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What would you do if you were POTUS

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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Putin is going to rub obummer's nose in his own crap for as long as he can because he knows the lily-livered coward won't put up a fight.
    Actually, they have been rubbing Obama's face in THEIR crap...
    http://www.newsweek.com/putin-inspired-cafe-obama-toilet-paper-opens-russia-444902
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    The proper Cold War response is to conduct training exercises in strategic places, double the arms shipments to Ukraine, and harass them a little bit, here and there. Just enough to shoot the finger to them, and let them know that we don't get pushed around by any third rate military 'powers.' This is nothing more than Putin bullying our pu$$y president...because that's what bullies do.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Back during the Iran hostage crisis, I pitched an idea to the company that provided the $100.00 bill toilet paper to novelty shops. I wanted them to print toilet paper with ayatollah Khomeni's face on it. None of them believed the crisis was going to last long enough to make a profit at it. bad call!
    Jerry
  • shushshush Senior Member Posts: 6,259 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    ........................................ "playing the game"...

    :that:

    I have heard a few "tales", I'll tell you.

    No hustle and bustle, just the odd "sneaky".

    _71679584_2009.0009.34a.jpg

    HM Submarine Ocelot.


    "Those who volunteered to serve knew conditions would be primitive and very dangerous................ for many of these young men it was the "operational reward" - a rare chance in the Cold War to go head-to-head with the enemy, and in a world-class warship.

    Or, as Wacker puts it, "it was a bit of a Boy's Own adventure".

    "You knew you were about to go off on a real sneaky, though," says Nobby, "because someone would paint out the numbers on the conning tower."


    "Life on a British Cold War submarine."
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25019489


    "One of the "exercises" involved the boat sitting undetected on the bottom of the sea, quietly gathering information on an enemy ship above.

    The men followed a "silent routine", as the enemy sonar operator would have literally been able to hear a spanner drop on the Ocelot. Communicating in whispers, they also put rubber mats on the floor and crept about in rubber-soled shoes."


    "Food was better than general service [surface ships], remembers Wacker, I never had a bad dinner.
    "Babies' heads" (steak and kidney puddings) and "train smash" (tinned tomatoes and bacon) and other tastefully named meals were cooked by a chef in the galley...................................

    Besides tea and coffee, the day's liquid intake included the famous Navy rum ration.......................... Billy remembers the wave of excitement when up spirits" was announced.
    "The rum was like honey - everyone would cheer."


    _71681869_groupshot_chatham.jpg

    The 'Queen's pirates'.


    PS.

    "The Ministry of Defence have yet to release in-depth papers relating to the specific operations and campaigns that Ocelot was involved in. However the fairly routine navigational records of her logs provide an overall idea of her history. After being commissioned on the 5th of January 1964 Ocelot joined the Third Submarine Squadron based at HMNB Clyde at Faslane. It is known that in the first three years of commission Ocelot sailed over 90,000 miles engaged in exercises and trials around the Clyde and Londonderry areas as well as in the Mediterranean, and in 1965 the Baltic."
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Actually, they have been rubbing Obama's face in THEIR crap...
    http://www.newsweek.com/putin-inspired-cafe-obama-toilet-paper-opens-russia-444902
    Thats funny, and I want a roll.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Here's what I would do: Go find one (or several) of their ships to fly over. Tweak the Bear's nose, so to speak. Something to think about: They are reminding us just whose backyard this is...sure it's 'international' water, but this us their turf. What harm is there in allowing them to 'win' this particular pissing contest? I know we have to gird our loins against the spread of evil communism, but not everything that happens out there has to become a U.S. chest thumping moment. We don't always have to throw a beat down.


    Incidentally, the book Tuba posted about: "Blind Man's Bluff" is an excellent read.:up:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    I was in college with a nuke off a destroyer. The trawlers followed them all over. He told me one time they painted a sheet of plywood with a pejorative about a russian mother in russian on it and tossed it over the side. The "fishermen" picked up anything that fell off the boat, so they watched them through binoculars when the plywood got to them.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,150 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    The proper Cold War response is to conduct training exercises in strategic places, double the arms shipments to Ukraine, and harass them a little bit, here and there. Just enough to shoot the finger to them, and let them know that we don't get pushed around by any third rate military 'powers.' This is nothing more than Putin bullying our pu$$y president...because that's what bullies do.

    Or just let one of our nuke boomers get right up underneath a Russian carrier, and ping it once or twice with active sonar. Then fade back into the depths
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 7,939 Senior Member
    I'd give fish the vote and make people wear their underwear outside their clothes.

    Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want that job. It has to be the hardest in the world.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    The U.S. can't unleash hellfire and brimstone. They're the good guys. Rainbows and kittens, maybe.

    The Soviets could. They were the evil empire.

    I know you say that as a joke, but that's the way it seems to play out, but when we have pc conscious leaders that's the order of the day.

    No, I don't think Reagan or anyone else sane would have bombed Moscow, but I believe in any other administration the ships would have had preclearance to defend themselves. Maybe they did, maybe the captain of the vessel didn't think it was a threat. But how was he to know it wasn't a threat? By the time those jets were that close it probably would have been too late to do anything had they really attacked. This crap reminds me of just before Pearl Harbor when we had rows of planes lined up on air fields in Hawaii and the Philippines and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Do we ever learn?
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Planes and ships have disappeared under suspicious circumstances on both sides for decades. It's just a little harder to get away with it these days, given the satellite tracking and almost instantaneous communications capabilities we have now. Putin is going to rub obummer's nose in his own crap for as long as he can because he knows the lily-livered coward won't put up a fight. Unfortunately, that cowardice just might get some patriotic young men, my grandson included, killed in the process!
    Jerry

    Agreed, I have a son and two nephews in that category too! I fail to see the humor in letting those jets fly away unscathed.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    OK People, think about this. That ship has air defenses. Any plane that comes within a defense perimeter should be shot down way before it got that close. By that time it was too late. And how would the ship know what the jets were doing? How would the captain know they didn't mean to attack? They were right on top of that ship. The captain had no clue if the jets were armed or not. And also Why didn't that ship have air cover? And Putin should know that if he has jets within striking distance of the ship that the ship would take defensive action. This stinks! Something seems fishy.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Wow! Just saw something that almost made me choke on my Wheaties! But thank God I wasn't eating Wheaties at the time, or anything else. John Kerry even said that the ship would have been Justified in shooting down the planes. He actually acted pissed off that it happened. I guess he does have a few more balls than Obummer, though not a whole lot more.

    Well then again, that's not a real big accomplishment to have more balls than Obummer!

    :tooth:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Wow! Just saw something that almost made me choke on my Wheaties! But thank God I wasn't eating Wheaties at the time, or anything else. John Kerry even said that the ship would have been Justified in shooting down the planes. He actually acted pissed off that it happened. I guess he does have a few more balls than Obummer, though not a whole lot more.

    Well then again, that's not a real big accomplishment to have more balls than Obummer!

    :tooth:

    And, had the captain done ANYTHING other than EXACTLY what he did, we would be talking about him being tried for. Some sort of crime.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,398 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Maybe they did, maybe the captain of the vessel didn't think it was a threat.
    They do.
    But how was he to know it wasn't a threat?
    unarmed, no lock on.
    By the time those jets were that close it probably would have been too late to do anything had they really attacked.
    Nope. The fact that they were that close is a good indicator that it wasnt a attack. They arent going to engage with a handgun.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,920 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    OK People, think about this. That ship has air defenses. Any plane that comes within a defense perimeter should be shot down way before it got that close. By that time it was too late. And how would the ship know what the jets were doing? How would the captain know they didn't mean to attack? They were right on top of that ship. The captain had no clue if the jets were armed or not. And also Why didn't that ship have air cover? And Putin should know that if he has jets within striking distance of the ship that the ship would take defensive action. This stinks! Something seems fishy.

    According to an interview with the ships Captain, the planes were detected 100 miles off...so them showing up wasn't any kind of surprise. Again I ask...Defend themselves against WHAT? Unarmed aircraft? I suspect the Russians were kinda hoping that the ships Captain would do a "John Kerry" and open fire...Kerrys stance doesn't suprise me all that much becasue he's an idiot....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    I am pretty certain that the ship had the Russian planes locked in and targeted long before they got close. So while the Russian jets were playing, "Could have killed you" I am sure we were saying the same. It is the same Cold War games they have been playing for decades.

    Varmintmist...
    http://www.spencersonline.com/product/obama-toilet-paper/92849.uts?Extid=sf_froogle&utm_campaign=RKG_-_Shopping_-_Fun_%26_Games&utm_medium=paid&utm_source=google&utm_term=180147228548product_type_l1fun_%26_games%26product_type_l2toys%26custom2&utm_content=Toys&utm_inex=e&adpos=1o2&creative=113052401348&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&product_id=02437473&gclid=CJ70mOGWkcwCFYsAaQodD_cNlQ
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    According to an interview with the ships Captain, the planes were detected 100 miles off...so them showing up wasn't any kind of surprise. Again I ask...Defend themselves against WHAT? Unarmed aircraft? I suspect the Russians were kinda hoping that the ships Captain would do a "John Kerry" and open fire...Kerrys stance doesn't suprise me all that much becasue he's an idiot....


    Well you'll get no argument out of me for that! And also he said it after the fact when words are cheap. But even at that it did surprise me he'd say it. But he probably still has more balls than Obummer.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    And, had the captain done ANYTHING other than EXACTLY what he did, we would be talking about him being tried for. Some sort of crime.


    Now you just made a point of mine. I'm sure in Obummer's administration what you said is probably true. The Captain would have been on the hotseat for sure, but I can't help believe that a Reagan or Bush or even a Carter wouldn't have faulted the captain for taking defensive action.

    However, thinking of all this, maybe the Russians were baiting us, trying to get us to do something. Of course I doubt the Russian pilots were suicidal.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Now you just made a point of mine. I'm sure in Obummer's administration what you said is probably true. The Captain would have been on the hotseat for sure, but I can't help believe that a Reagan or Bush or even a Carter wouldn't have faulted the captain for taking defensive action.

    However, thinking of all this, maybe the Russians were baiting us, trying to get us to do something. Of course I doubt the Russian pilots were suicidal.


    I didn't 'make your point', I made a counter point. Namely, the SU24s were no threat. They knew the planes were in the area, they knew when they turned in, they knew there was no radar lock. In short, had the captain done what you think our '' president should have ordered him to, he would have been comitting a crime.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Back in the '70s we played the same game and so did the Russians. It got a little rough at times. I know we lit them up more than a few times with the missile fire control radar just to fry the paint off the close passers. :roll2: Different times back then. Even had Bear bombers do some low (500 foot high) passes over the carrier group pretty regularly, and always escorted by a few F4 Phantoms just in case they did something stupid like open the bomb bay doors.

    All y'all wouldn't believe some of the shenanigans that went on out there. Like about 50 sailors mooning the bridge of a Russian destroyer that got too close to our fantail once. Or a Russian destroyer that barely escaped being cut in half by a carrier that refused to change course while taking on a F4 in bad trouble. Little destroyer didn't cut in front of the carrier again; playing chicken with a big boy isn't smart, especially in an emergency.

    Captain of the ship in question did the right thing. Just let the Russian jet jockeys have their fun; no harm, no foul. The jets weren't armed with missiles; don't know about guns, but it would have been suicide to open fire with guns. Even if they had been armed with missiles, as long as they were just doing flybys and having a little fun, no harm was done. That ship has lots of nasty SAMs it can expend on short notice. It would have been kinda stupid on their part if they'd painted the ship with fire control radar. Nobody got hurt, and we got some video of their jets for future reference. And I don't mean amateur sailor video.

    Along with what Jayhawker was saying, I was a lowly missile house guard for a LOT of hours. I do know that more than a few times, the missile techs had missiles loaded on the rails inside the missile house during some sketchy Russian jet and ship shenanigans. The inner and outer access hatches were open to the missile house, so I had a good view of what was going on inside. Took about one second to open the outer missile house doors and another second to ram the missiles on the firing rails.

    As to the Russian warships I observed back then close up at sea, they were a bit blustery on their readiness. As in having missiles on the rails when they were close to us, or us close to them. Intimidation tactic at best. Anyway, we had at least one fast attack sub poking around with the carrier group, so we did have at least one ace up our sleeve.

    The whole incident is much ado about nothing. Russians just being Russians. Now if those had been Iranian jets, I'd hope the Captain would light them up with fire control radar for missiles and phalanx guns. Just to let them know that they were being more than watched. And same for the Chinese; they're both batscat crazy.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    It seems to me that rules of engagement are in place covering these types of encounters. I doubt that coming at a war ship at 25 feet and 500 kts
    and then over flying the boat is within the ROE. Even though electronic emissions may not have been detected coming from the weapon systems
    of the Russian jet he still could have been a threat. I'm well aware these shenanigans occur all the time, however, coming at a war ship 90 degrees abeam
    low and fast seems to me to show hostile intent, under those conditions, low and fast, at 15 miles I believe the Capt would have been justified in locking
    him up and giving notice the fun and games are over. JMO
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    I've got a feeling the Russians were under orders to buzz the Americans.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I've got a feeling the Russians were under orders to buzz the Americans.

    For sure
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    Putin in some ways reminds me of Stalin/Andropov.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    I've got a feeling the Russians were under orders to buzz the Americans.

    No doubt about that. The Russian military has detailed plans and order of battle just to take a crap in a slit trench. With the weakness being shown by the POTUS that is being made manifest in the military, the Russians feel no fear of doing such shenanigans. Might be a new cold war looming if the U.S. military forces aren't allowed to do what they do best. And by new cold war, I'm not necessarily pointing a finger at Russia. China is the bigger and more immediate threat, and has been for a while. Our Pacific Fleet is a shadow of its former self; our absence in that region is very conspicuous. Until we resume having a good sized carrier group in the Med like we used to have, things with Russia will continue to deteriorate. They no longer see NATO as the deterrent it once was, and now see it as weak and indecisive. And they're right.

    Obama's foreign policy reminds me of a scared little puppy dog that rolls over on its back and pees on itself when someone yells at him. For the last 7 years, he's been more of a threat to U.S. security than our adversaries have been.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    In what capacity? Were you all privy to all that was going on?

    I've got a nephew that's a Lt Col. in the 82nd AB, and whenever any of us ask him what's going on he says he doesn't know what's coming down from day to day. He says when he's given orders then he does as told.

    My dad was a fighter pilot and an officer in the 8th Air Force in WWII. He didn't know from day to day where he was going or for what reason until the briefing before the mission. I have all the respect in the world for those who served. I put myself out there for them and was rejected. So I don't apologize for not serving. I wish I would have. But I know that unless you have a very high security clearance and you have a specialization, then you probably didn't know much more than any Joe Sixpack about what was going on. I don't pretend to say I knew anything more than what was in the media back in the day. But a lot of things have come to light since the wall came down.

    Do you think this president is doing a good job? Do you think the enemy or potential enemy has any respect for him? I don't. I'm no admiral or general with a big security clearance, but I can read history.
    Your Nephew was ordered not to disclose classified information.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Anyone who is getting seriously worked up about this obviously missed the Cold War....Get back with me when they start rubbin and bumpin on the high seas....
    I enlisted in 1977. I have my Cold War certificate somewhere...
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    I was in college with a nuke off a destroyer. The trawlers followed them all over. He told me one time they painted a sheet of plywood with a pejorative about a russian mother in russian on it and tossed it over the side. The "fishermen" picked up anything that fell off the boat, so they watched them through binoculars when the plywood got to them.
    Speaking of trawlers. I was an intelligence gatherer. The closest I got to the Russians was locating (with airborne radar and visually) their trawlers straying into US waters mostly off the Oregon coast. I doubt if they were spying(there are no active military bases in Oregon) although some may have been equipped for it. I would report coordinates and direction of travel to the Coast Guard who had scheduled position reports from legal US fishing boats. If it was unidentified they may have sent a cutter to "escort" them to international waters. It was really no big deal but if a nation draws a borderline it needs to enforce illegal entry (which now seems to be encouraged). This was 1979-1989. We also performed border surveillance. North, flying out of Fairchild Air Force Base Spokane, WA and South, flying out of Miramar Naval Air Station San Diego, CA. It's rather strange that post 9/11/2001 this type of surveillance (the OV-1 Mohawks were retired in the early 1990s but we have had RC-12s and now drones that can do the job) has been discontinued.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Cause for an impromptu tracking exercise? Sure....But it appears that there are a lot of folks suggesting opening fire on unarmed aircraft for buzzing a U.S. ship....Sure glad none of them had their fingers on the trigger during the Cold War when far more provocative stuff occured.....and lest you forget....we engage in the exact same thing....
    They buzz us. We buzz them. Snore........
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