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Deer hunters face unwanted competition as feral hog explosion thins herds

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
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I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
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Replies

  • toymachinetoymachine Senior Member Posts: 761 Senior Member
    I'm not sure what's going on in each of the affected states, but I'd think the Fish and Game departments should be publicizing hog hunting opportunities, whether the meat is safe (some sources claim it is, some claim it isn't, might depend on location), various tips and programs like they have with deer hunting. Maybe taxidermists should run specials on hog mounts. Anybody with a stake in deer hunting, financial or otherwise, should be promoting hog hunting as well. Seems like the outdoors media has been on this kick for a few years, now. Anybody have examples of similar programs from your local Fish and Game dept. or hunting retailer/outfitter/guide/etc.? They may have been mentioned elsewhere, but this seems like a good place to centralize the information.
    "Is 'milk bottle' literally a racist term?"
    "It is now." - Jack Fraggs
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    I've beat my drum and pounded my tambourine on our Forum, and a couple of others similar to ours here, about how damaging feral hogs are to the natural environment! Kill everyone that you can! Gut shoot the damn things and hope they suffer a slow, disease ridden death if you can't get a good enough shot to bust 'em outright....a feral hog is the RADICAL ISLAMIST of the animal world! Coyotes that everyone wants to blame for deer and especially fawn mortality can't hold a candle to feral hogs. I don't say this unknowingly....its based on working in forest and wildlife management about 50 years.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    My friends in TX who hunt them say there are virtually no restrictions, day/night/Hi-cap mags/lights/bait/caliber-gun any which way you want. Ranchers and farmers welcome folks to kill the destructive buggers.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Don't have them here. I gather from Zee's posts and a few others that they require sinificant investment of time just to make a dent.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Ranchers and farmers welcome folks to kill the destructive buggers.


    I lived in Texas from 1986 to 1994 and the wild hogs were just starting to spread but the farmers and ranchers thought that it would be an opportunity to make a couple of bucks by letting people hunt them for money. Most of the ranches within a few hours of Fort Worth wanted at least 300.00 per pig depending on the size. Only a tourist from a northern state would pay that so the hog populations continued to grow to epidemic proportions and now the ranchers are crying and having to pay people to control their hog outbreaks. If the Texas farmers and ranchers hàdn't gotten greedy at the first sign of hogs, they may have been kept in check for a while longer.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 5,062 Senior Member
    Florida as most of you know is overrun with hogs, we have 167 wildlife Management Areas (WMA), some as small as 5 acre's many 20,000 to 30,000 acre's and the largest is 728,274 acre's. The only time one can hunt them is during regular hunting season, and a lot of them are limited access. I have asked many wildlife officers why they don't allow year round hog only hunting, to date I have never received a sensible answer.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    I'm sure the folks that write the rules at the FWC got their positions buy some other reason than being qualified as many of the decisions that they make defy logic. Another example is the python problem in the Everglades where they have seasons when they should allow them to be killed any time of the year.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,189 Senior Member
    In Kansas, the Department of Agriculture deals with feral hogs...KDPW wants to discourage hog hunting as a sport in hopes that folks won't turn loose trapped feral hogs in ordeer to hunt them. They will ignore the manageable feral hog population until it becomes unmanageable. Hell even MI has "shoot on sight" provisions for feral hogs...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    TN finally pulled their heads out of their posteriors, partially, and delisted hogs as game animals.........except on wildlife management areas. Who was the brain cell deficient jellyfish that thought up that bit of fecal matter? On private land you can kill all you want, though.

    In plowed/planted fields, a herd of wild hogs make the ground look like a demented rotor tiller got turned loose. And they are pure hell on small ground dwelling furbearers like baby rabbits in the nest, and destroy gamebird nests with gusto. And then there's eating every acorn and anything edible in the woods leaving nothing for other wildlife. Baby deer that will lay there until the hog has latched onto them and it's too late to escape. And they are a particular hell with newborn calves when other food is scarce.

    And it's easier to make a list of things a hog WON'T eat than it is to make a list of what they WILL eat, which is darned near EVERYTHING. Hogs will even eat coal and busted up clay pigeons on trap and skeet ranges.

    Rabbits multiply; hogs reproduce on a logarithmic scale.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    toymachine wrote: »
    I'm not sure what's going on in each of the affected states, but I'd think the Fish and Game departments should be publicizing hog hunting opportunities, whether the meat is safe (some sources claim it is, some claim it isn't, might depend on location), various tips and programs like they have with deer hunting. Maybe taxidermists should run specials on hog mounts. Anybody with a stake in deer hunting, financial or otherwise, should be promoting hog hunting as well. Seems like the outdoors media has been on this kick for a few years, now. Anybody have examples of similar programs from your local Fish and Game dept. or hunting retailer/outfitter/guide/etc.? They may have been mentioned elsewhere, but this seems like a good place to centralize the information.

    Well if the meat isn't safe then a whole lots of us are dead. Also, if it isn't safe then Venision or rabbit or nothing safe. It tastes too good not to be safe. Just like any pork, it needs to be cooked.

    The problem isn't the meat. At risk of repetition, I hear farmers and ranchers bitching about hogs all the time. But you ask one if you can shoot hogs on his place and the first thing he'll do is demand money. Screw 'em.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    In Missouri the conservation department (fish and game police) are actively trapping them on public ground. There is a motion to BAN hunting them on those public areas. They say that hunters run the hogs away from the baited/trap area. They say they catch more than hunters kill. I can't say, as I don't have the data to prove otherwise. They would still be fair game on orivate land though. Of course, in Missouri any nuisance animal be it a pig, deer, or squirrel can be killed out of season at will if you are protecting crops or livestock. Just have to let them know after the fact. And you can't keep the animal. It basically goes to waste. Save for pigs, you just shoot and move on.


    In Texas those rules about not keeping the animal only pertain to game animals that are eating your crops, not non game and hogs are not considered game animals here. You can shoot hogs and keep the meat (as long as you're not tresspassing on someone's land that doesn't want you there) day, night, anytime with anything, as long as the method you're using is safe. They don't care.
    For instance you can't shoot hogs or anything from a public road.

    About 30 years ago some dufuss biologist in Austin that worked for TPWD suggested they put a limit and season on hogs. To say that his suggestion was NOT received well is a gross understatement.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    Don't have them here. I gather from Zee's posts and a few others that they require sinificant investment of time just to make a dent.

    I heard they were in the Platte river drainage in Nebraska. I don't think we're immune in Colorado & Wyoming. Time will tell.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Well if the meat isn't safe then a whole lots of us are dead. Also, if it isn't safe then Venision or rabbit or nothing safe. It tastes too good not to be safe. Just like any pork, it needs to be cooked.

    The problem isn't the meat. At risk of repetition, I hear farmers and ranchers bitching about hogs all the time. But you ask one if you can shoot hogs on his place and the first thing he'll do is demand money. Screw 'em.
    That's what I heard from Texas friends too Snake....the farmers and ranchers want money from the state (hunter's license fees) for damage to their crops, they also demand money from Hunters to shoot them. Talk about stupid greed, there it is. IMO if ranchers & farmers collect damage fees from the State, they should allow free access to legal hunters to remove the hogs. You can always spot a rancher here in Wyoming...they're the ones with the big cowboy hat with their hand held out.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,324 Senior Member
    That's what I heard from Texas friends too Snake....the farmers and ranchers want money from the state (hunter's license fees) for damage to their crops, they also demand money from Hunters to shoot them. Talk about stupid greed, there it is. IMO if ranchers & farmers collect damage fees from the State, they should allow free access to legal hunters to remove the hogs. You can always spot a rancher here in Wyoming...they're the ones with the big cowboy hat with their hand held out.


    WOW, I always thought the ranchers out west were the gentlemen of America. Polite to a lady and the first to lend a hand if needed. Times surely have changed.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,167 Senior Member
    Texas has always had a pretty good attitude toward hogs.

    Shoot em all. Let the hunters and scavengers sort em out.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 5,062 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    . Another example is the python problem in the Everglades where they have seasons when they should allow them to be killed any time of the year.

    One of the stupidest things FWC ever came up with, they want to be able to track there locations, attention FWC ya know that big swamp from Lake Okeechobee south, its called the Everglades, that's where they are. What is wrong with just shooting them and let the gators and buzzards eat them. The same should apply to hogs.

    I saw in the news that 2 Green Anacondas were caught in Brevard County, if they think Pythons are a problem, wait until they have to deal with something that can eat a calf.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Rabbits multiply; hogs reproduce on a logarithmic scale.


    According to this article, Texas needs to kill 70% of their feral hog population every year just to stabilize them. They're averaging about 29% so the populations keep growing. http://www.chron.com/sports/outdoors/article/Texas-losing-war-on-feral-hogs-4685490.php
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,324 Senior Member
    I have done the wild hog hunting thing here in Florida a few times now. On a pay to hunt our ranch type place where they put you in a stand and then take you out in a swamp buggy, everyone did well.
    The wild on your own not so good.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,167 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    According to this article, Texas needs to kill 70% of their feral hog population every year just to stabilize them. They're averaging about 29% so the populations keep growing. http://www.chron.com/sports/outdoors/article/Texas-losing-war-on-feral-hogs-4685490.php

    Here is the problem- Pigs are smart. If you have 10 pigs come into your trap/ feeder/ minefield, etc... and just ONE gets away- it can ruin your use of that method for the future. That pig will recognize the setup next time, spook out and run. The other pigs will learn to spook and run at the same thing, even though they have never experienced it.

    Thats why large traps are mmore effective than spotlights, feeders, ambushes, etc... Because with a large trap you can catch a whole sounder and destroy them all.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • toymachinetoymachine Senior Member Posts: 761 Senior Member
    That's what I heard from Texas friends too Snake....the farmers and ranchers want money from the state (hunter's license fees) for damage to their crops, they also demand money from Hunters to shoot them. Talk about stupid greed, there it is. IMO if ranchers & farmers collect damage fees from the State, they should allow free access to legal hunters to remove the hogs. You can always spot a rancher here in Wyoming...they're the ones with the big cowboy hat with their hand held out.

    Well, hell, if you shoot the feral hogs, they won't be damaging the crops, and the farmer won't be getting as big a check from the government. Crop prices sure as heck ain't gonna make up the difference.
    "Is 'milk bottle' literally a racist term?"
    "It is now." - Jack Fraggs
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    A very deadly poison (Timic) used with extreme caution is POSSIBLY the answer in SOME situations, but using it is extremely dangerous and is illegal in every state and beyond. The residual effect cannot be controlled, and is passed down the line to any other animal that eats one initially poisoned with it. I'm aware of it having been used for "attempted" coyote control, and I've seen what will result. A $350,000. fine in one case!

    I've often wondered if some type of radioactive beam delivered electronically couldn't be devised and used by game commissions under extremely tight control measures. I know aboard ship radar beams will "cook" a seagull 30-40 feet from the transmitter dish if on high intensity search: tennmike may have seen this since he was in "Tin Cans" also. Something like this to so damage internal organs that a feral hog would die in hours to a few days. Am I way out in "left field" thinking something like this might work?
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,493 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Here is the problem- Pigs are smart. If you have 10 pigs come into your trap/ feeder/ minefield, etc... and just ONE gets away- it can ruin your use of that method for the future. That pig will recognize the setup next time, spook out and run. The other pigs will learn to spook and run at the same thing, even though they have never experienced it. .

    I'll agree to disagree with this statement. The reason is I know first hand this is incorrect. We've trapped many hogs on a friend of mines place. He has a rickety old shoot we use to get the hogs out of the trap and into the cage on the truck. On occasion moving multiple hogs the shoot walls give a bit and leave an opening and one or few escape. We've caught the same hogs but in a different location though same type of trap. How do we know they're the same hogs, by looking at the pictures on the game cameras covering the traps and feeders. The white base colored hogs or hogs with white spots make them easy to identify and re-identify!
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,175 Senior Member
    A very deadly poison (Timic) used with extreme caution is POSSIBLY the answer in SOME situations, but using it is extremely dangerous and is illegal in every state and beyond. The residual effect cannot be controlled, and is passed down the line to any other animal that eats one initially poisoned with it. I'm aware of it having been used for "attempted" coyote control, and I've seen what will result. A $350,000. fine in one case!

    I've often wondered if some type of radioactive beam delivered electronically couldn't be devised and used by game commissions under extremely tight control measures. I know aboard ship radar beams will "cook" a seagull 30-40 feet from the transmitter dish if on high intensity search: tennmike may have seen this since he was in "Tin Cans" also. Something like this to so damage internal organs that a feral hog would die in hours to a few days. Am I way out in "left field" thinking something like this might work?
    Probably size and weight of the xmiter and the pwr supply would be a problem at this time.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,167 Senior Member
    Jeff in TX wrote: »
    I'll agree to disagree with this statement. The reason is I know first hand this is incorrect. We've trapped many hogs on a friend of mines place. He has a rickety old shoot we use to get the hogs out of the trap and into the cage on the truck. On occasion moving multiple hogs the shoot walls give a bit and leave an opening and one or few escape. We've caught the same hogs but in a different location though same type of trap. How do we know they're the same hogs, by looking at the pictures on the game cameras covering the traps and feeders. The white base colored hogs or hogs with white spots make them easy to identify and re-identify!

    Huh. I have had some spook as soon as they see the trap, or just for what seems like no reason. Not going to argue your experience, though
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,167 Senior Member
    A very deadly poison (Timic) used with extreme caution is POSSIBLY the answer in SOME situations, but using it is extremely dangerous and is illegal in every state and beyond. The residual effect cannot be controlled, and is passed down the line to any other animal that eats one initially poisoned with it. I'm aware of it having been used for "attempted" coyote control, and I've seen what will result. A $350,000. fine in one case!

    I've often wondered if some type of radioactive beam delivered electronically couldn't be devised and used by game commissions under extremely tight control measures. I know aboard ship radar beams will "cook" a seagull 30-40 feet from the transmitter dish if on high intensity search: tennmike may have seen this since he was in "Tin Cans" also. Something like this to so damage internal organs that a feral hog would die in hours to a few days. Am I way out in "left field" thinking something like this might work?

    Why not just use a rife at that point?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,956 Senior Member

    I've often wondered if some type of radioactive beam delivered electronically couldn't be devised and used by game commissions under extremely tight control measures. I know aboard ship radar beams will "cook" a seagull 30-40 feet from the transmitter dish if on high intensity search: tennmike may have seen this since he was in "Tin Cans" also. Something like this to so damage internal organs that a feral hog would die in hours to a few days. Am I way out in "left field" thinking something like this might work?
    "Death Ray being used by government." Just a wee bit of bad publicity on that.

    It probably take a LOT of power to power up that radar beam on a shipboard radar, so I doubt that such a power source would be portable in a field setting. Costs would be pretty high, and most game agencies are scrapping for money. Plus the red tape to get permitted to employ such a device would be horrendous. Some of the older methods of controlling or monitoring fish and game populations are no longer employed because the federal red tape and logistics associated with using and storing those items are cost and time prohibitive.

    Also such a ray would probably have deleterious effects on surrounding forest habitats. Habitats that are managed by timber companies, state forestry services, and other such things. If that's the case then part of the game agency's budget would probably have to be spent on reimbursing the land provider for lost income on trees and other things.

    As bullsi said, a rifle would be easier and cheaper, most likely.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    There aren't many in Michigan and I hope it stays that way. For the ones that are, it is anytime/anywhere as long as you have a hunting license of some sort or a CPL.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    [/B]

    WOW, I always thought the ranchers out west were the gentlemen of America. Polite to a lady and the first to lend a hand if needed. Times surely have changed.
    I never heard them called gentlemen...plenty I've seen won't remove their hat indoors or in the presence of a lady. Both are just common courtesy gestures.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    toymachine wrote: »
    Well, hell, if you shoot the feral hogs, they won't be damaging the crops, and the farmer won't be getting as big a check from the government. Crop prices sure as heck ain't gonna make up the difference.

    If you can't make a business successful without government help, maybe it's time to change occupations. Ethanol producers come instantly to mind. There's a wasteful and unneeded program.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    The article that I linked mentioned the testing of sodium nitrite as a poison to use on the feral hog epidemic. It was apparently used successfully in Australia to reduce their feral hog populations by 89%.

    If any of you are in south central Alabama and have a problem with feral hogs, you can thank the idiot that owns the hunting club that I used to belong to. When he bought his land twentysome years ago, he thought that it would be cool to have wild hogs to hunt so he drove down to central Florida somewhere and bought a trailerfull of trapped feral hogs and took them back to his place and released them. He bragged about it for years and it was common knowledge in the area that he did it but when people started getting crop damage in the Dozier- Brantley area, he fell out of favor with his neighbors and started denying bringing the hogs in. Now there are huge groups of hogs traveling up and down the Patsaliga river rooting up crops and reproducing.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
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