Guys, We've Been Well Played.

DanChamberlain

I always thought true conservatives were just a couple steps ahead of the progressives but now I absolutely know we're so far behind it's doubtful we'll ever regain our place as masters of our destiny.

Many years ago, while Marshal Dan was still alive, I started a thread about a mega corporation taking over the vast majority of US firearms manufacturing and how this could one day, based on piece-meal legislation, result in a shut down. I still believe this is possible - but that's not the reason I'm posting this.

As a result of Obama's (and the progressive left's) race baiting and war on police, I saw an article where police are considering up-armoring their patrol cars. This seems a logical imperative since violent attacks on police have sky rocketed.

But, is it in response to an anomaly, or is it in response to a plan? And if it's in response to a plan, is THE response also part of the plan?

Police state coming!

alphasigmookie

Have attacks on police skyrocketed? I'm very dubious of that claim. Murder and general violent crime are down significantly since the 80's. Sounds like just an excuse to spend all the stolen, I mean "civilly forfeighted", cash they've all been bringing in to me. Just more of the same trend of militarization of the police we've been seeing since 9/11.

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alphasigmookie

http://www.aei.org/publication/is-there-really-a-war-on-cops-the-data-show-that-2015-will-likely-be-one-of-the-safest-years-in-history-for-police/



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Diver43

DanChamberlain wrote: »

I always thought true conservatives were just a couple steps ahead of the progressives but now I absolutely know we're so far behind it's doubtful we'll ever regain our place as masters of our destiny.

Many years ago, while Marshal Dan was still alive, I started a thread about a mega corporation taking over the vast majority of US firearms manufacturing and how this could one day, based on piece-meal legislation, result in a shut down. I still believe this is possible - but that's not the reason I'm posting this.

As a result of Obama's (and the progressive left's) race baiting and war on police, I saw an article where police are considering up-armoring their patrol cars. This seems a logical imperative since violent attacks on police have sky rocketed.

But, is it in response to an anomaly, or is it in response to a plan? And if it's in response to a plan, is THE response also part of the plan?

Police state coming!

For some reason I remember this thread and each time a firearms manufacturer files bankruptcy gets a new CEO or moves it pops into my head.
To be honest I did not remember who started the thread, but I remember there was a company becoming an umbrella for smaller gun related companies that if they ever folded or just shut down our gun business would cease to exist.

DanChamberlain

alphasigmookie wrote: »

Have attacks on police skyrocketed? I'm very dubious of that claim. Murder and general violent crime are down significantly since the 80's. Sounds like just an excuse to spend all the stolen, I mean "civilly forfeighted", cash they've all been bringing in to me. Just more of the same trend of militarization of the police we've been seeing since 9/11.

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Violent attacks on police have freaking exploded and deaths due to violence are already setting records. Of course, if you get your news from the networks, they are only reporting on Trump vs Cruz.

early

Well just last weekend in my city, an officer effected a traffic stop on a vehicle driving at night without lights. The motorist greeted him with 5 rounds of 12ga 00 buck. Fortunately the officer had a vest on and survived with non life threatening injuries. The criminal got a chance to plead his case to a higher court. This happened within walking distance of my residence.

One day later a liquor store was robbed in a shopping center where I got a haircut a month or so back. The would be thief led our cities finest in high speed pursuit. Then decided to have a vehicular jousting match badly smashing an almost new patrol car before being apprehended.

Just another weekend in:fan:

alphasigmookie

DanChamberlain wrote: »

Violent attacks on police have freaking exploded and deaths due to violence are already setting records. Of course, if you get your news from the networks, they are only reporting on Trump vs Cruz.

You are wrong.

Statistics i linked to are from the American enterprise Institute, far from a liberal source. Deaths are way down. Hysteria about them is at an all time high though, I'll give you that. Please calm down and stop giving the fear mongers what they want.

Make_My_Day

There have been some very well publicized "assassinations" of police in NYC and other places in the last year, due to reports of BLM'ers and Black Panthers screeching about killing whites and cops, but I'm not sure if statistical averages have been exceeded.

DanChamberlain

alphasigmookie wrote: »

You are wrong.

Statistics i linked to are from the American enterprise Institute, far from a liberal source. Deaths are way down. Hysteria about them is at an all time high though, I'll give you that. Please calm down and stop giving the fear mongers what they want.

Liberals are such poor debaters. We're talking about cop deaths and they're way up this year. It's been publicized quite heavily since the first of the year. Pull your head out.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4821634353001/number-of-cops-killings-up-133-percent-since-last-year/?intcmp=hpvid1#sp=show-clips

alphasigmookie

DanChamberlain wrote: »

Liberals are such poor debaters. We're talking about cop deaths and they're way up this year. It's been publicized quite heavily since the first of the year. Pull your head out.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4821634353001/number-of-cops-killings-up-133-percent-since-last-year/?intcmp=hpvid1#sp=show-clips

But last year was the fewest cop deaths since 1887. Yes that was 18 and not 19. We are less than 3 months into 2016. A bit hard to say that's a major trend, especially when you're talking about something as relatively rare as police deaths. But then that won't stop the media from making a big deal about it to keep you scared, keep you watching, and keep you being willing to accept greater and greater militarization of police forces.

alphasigmookie

I guess it comes down to your definition of "skyrocketed" is. If you classify a handful of additional deaths over a short and arbitrary period relative to a similarly short and arbitrary period the year before, then I apologize.

horselips

I'm not a LEO, but if I were, I would want an armored car. Why not? Come to think of it, even though I'm not a cop, I might want one anyway. And bulletproof glass in my house, and steel doors throughout, and cactus! Lots of cactus under those windows!

Big Chief

alphasigmookie wrote: »

But last year was the fewest cop deaths since 1887. Yes that was 18 and not 19. We are less than 3 months into 2016. A bit hard to say that's a major trend, especially when you're talking about something as relatively rare as police deaths. But then that won't stop the media from making a big deal about it to keep you scared, keep you watching, and keep you being willing to accept greater and greater militarization of police forces.

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html



39............ 1887

123........ 2015

124..........1908

280..........1974

toymachine

I think police cars should probably have reasonable upgrades in bullet resistance. And those upgrades should be available to me or any other civilian, through the dealership, without having to play any games of trying to get "restricted"features on a "non-qualifying" buyer's vehicle.

DanChamberlain

Up 113% in the first 3 months of the year. Summer's coming. The recent spate of deaths have been largely the result of deliberate attacks. We'll see where this goes. But with the hate-monger-in-chief doing everything he can to spread reverse racism, it could be a long, hot summer.

Big Chief

On the news yesterday about protection enhancements to police cars........bullet proof glass/panels that stop .308

Gene L

Cop deaths are way up. I'd heard more than 100%, but don't have the source. Assassinations are WAY up. The murder rate (civilian) in Chicago is higher than deaths in Iraq, and that includes the latest Easter murders.

I don't think Muslims are targeting cops, at least not in America, but there are others who apparently are. Muslims in America are less than 1% of the population. Heard it on The Five yesterday.

tubabucknut

Aaaaaaaand on the flip side.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/03/29/man-fatally-shot-ariz-police-officer-begged-life/82393582/


I would be interested in a compilation of officer involved shootings, and deaths. Are they going up as well? Bet they are. But they are all justified right?



This is not a one sided problem.

Gene L

One incident does not a statistic make. The link you posted was of a LAWYER making a statement. A judge who saw the evidence decided to let the officer remain in service. Or did I miss something?

Every LEO shooting undergoes extensive review. If the victim is a minority, the review is intensified and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and now apparently tubabucknut chimes in.

CaliFFL

tubabucknut wrote: »

This is not a one sided problem.

Agreed.

American police killed 1207 people in 2015.

http://killedbypolice.net/


On the flip side, 128 cops (roughly 10% of citizens killed by police) died in the line of duty in 2015. Less than half of this number (58) were murdered.

https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2015


Seems a bit one sided.

Big Chief

Obammy and BLM have more or less put targets on police officers backs by implying they ALL somehow abuse their powers to use deadly force and therefore are not to be obeyed in a confrontation. In the least, have conveyed the message that they are the enemy of minorities. This will lead to a bad outcome for those who refuse to comply with their instructions and even cause them to hesitate in performing their duties and put their/public lives in danger too.

This day and age, every shootin by a cop will be scrutinized to the nth degree and them some. Feds called in even when it is ruled justified/line of duty to rack the whole department over the coals. Not a good situation. By all means investigate, but keep it fair and impartial so both sides will get a fair shake.

Big Chief

Well, the numbers are gonna be more killed by police because it is their job to enforce the law, the very nature of their work leads to shootouts and confrontations.

How many of those "Citizens" were committing a crime when they got a cap busted on their asses?

Not all were justifiable and it looks like to me in those cases the officers were and are being prosecuted.

CaliFFL

Big Chief wrote: »

How many of those "Citizens" were committing a crime when they got a cap busted on their asses?

The question you should ask is how many weren't committing a crime when killed by police? The next question is how many cops were prosecuted for these killings?

Jermanator

If I were in the business of armoring cop cars, this would be a huge crisis! But I am not, and see this as a scam to enrich a few while fleecing the taxpayers of their law enforcement dollars that could otherwise make their communities better places to live.

Jermanator

You also need to look at the reason that cops died on the job. I am not sure how many of these were murder...
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html

Big Chief

CaliFFL wrote: »

The question you should ask is how many weren't committing a crime when killed by police? The next question is how many cops were prosecuted for these killings?

OK, I'm your Huckleberry.........how many?

CaliFFL

Big Chief wrote: »

OK, I'm your Huckleberry.........how many?

I attached 1207 links in post #20. You'll side with the agents of the state no matter what I say.

alphasigmookie

DanChamberlain wrote: »

Up 113% in the first 3 months of the year. Summer's coming. The recent spate of deaths have been largely the result of deliberate attacks. We'll see where this goes. But with the hate-monger-in-chief doing everything he can to spread reverse racism, it could be a long, hot summer.

Sure we can and should pay attention, but we're still talking about ~10 deaths. These are small numbers in a nation of 300+ million. Also statistics around relatively rare events like this are always scattered and unevenly distributed.

alphasigmookie

The one thing I think we can all agree on is that the situation has become more tense and scrutinized on both sides. Cops have a dangerous job and sometimes some of them get killed. They also have to make split second life or death decisions, and often they make the wrong one. I do think the increased scrutiny is good. There does seem to be some serious cultural problems in some departments that have become overly militerized and authoritarian, acting like they're above the law. Cops need the tools to do their jobs, but they also need to be fully accountable to the public they're paid to serve.

DanChamberlain

alphasigmookie wrote: »

Sure we can and should pay attention, but we're still talking about ~10 deaths. These are small numbers in a nation of 300+ million. Also statistics around relatively rare events like this are always scattered and unevenly distributed.

You see, again this is the reason you guys are clowns when it comes to statistics. 10 deaths in three months and not from a populate of 300 + million, but from a number only of police officers. Keep the demographics pertinent to the discussion.

tubabucknut

Gene L wrote: »

One incident does not a statistic make. The link you posted was of a LAWYER making a statement. A judge who saw the evidence decided to let the officer remain in service. Or did I miss something?

Uhmmm Yes.
The officer has been fired, and is charged with murder. Did you even read the article?