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Jayhawker
ModeratorPosts: 15,055 Senior Member
Open Carry...Lesson Delivered
Jayhawker
ModeratorPosts: 15,055 Senior Member
I have a police officer friend that I have known for many years who teaches CPL classes, Officer Survival etc. It was during a class "Street Survival for EMS personnel" that this occurred. One of his students arrived in class open carrying which Chuck took as an opportunity for a teachable moment. After chatting with the guy about the wisdom of walking around with his gun hanging out for the entire world to see, the guy stated that "It was his right and within the law" Chuck did not disagree, Then he advised the guy that sometime during that 8 hour class, he was going to take his gun from him....and even with the warning.... proceeded to do it 16 TIMES during that class. At last report the guy no longer thinks that open carrying is such a great idea...
Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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I rode a few Patriot Guard funeral missions that partnered with the "Iron Order" club, the bunch of JBT motorcycle riders who are mostly off-duty cops. Most of them open carry. Good for them, but it makes them look like a bunch of arrogant ****!
Jerry
ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
BTW, I am someone that supports open carry being legal, but thinks it should only be practiced when absolutely needed. Not just because I can
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
Prime example, we are allowed to carry concealed in a playground area with kids running around, a Chester watch area for sure. I make a slip and my carry is seen ... and some nervous nelly calls the local popo who roll up and approach me. I show my CHP, they acknowledge it and go tell the nelly I'm legal to do so and leave. Now switch it to somebody OCing and you have a longer more drawn out thing where the LEOs will likely do a lot more than just ask a question or 2 and go tell the nelly I am okay. I can see them trying to ID me, possibly run my handgun's serial number, ask way more questions of "why, who, what for, etc" am I carrying on a playground before they tell the nelly I am allowed. My CHP protects me with statue laws not case law (based on written law vs past trial results).
Don't get me wrong, I am not against OCing (and I do every so often) but I prefer to carry concealed and what others don't know or need to know stays my business.
- George Orwell
Statute law trumps Case law. Only problem is you may have to take your case to an appeals court, which will cost you more money than you may have.
This is one of the big reasons for having appeals courts, that is, a bad verdict due to a judge not knowing the law and proper court procedure or more likely not caring and betting on you not appealing the decision.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Exactly, and that is why I have most state's xxxxx.gov website with their current statues regarding concealed carry on my smart phone and when in that state printed out in my vehicle (I do not just rely on the concealed carry websites alone) so I can show any LEO his/her state's statues regarding Concealed Carry ... you can't do that with OC in some states. Now there are states like say Texas where the legislature actually took the time to write laws regarding OC and citizens are thus protected by those written statues vs "well based on Charlotte, NC vs John Doe, we feel ..." BS charges some DA and judge throw at an OCer.
Again don't get me wrong and I think there are tooooooooo many laws on the books but in this case I like having statues to fall back on and say that I am on the correct side of the law where, when, what, how, etc I carry.
Oh yeah, here's a stupid clause in NC's Self Defense statues ... if you are in violation of the law you actually lose your right to use deadly force in protection of you and yours. In other words if you violate the law by carrying concealed where it is illegal by law (government buildings, universities , hospitals, etc) or other gun free zones and use deadly force to stop an attack you could be charged up to man slaughter ... not that you would BUT could.
- George Orwell
He requested that the guy unload his gun for the duration of the class...the guy complied because he didn't believe Chuck could do it...No grappling involved...he simply removed it from the holster while the guy was distracted.
In my world there is a legitimate place for open carry....hunting, pasture patrol, etc...but open carrying in the mall or other "crowded" environments is just asking for trouble...
The main times I OC is when I am coming back from the field (hunting, working on green fields etc) where I'm mainly carrying for protection against snakes and other 2 & 4 legged vermin in the field, and then have to stop and get something to eat/drink/grab something from the store and I'm not in the mood to go to the trouble to take the holster off my belt just for the quick errand before I would have to put it back on and go back to what I was doing.
George Carlin
Should have smacked him in the head with a can of baked beans and had a better look:jester:, you had two good reasons to do this.
There was a few nutters in Portland Oregon open carrying an AR-15, and the Portland Police were very nice and professional, only asked to see a CC permit, and they kept on blah blah blah, throughout the encounter the Police were calm but insistent and finally the moaxes showed their CC permits, problem as the Officers said is people calling 911 every 5 minutes tying up Police resources and I agreed with that point of view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51dTbqLnSaU
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That is My main reason not to open carry, another is, I was getting out of my truck last month and a women commented, look at old white boy packin a Gone !
The other responded, what you expect ???
George Carlin
I was speaking in general terms, including the whole country. Arizona may not be typical, since it has always been a place people move to for greater freedom from over-reaching government.
compared to the norm for this area. It is almost as if they want people to notice them and see their gun.
The above excludes those in or looking like they are headed for some wild lands area.
Still, one wiley grocery store employee with a can of baked beans and the OC'er would be looking for his gun.
Nobody that works there would try to take his gun without him giving reason. Once he gives reason, they won't do it then either. I won't speak for customers.
George Carlin
I am just saying it is a bad idea to open carry in general, a grocery store is just one place that is loaded with potential things that would assist a less ethical person in relieving him of his gun, someone more educated in such things, like yourself, it would be a simple thing to take his gun, better to keep it concealed.
Personally, I find it much more comfortable, and safe, to just fly under the radar and look like a sheep until it's time not to be a sheep. I don't have a problem with those that do open carry, and I've seen a few here, but they sure don't seem to have a lot of situational awareness when doing so. In places where open carry is the only legal option I sure hope that people doing so watch their blind spots carefully on an ongoing basis; kind of like driving, those rear view mirrors can come in handy to avoid problems.
I hear this time and time again from people who are against open carry. I open carried LEGALLY from the time I was 16 to 1994 when we had CCW finally signed into law. Many of my like minded friends also open carried during this time period which covers well over a decade. Not once did any of us get "bonked on the head with a can of baked beans and relieved of our firearm." The closest we came to that was OC'ing in Park Mall and after FOUR HOURS a security guard with a night stick ordered me and my friend to leave. He reached out to take my friend's Smith and Wesson Model 28 out of his holster and stopped only when he was informed that attempted theft of a firearm might have some negative consequences. We did follow the law and left the area immediately, but it wasn't until AFTER that that they put of visible signs.
I believe that 90% of people who re adamantly against open carry are from places where it hasn't been the norm for many decades, so they are educated by cultural norms to believe guns in the open are bad. That's fine, no issues, but as I said, in our little corner of the universe, Free AZ is a pretty good experiment in both open carry and Constitutional Carry and how well they work in real life. Still have a better homicide rate in Phoenix than Detroit, Chicago or L.A. :cool:
I'm right there with you, Tennmike and others. I have no problem with somebody else OCing, but I don't think I would have a lot of use for it. Maybe like Wambli mentioned, on the way home from the range or some such...I just thought it was interesting, the dude OCing and wearing a slogan hat. Might as well make two statements instead of just one, right? :tooth:
George Carlin
A nice wish, not as true as it should be. You know Fobus plastic holsters? I know a major agency that ISSUES that junk. Gah.
I have had weapon retention training, required to take it every year. However, I think you missed the point I made - I don't hear of it happening out here. I might have missed a report once in a while, but most times it's cops getting guns snatched, not civvies. I HAVE seen some guys who had either rigs so badly made/positioned that a child could have disarmed them, or so deep in Condition White that they could have been easily "taken out", not arguing that point whatsoever. Doesn't change the point - if it was so commonplace, I think we'd hear a heck of a lot more about it than we do, especially with a hostile new media. I'm going to bow out of this one because I'm making the case for academic purposes only - I conceal 99% of the time because I prefer to blend in as well. I just don't like OC people who AREN'T causing hate and discontent getting a bad rap.
:beer: