Big change from the way I used to shoot and hunt at distance

Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior MemberPosts: 6,978 Senior Member
For quite a few years all of my shooting, hunting and competing was accomplished through the use of Burris LER scopes (2-7, 3-9, and 3-12's).
I was shooting a friend's rifle just over 700 yards last week (One of Mac's Gunwork's 6.5-06), and Dan's rifle has a Burris XTR-II 5-25 (34mm tube) with the SCR MOA reticle in the First Focal Plane.
I'm holding a Burris 2-7 LER with a target turret added for elevation and it has a Ballistic Plex reticle in the Second Focal Plane.
Kind of amazing what you can use at distance and still consistently hit your target.
This 2-7 LER is going on my 44 Magnum Franken-Ruger.

BBAA1544-A4F9-4FD8-947C-C4C8CE90F7D8_zpsj3k9vw34.jpg
Ernie

"The Un-Tactical"

Replies

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,978 Senior Member
    Complete picture of the rifle.
    It is a shooter!
    0CAF980A-A7B4-44BC-95E8-BCF02D204DAB_zpstru6ohz1.jpg
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,158 Senior Member
    Just received a call from NASA. They want their telescope back?

    Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,492 Senior Member
    That's the same scope on my XP-100 7x57AI, its just a personal thing but for a long time Burris has been my choice of scopes.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,978 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    That's the same scope on my XP-100 7x57AI, its just a personal thing but for a long time Burris has been my choice of scopes.

    JAY
    Cool cartridge choice!
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,552 Senior Member
    41magnut wrote: »
    Just received a call from NASA. They want their telescope back?

    Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk

    Are you kidding me? If NASA wanted their telescope back, all they have to do is drive about 20 miles and stop by our range and find a whole retinue of big riflescopes like that or bigger. Why go all the way to Wyoming?

    We have some March scopes that go all the way to 80X; (mine stops at 50X,) with 34MM tubes.

    Ernie, how is that scope? Burris is not very popular in F-class circles; the magnification is too small. Also, we don't do FFP. But that looks like a great all-around scope. Tell me more.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,978 Senior Member
    I am very pleased with the Burris XTR-II line of scopes.
    At the upper end, the make the 8-40. This is a nice scope with a good reticle, but the reticle is in FFP.
    For the price point, the XTR-II's are probably one of the best buys for your dollar in terms of what you get.
    I have one of the 5-25's and two of the 8-40's.
    Most of the XTR-II's are for LR hunting, steel shooting, PRS/tactical matches, and varminting.
    They are so popular Burris is having a hard time keeping them in stock-That is a good problem if you are a scope company.

    For F-Class I am awaiting my Golden Eagle for the TR rig, and I have the Kahles 10x50 for my F-Open rig.
    Haven't used the Kahles 10x50 yet, but I sure like what I see do far.

    Pegasus wrote: »
    Are you kidding me? If NASA wanted their telescope back, all they have to do is drive about 20 miles and stop by our range and find a whole retinue of big riflescopes like that or bigger. Why go all the way to Wyoming?

    We have some March scopes that go all the way to 80X; (mine stops at 50X,) with 34MM tubes.

    Ernie, how is that scope? Burris is not very popular in F-class circles; the magnification is too small. Also, we don't do FFP. But that looks like a great all-around scope. Tell me more.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    I saw them March scopes on here and was gonna ask how they are. Never heard of them in my limited circles, but look to be top end quality.........and expensive.

    https://www.bullets.com/shop/brand_march-optics
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,552 Senior Member
    Big Cheese, good questions. Let me see if I can answer them.

    I got a March-X 5-50X56 for Christmas 2014 from Mrs. Pegasus and the fillies. On my F-TR rifle, I had been using a Nightforce NXS 12-42X56 for several years and as age continues to manifest itself (60 is in my rear-view mirror,) I found it increasingly difficult to shoot early in the morning during the winter months; I needed more light to my aging eyes.

    I don’t know how well versed you are in optics, so please excuse me if I explain things that you already know. In optics, size matters; a certain amount of light comes into the scope and the trick is to put out as much of that light as possible at the other end, the eyepiece at which your eye looks; how much gets there and the quality of the transmitted image are very much influenced by the size of the riflescope.

    The single best way to increase the amount of light to the reticle is to have bigger lenses. The bigger the lens, the more light that gets through. Simple as that. The objective lens is the main lens that regulates the amount of light, but internal lenses are important also. The bigger they are the more light they transmit and the less critical the shape of the lens is. In order to have bigger internal lenses, you need a larger diameter scope body. We are all used to 1 inch (25.6mm) tubes, but before you think that 30mm tubes have bigger internal lenses that 1 inch tubes, think again; the vast majority of 30mm tubes only provide for a larger internal tube travel (total adjustment range.) The 4.4mm difference is really 2.2 mm on top and 2.2mm on the bottom. That extra 2.2mm is used to allow the internal lenses of a 1 inch scope to move an extra 25-30 apparent MOA in a 30mm tube. This is why there is no more light going through a 30mm tube as compared to a 1 inch scope. In most cases.

    In a 34mm tube, the manufacturer as the option of using larger internal lenses or provide even more adjustment range. In the case of March scopes the manufacturer apparently opted for bigger internal lenses because the adjustment range is definitely no larger than what’s available in 30mm tube scopes and in fact it’s somewhat less. Having larger internal lenses does transmit more light and that is definitely apparent in the March scope, because I have been able to use it without issues at maximum power on dreary, heavily overcast winter months when my beloved NXS was just not cutting it.

    The other feature of the March-X is its use of ED glass. Please not this is not the only scope that uses ED glass, but that is still a rare (and expensive) feature in riflescopes. ED (or UD) glass is extra-low dispersion glass and it is used to minimize something known as chromatic aberration, also known as color fringing. Light going through glass will be refracted, or divided by wave length (think of the rainbow of colors coming from a prism,) and the individual colors will be focused slightly different distances after going through the glass. ED glass will reduce or near eliminate this focusing issue by making each color focus closer to the central point. (Fluorite glass is also used to do this but that kind of glass, while predating the introduction of ED glass, is even more expensive because it is difficult to produce and grind. And fluorite glass is more fragile and softer than ordinary or ED glass.)

    A camera lens with ED (UD) or flurorite glass will have only one or two element that are ED or Fluorite, and it’s not the objective or ocular lens; it will be an internal element. If your riflescope has ED or UD glass, it will be so noted in the sales literature, because that is a big differentiator. In my case, I am able to better discern the rings on the target face, they appear more crisp and defined. This is why people think ED glass give better resolution, but in reality it just reduces or eliminates color fringing, which I guess is a better resolution in a way.

    The March-X is lighter than my NXS by almost half a pound, IIRC, and that’s important because of the weight limits on F-TR rifles. These saved ounces can be put into a thicker/longer barrel, which is what I did.

    Now the cost, my March-X 5-50X56 was $3,200 and it came with a shade and leather lens covers. While I really liked (and still do like) my NXS 12-42X56, the March-X is simply that much better. Is it at least 50% better to justify the price differential? I think so for F-TR. I would still prefer a Nightforce on my non-match rifles; the NF scopes are tough.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    Burris has not impressed me with any of the optics I've played with. Yellow tint and critical or short eye relief have been prevalent on the hunting scopes I've used. Have not tried the XTR scopes, though.

    Slow customer service was my experience as well. I had to call twice to remind them they had my scope.

    Suffice it to say.............they are behind the power curve with me.

    Not that they care. But, they seem behind the power curve in the comp, tactical, and hunting world as well. Sort of a 5th wheel. Functional at all but owning none of the arenas.

    Oh yeah, they have a range finding scope that I wasn't impressed with either.

    Sorry.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,047 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    That's the same scope on my XP-100 7x57AI, its just a personal thing but for a long time Burris has been my choice of scopes.

    JAY

    You have that big scope on your pistol? Which has a longer barrel? Scope/pistol?
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,492 Senior Member
    You have that big scope on your pistol? Which has a longer barrel? Scope/pistol?

    The pistol barrel is 18 1/2", Its not that long, its the scope Ernie is holding, not the one on the rifle.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,978 Senior Member
    Zee, Zee, Zee...:hug:
    No apology needed!
    "They seem behind the power curve in the comp, tactical, and hunting world as well."
    Not anymore.
    The XTR-II line is a completely different cat.
    Their customer service was sub-par for awhile.
    Changes have been made.

    Burris Optics in some ways is changed company.
    I have had my fair share of complaints (That I have shared with them) over the years with their riflescopes. And some with their LER line.

    The E-3 is a mid-range to the beginning of LR hunting scope. For what it is, it is the best of it's type for a hunter.
    They have changed some things and made it better, especially in the area of activating the laser.

    I can't really say what I think about their Veracity line yet, since, I have only used one for a limited time.
    But it worked fine for the short time I used it.
    Zee wrote: »
    Burris has not impressed me with any of the optics I've played with. Yellow tint and critical or short eye relief have been prevalent on the hunting scopes I've used. Have not tried the XTR scopes, though.

    Slow customer service was my experience as well. I had to call twice to remind them they had my scope.

    Suffice it to say.............they are behind the power curve with me.

    Not that they care. But, they seem behind the power curve in the comp, tactical, and hunting world as well. Sort of a 5th wheel. Functional at all but owning none of the arenas.

    Oh yeah, they have a range finding scope that I wasn't impressed with either.

    Sorry.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 6,978 Senior Member
    The scope I have in my hand is the handgun scope (2-7 LER).

    I used Burris LER/handgun scopes 90% of the time on my handguns until I switched to riflescopes.

    I do have a 5-25 XTR-II on one of my big specialty pistols - 300 RUM/230 grain Berger Hybrids.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    I'm willing to allow that a company can change its ways and its product for the better. I await the improvement and hope they bring another useful tool to the tool shed.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    Thanks for the detailed scope description Peggy.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,552 Senior Member
    You're very welcome, Big Sneeze. :roll2:
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    Pegasus wrote: »
    You're very welcome, Big Sneeze. :roll2:

    Been sneezing all day from pollen allergies here, I feel like a big sneezer today.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,552 Senior Member
    I saw that, using my NASA-quality riflescope. :grin: Get well soon.
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