Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

Guys, We've Been Well Played.

DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior MemberPosts: 3,395 Senior Member
I always thought true conservatives were just a couple steps ahead of the progressives but now I absolutely know we're so far behind it's doubtful we'll ever regain our place as masters of our destiny.

Many years ago, while Marshal Dan was still alive, I started a thread about a mega corporation taking over the vast majority of US firearms manufacturing and how this could one day, based on piece-meal legislation, result in a shut down. I still believe this is possible - but that's not the reason I'm posting this.

As a result of Obama's (and the progressive left's) race baiting and war on police, I saw an article where police are considering up-armoring their patrol cars. This seems a logical imperative since violent attacks on police have sky rocketed.

But, is it in response to an anomaly, or is it in response to a plan? And if it's in response to a plan, is THE response also part of the plan?

Police state coming!
It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
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Replies

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,903 Senior Member
    I always thought true conservatives were just a couple steps ahead of the progressives but now I absolutely know we're so far behind it's doubtful we'll ever regain our place as masters of our destiny.

    Many years ago, while Marshal Dan was still alive, I started a thread about a mega corporation taking over the vast majority of US firearms manufacturing and how this could one day, based on piece-meal legislation, result in a shut down. I still believe this is possible - but that's not the reason I'm posting this.

    As a result of Obama's (and the progressive left's) race baiting and war on police, I saw an article where police are considering up-armoring their patrol cars. This seems a logical imperative since violent attacks on police have sky rocketed.

    But, is it in response to an anomaly, or is it in response to a plan? And if it's in response to a plan, is THE response also part of the plan?

    Police state coming!


    For some reason I remember this thread and each time a firearms manufacturer files bankruptcy gets a new CEO or moves it pops into my head.
    To be honest I did not remember who started the thread, but I remember there was a company becoming an umbrella for smaller gun related companies that if they ever folded or just shut down our gun business would cease to exist.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Have attacks on police skyrocketed? I'm very dubious of that claim. Murder and general violent crime are down significantly since the 80's. Sounds like just an excuse to spend all the stolen, I mean "civilly forfeighted", cash they've all been bringing in to me. Just more of the same trend of militarization of the police we've been seeing since 9/11.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

    Violent attacks on police have freaking exploded and deaths due to violence are already setting records. Of course, if you get your news from the networks, they are only reporting on Trump vs Cruz.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Well just last weekend in my city, an officer effected a traffic stop on a vehicle driving at night without lights. The motorist greeted him with 5 rounds of 12ga 00 buck. Fortunately the officer had a vest on and survived with non life threatening injuries. The criminal got a chance to plead his case to a higher court. This happened within walking distance of my residence.

    One day later a liquor store was robbed in a shopping center where I got a haircut a month or so back. The would be thief led our cities finest in high speed pursuit. Then decided to have a vehicular jousting match badly smashing an almost new patrol car before being apprehended.

    Just another weekend in:fan:
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,669 Senior Member
    There have been some very well publicized "assassinations" of police in NYC and other places in the last year, due to reports of BLM'ers and Black Panthers screeching about killing whites and cops, but I'm not sure if statistical averages have been exceeded.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    You are wrong.

    Statistics i linked to are from the American enterprise Institute, far from a liberal source. Deaths are way down. Hysteria about them is at an all time high though, I'll give you that. Please calm down and stop giving the fear mongers what they want.

    Liberals are such poor debaters. We're talking about cop deaths and they're way up this year. It's been publicized quite heavily since the first of the year. Pull your head out.

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/4821634353001/number-of-cops-killings-up-133-percent-since-last-year/?intcmp=hpvid1#sp=show-clips
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I'm not a LEO, but if I were, I would want an armored car. Why not? Come to think of it, even though I'm not a cop, I might want one anyway. And bulletproof glass in my house, and steel doors throughout, and cactus! Lots of cactus under those windows!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    But last year was the fewest cop deaths since 1887. Yes that was 18 and not 19. We are less than 3 months into 2016. A bit hard to say that's a major trend, especially when you're talking about something as relatively rare as police deaths. But then that won't stop the media from making a big deal about it to keep you scared, keep you watching, and keep you being willing to accept greater and greater militarization of police forces.

    http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html



    39............ 1887

    123........ 2015

    124..........1908

    280..........1974
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • toymachinetoymachine Senior Member Posts: 761 Senior Member
    I think police cars should probably have reasonable upgrades in bullet resistance. And those upgrades should be available to me or any other civilian, through the dealership, without having to play any games of trying to get "restricted"features on a "non-qualifying" buyer's vehicle.
    "Is 'milk bottle' literally a racist term?"
    "It is now." - Jack Fraggs
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Up 113% in the first 3 months of the year. Summer's coming. The recent spate of deaths have been largely the result of deliberate attacks. We'll see where this goes. But with the hate-monger-in-chief doing everything he can to spread reverse racism, it could be a long, hot summer.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    On the news yesterday about protection enhancements to police cars........bullet proof glass/panels that stop .308
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,727 Senior Member
    Cop deaths are way up. I'd heard more than 100%, but don't have the source. Assassinations are WAY up. The murder rate (civilian) in Chicago is higher than deaths in Iraq, and that includes the latest Easter murders.

    I don't think Muslims are targeting cops, at least not in America, but there are others who apparently are. Muslims in America are less than 1% of the population. Heard it on The Five yesterday.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Aaaaaaaand on the flip side.


    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/03/29/man-fatally-shot-ariz-police-officer-begged-life/82393582/


    I would be interested in a compilation of officer involved shootings, and deaths. Are they going up as well? Bet they are. But they are all justified right?



    This is not a one sided problem.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,727 Senior Member
    One incident does not a statistic make. The link you posted was of a LAWYER making a statement. A judge who saw the evidence decided to let the officer remain in service. Or did I miss something?

    Every LEO shooting undergoes extensive review. If the victim is a minority, the review is intensified and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and now apparently tubabucknut chimes in.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    This is not a one sided problem.


    Agreed.

    American police killed 1207 people in 2015.

    http://killedbypolice.net/


    On the flip side, 128 cops (roughly 10% of citizens killed by police) died in the line of duty in 2015. Less than half of this number (58) were murdered.

    https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2015


    Seems a bit one sided.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Obammy and BLM have more or less put targets on police officers backs by implying they ALL somehow abuse their powers to use deadly force and therefore are not to be obeyed in a confrontation. In the least, have conveyed the message that they are the enemy of minorities. This will lead to a bad outcome for those who refuse to comply with their instructions and even cause them to hesitate in performing their duties and put their/public lives in danger too.

    This day and age, every shootin by a cop will be scrutinized to the nth degree and them some. Feds called in even when it is ruled justified/line of duty to rack the whole department over the coals. Not a good situation. By all means investigate, but keep it fair and impartial so both sides will get a fair shake.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Well, the numbers are gonna be more killed by police because it is their job to enforce the law, the very nature of their work leads to shootouts and confrontations.

    How many of those "Citizens" were committing a crime when they got a cap busted on their asses?

    Not all were justifiable and it looks like to me in those cases the officers were and are being prosecuted.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    How many of those "Citizens" were committing a crime when they got a cap busted on their asses?


    The question you should ask is how many weren't committing a crime when killed by police? The next question is how many cops were prosecuted for these killings?
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    If I were in the business of armoring cop cars, this would be a huge crisis! But I am not, and see this as a scam to enrich a few while fleecing the taxpayers of their law enforcement dollars that could otherwise make their communities better places to live.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    You also need to look at the reason that cops died on the job. I am not sure how many of these were murder...
    http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    The question you should ask is how many weren't committing a crime when killed by police? The next question is how many cops were prosecuted for these killings?

    OK, I'm your Huckleberry.........how many?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    OK, I'm your Huckleberry.........how many?

    I attached 1207 links in post #20. You'll side with the agents of the state no matter what I say.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Sure we can and should pay attention, but we're still talking about ~10 deaths. These are small numbers in a nation of 300+ million. Also statistics around relatively rare events like this are always scattered and unevenly distributed.

    You see, again this is the reason you guys are clowns when it comes to statistics. 10 deaths in three months and not from a populate of 300 + million, but from a number only of police officers. Keep the demographics pertinent to the discussion.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    One incident does not a statistic make. The link you posted was of a LAWYER making a statement. A judge who saw the evidence decided to let the officer remain in service. Or did I miss something?
    Uhmmm Yes.
    The officer has been fired, and is charged with murder. Did you even read the article?
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Unless the criminals were in the act of committing a violent crime against an officer or a citizen,(where deadly force is justified) then it makes not one ing bit of difference if they were committing a crime. Unless in the situation I mentioned above, cops are not, and never should be, judge jury and executioner.

    Yes, I agree. Must be a situation where deadly force is called for/justified and I thought that was a given in my post intent when I said committing a crime that it would be at that level or escalated to that level like in Ferguson.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    I attached 1207 links in post #20. You'll side with the agents of the state no matter what I say.

    I will side with the truth no matter what any side says, citizens or police or forum members.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,706 Senior Member
    I for one am concerned about this cops vs us or us vs cops; however, anybody thinks it goes!

    We have had this on this forum before and we lost the membership of some real fine people
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    .........................................
    We have had this on this forum before and we lost the membership of some real fine people

    Yes and it doesn't have to be that way.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    You see, again this is the reason you guys are clowns when it comes to statistics. 10 deaths in three months and not from a populate of 300 + million, but from a number only of police officers. Keep the demographics pertinent to the discussion.

    "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.

    The term was popularised in United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli's works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death. Several other people have been listed as originators of the quote, and it is often erroneously attributed to Twain himself.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    A sudden stoppage of newly manufactured small arms would have no influence at all on the ones already in private ownership. Any government squeeze on ammunition sales would result in whole political suicide.

    Armored police cars are afar cry from a police state, and offer very small officer protection in comparison to the enormous cost.

    People that are anti cop change their mind pretty quick when deprived of the rule of law. And people that advocate more draconian, and heavy handed enforcement can change their minds quick when it's their own rights or freedoms being jeopardized.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Well said. I will say though that I don't believe anyone here is "anti-cop". Many of us just believe they are sometimes given too much power and not enough accountability for their actions. Any cop who believes or acts as if he is in any way above the citizens he has sworn to protect is a bad cop IMHO and should be removed from duty post haste.

    :agree::that:
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