoot at the moment of truth. If you practice blind folded and you find yourself making adjustments when you open your eyes the fit and balance wasn't optimal. What I'm saying is, it sounds to me like you have more work to consider before saying this what I want and dropping a few grand down payment. If your smith is agreeing to all this up front and not offering his professional experience and what may or may not work, you might want to reconsider smith. There's lots of machinist doing gun work, but not as many true gunsmiths who truly understand the nuances of building a truly custom rifle that is exactly what their customer wants and will fit them perfectly.

    My advice, first go shoot a light weight 7lb ish 300 Win Mag and see if you like it. Even with a brake you might find it too much gun. Make sure the smith you choose understands the ratios of weight for stocks, barrel length and contour so you get this right the first time. A 22" barrel can't be cut back much with a 300 Win mag and it can't be extended. As Snake 284 said "it can be a fire breathing dragon"! In my original post my .300 WSM is a smidge top heavy and that was by adding the muzzle break as an after thought. The fit and balance was perfect before I added it, but the recoil was unforgivable. And yes, Chad recommended to me up front I needed a muzzle brake on this build and I didn't listen. I wasn't a fan of muzzle brakes then though I am now!

    Best of luck and please don't think I'm raining on your project, just trying to help!
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,753 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    For me, I'd go 1:10t, 26"+ brake.

    If it were my rifle...........this.

    CopyofFinished300RUM3.jpg

    My .300 RUM w/ Holland Brake.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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