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7mm

tubabucknuttubabucknut BannedPosts: 3,520 Senior Member
I find myself interested in something 7mm. Maybe it is a squirrel thing, but I desire a 7mm-08, and or a 7mm remington magnum. What are your thoughts on these two cartridges. I already own rifles in .243 win, .308 win, and .300 win mag. Other the obvious, what advantage would I get from the 7mms.


Thanks
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Replies

  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,949 Senior Member
    Don't overlook the 7x57(7 Mauser).

    Its not a 270.
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 25,834 Senior Member
    I love the heavy for caliber 7mm bullets. You get a BC and SD to die for in a cartridge with relatively little recoil for what it can do.

    Because of my tendency towards the heavier bullets...........I am NOT a fan of the 7mm-08 Remington. If I wanted to launch a 140gr bullet, I'd use a 6.5 caliber. The 7-08 just doesn't have the room for the long slender bullets without a really long throat to seat the bullets out past the shoulder.

    Your gun. Your rules. There are several here enamored by the short 7mm and yeah, it works. No question. But come on! It's a sexy 7mm bullet!!! Use an equally sexy case to launch it from with long lines equal to the bullet!!!

    For that reason, I suggest the .280 Remington or even better, the 7mm Remington Magnum.

    The 7 Mag is where the joy starts for me. Low recoil. High BC. Smoking velocity if you handload. It's popular and relatively inexpensive components compared to other Gucci 7s make it an easy lift.

    I have/had 4 guns chambered for 7mm cartridges.

    7mm-08 Rem
    .280 Rem
    7mm Rem Mag
    7mm RUM

    Of all of them, the 7mm Rem Mag is my favorite. Hands down. The .280 Remington is my second. All of them shoot the 162gr Hornady A-Max exceptionally well. And they kill stuff.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Meh. 7-08 is a ballistic twin with easily available brass.

    "But but but its classic!"

    Meh.

    No. 7X57 in a modern action with a long throat is what the 7mm-08 aspires to be.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,949 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    No. 7X57 in a modern action with a long throat is what the 7mm-08 aspires to be.
    This
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Thanks for the input guys.

    Elk Creek I had not considered the 7x57 mauser. I checked, and it does not appear to be available in the two platforms I am considering.

    One of the reasons I chose the two chamberings I did, was I can reform brass I already keep on hand.

    Zee thanks for the input. I did have some reservations on the 08. I did some reloading research, and I was not impressed by some of the published data. My thought for the 08 would be a youth/wife rifle. It would be a step up from the .243, and won't beat you up as much as a 308. Of course I would love to shoot it as well. I myself am pretty excited about some of the data on the 7mm rem mag. That is the one I am most interested in. Some screaming performance without as much recoil as the 300 win, or 338 win.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,351 Senior Member
    I love the 7mm Mauser, but it's hard to find rifles in that caliber here in the US, I mean current production rifles. I was looking for a CZ 7x 57 all over the place about 10 years ago and couldn't find one. I got a 6.5 x 55 and was well pleased with it.

    The 7mm Mauser is a fine caliber and worth the trouble to find ammo. I assume (don't know) you could make brass out of 8mm Mauser brass, but you can find it. The 7mm Mag is too much gun for me.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 8,257 Senior Member
    Non-magnum 7mms are my favorite deer rifles. 7mm08 and .284 at the top of the list, if you want a short action. 7x57 requires a longer action.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,249 Senior Member
    Zee thanks for the input. I did have some reservations on the 08. I did some reloading research, and I was not impressed by some of the published data. My thought for the 08 would be a youth/wife rifle.

    Go wash your mouth out..........:bang: :tooth:

    Don't confuse the 270 with the 7mm08, snake will have a fit!
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,812 Senior Member
    7mm-08 is a nice whitetail/feral hog round for the area where I live. It's also very pleasant to shoot, so you enjoy the range time more than a higher recoiling round. I shot .308 and .30-06 for years, and they are great, but the 7mm-08 seems to be the sweet spot for my kind of shooting (under 300 yards).

    ADDED LATER: Something to consider about the 7mm Magnum is versatility. You could always 'load down' to 7mm-08 velocities for shorter range/less recoil, if you wanted. The only 7mm Mag I've fired was an old Stevens that was a real stomper. I didn't buy it, because it hurt to shoot it, but I know now that was probably due more to rifle design than the cartridge.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,887 Senior Member
    IMO the 7mm08 and 7 RM don't offer any significant advantages over your .308 and .300 WM.

    With that in mind, perhaps the 7x57 is a good choice.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,226 Senior Member
    I've heard/read of the 7/08 to be a 7X57 short action equivalent .
    To be honest I am doubtful of the "real world" benefits of the the short v. long action discussion.
    I have a fondness for the 7/08 from seeing the performance of SS3's rifle/cartridge in the field. My fondness for the trigger puller may skew my judgement? I'm guilty as charged in that regard. At time I've had the same desires for a 7mm as you and after due consideration I found the 280 Remington to be as good as any of the others.
    Except for dangerous game you got the planet covered, so you have no perceived gaps to fill so this is "for amazement & amusement", yes?
    I've read a fair amount of the 7RM of late since this Remington's 200TH Anniversary and I'm sure it compares favorably with the 300WM until you get into the heavier for caliber projectiles.
    Back to your original question advantages of a 7MM v. what you have? I would consider any advantages to be personal and mental.
    Goodness Gracious aren't we so lucky to have the choices we have. 😀😸


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • Bill M.Bill M. Member Posts: 65 Member
    For me, any 7mm would be a good choice. Would love to have a 7mm08 in a short action. I do have a .280 in a Win 70 featherweight and it is a very nice gun overall. I do load 140 gr bullets mostly. The little bit of extra bolt travel certainly does not seem like a problem when I use the gun. Is there one of the new, short, fat cartridges in 7mm if you are looking for something different and powerful?
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Elk creek wrote: »
    Don't overlook the 7x57(7 Mauser).

    Its not a 270.

    He said advantages! Not disadvantages...:tooth:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    I have a 7mm mag and a .284. I love them both, but the 7 mag is my do it all, fall back rifle for any situation I need. It allows me to play with other chamberings and know that I have something I can fall back on just in case.

    For my 7 mag, I handload 175 grain Speer Grand Slams. I don't get MVs as high as possible, but it's never let me down. It's a good choice and hard to beat, especially if you want to hunt something larger than deer.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Actually, it is, it's the same damn thing. If you can show me a BIG difference in .007 inches, I'll have my September retirement check in the mail to you. There is that old argument about available bullets, but that's almost a moot point for a couple of reasons. First, they are coming out now with more bullets for the .270 and tighter twist barrels are becoming available for about all calibers now. AN7D, the 4 most popular bullets available for the .270 are really good enough for all Hunting needs. I know you"re pulling my chain, but I do like to point these important matters out to you guys, just to keep your arguments honest,
    :tooth:

    OK now that that couple of minor points is out of the way, I prefer the 7-08 to the 7mm Mauser unless you're building on a medium length action, that is IF you're into reloading and want to optimize your loads. If you just shoot factory then either one is great.

    If you're into shooting heavier bullets and want a rifle you can hunt larger game with, look at a .280 Remington. It's really nothing but a 7mm-06. It's a very versatile cartridge. You can load it down just a bit to equal 7-08 velocities or you can pull the stops and have an elk rifle. It gives up little to a 7mm Remington Mag., it's easy to load for, and you can still find ammo in some stores, like Academy. I have one and it does everything my .270 does and about as good.

    Only problem, if indeed it is a problem, is you need a long or 06 length action. If you don't mind that, it's a more versatile offering than the two little brothers, 7-08 and 7x57. But to be truthful, any of the medium and large 7s is more than capable of being extremely accurate and killing all the deer, hogs, and goats on this or any other planet.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Actually, it is, it's the same damn thing. If you can show me a BIG difference in .007 inches, I'll have my September retirement check in the mail to you. There is that old argument about available bullets, but that's almost a moot point for a couple of reasons. First, they are coming out now with more bullets for the .270 and tighter twist barrels are becoming available for about all calibers now. AND, the 4 most popular bullets available for the .270 are really good enough for all Hunting needs. I'd venture to say, most on here that have a 7mm anything shoot mostly 120-150 grain bullets which you can have in a .270 off the shelf. I know you"re pulling my chain, but I do like to point these important matters out to you guys, just to keep your arguments honest,
    :tooth:

    OK now that that couple of minor points is out of the way, I prefer the 7-08 to the 7mm Mauser unless you're building on a medium length action, that is IF you're into reloading and want to optimize your loads, because in some factory short action rifles, such as a Remington 700 you may not have enough room in the magazine for loads where the bullet is seated out close to the lands. If you just shoot factory then either one is great.

    If you're into shooting heavier bullets and want a rifle you can hunt larger game with, look at a .280 Remington. It's really nothing but a 7mm-06. It's a very versatile cartridge. You can load it down just a bit to equal 7-08 velocities or you can pull the stops and have a "TRUE" elk rifle. It gives up little to a 7mm Remington Mag., it's easy to load for, and you can still find ammo in some stores, like Academy. I have one and it does everything my .270 does and about as good.

    Only problem, if indeed it is a problem, is you need a long or 06 length action for a .280 Remington. If you don't mind that, it's a more versatile offering than the two little brothers, 7-08 and 7x57.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,887 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Las wind drift and drop with the 7s.


    Enough to make a difference? Serious question. (AKA I'm too lazy to look up the ballistics tables)
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Big Al1 wrote: »
    Non-magnum 7mms are my favorite deer rifles. 7mm08 and .284 at the top of the list, if you want a short action. 7x57 requires a longer action.
    ,
    Yeah, like a Yugo Mauser. It's perfect for anything on a 57mm case such as :

    8x57
    7x57
    .257 Roberts
    6mm Remington

    And probably 4 or 5 more wildcats based on that case with different bullet diameters. There was another Mauser round based on it, the 6.5x57, and after WWII there were many **** Rifles that due to a shortage of Japanese 6.5 ammo, had the chambers reamed out for the .257 Roberts case, which is about the same thing as the 6.5 x57 Mauser.

    But the possibilities are, like with a lot of cases, limited only by the different diameters of bullets available that will fit the case. The ones that come to mind for me are:
    .270x57, .308x57, .338x57, .358x57, or maybe .375x57. Hell, like I said, the possibilities are only limited by the availability of different diameter bullets and the imagination.

    OK, back on subject. But this is all very interesting.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    308%20vs%207mm08.JPG

    http://www.6mmbr.com/7mm284.html

    Wind drift from above reference:
    windchartx580.png
    Overkill is underrated.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Best I remember. (Too lazy to look up tables).
    Of course, demons live past 300 yards. 300 and under? Meh. Just about all rounds are close enough together to make arguing a moot point. It's for the 300+ yard shots. IIRC, (again too lazy) the 7-08 beat the 30-06 in drop and energy numbers at 500 with 139 grain 7mm VS 150 grain .30 caliber bullets.
    Which means squat to ME and my under 50 yard shots, but there it is.

    Yeah, but your comparison is like comparing apples to Grape Fruit. The 7-08 beats an 06 when when it's shooting its heavyish for caliber 139-140 grain bullet as opposed to the .30-06 with a lighter (and shorter and lower BC) for caliber bullet, but compare it with a .30-06 with a 180 grain Spitzer. That's more of a fair comparison.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The SAAMI-standard chamber for a 7X57 will be throated for L-O-N-G round nosed bullets, which is what the pre-20th. Century military round used. You won't be able to get within shouting distance of the lands with a spire point bullet. Get an unchambered barrel blank for a 98 Mauser, and a custom chamber reamer designed with modern SP bullets in mind, and the 7X57 will probably outshoot a 7-08.
    Jerry
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    I just ran the comparison between the listed 7mm-08 with the .486 BC and that .30 cal. bullet going up to 2910 fps... ain't much difference. At 800 yds. you get 5" less drop and 7" less drift.


    2910 is the velocity of a 150 gr. bullet out of an '06.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    139 is not a heavy for caliber bullet in the 7-08. es
    162 would be more considered as heavy for caliber.

    Yeah well a 150 in an 06 is a good bit lighter for caliber than a 140 grain in a 7-08. 162-139=23
    220-150=70
    That's more than three times more difference. There's not that much difference in the .284 bullet diameter and the 30 caliber bullet diameter. So jack the bullet weight of the 06 up to at least 180 grains for a true comparison.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    I just ran the comparison between the listed 7mm-08 with the .486 BC and that .30 cal. bullet going up to 2910 fps... ain't much difference. At 800 yds. you get 5" less drop and 7" less drift.


    2910 is the velocity of a 150 gr. bullet out of an '06.

    That depends on the load. I get 3000 plus out of mine with 150 grain anythings. But I rarely shoot 150 grain bullets out of mine. I mostly shoot 180 and 200s out of mine. I like heavy for caliber bullets in my 06. Not so much with my .308. The biggest I load in the .308 is 165-170 grain. The .308 and the .30-06 are pretty equal with lighter bullets, but when loaded with 180 and up, the 06 pulls away. All else being equal, the more powder capacity the more horsepower.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    168 gr. is probably more similar. I dunno what this whole "light for caliber" comparison is based on. It's an area for weight difference, really. A .308 caliber bullet has a frontal area of .0745 square inches, and a 7mm has one of .0633 square inches, so stepping up from the 7mm to the .308 has an increase of 17.7% larger hole, area-wise. Assuming mass increases proportionally with volume, a 17.7% increase from 140 is... 24.78. Call it 165? I'll use 168. It has a better BC.

    If you want to go straight diameter comparisons, the .308 is 8.5% wider than a 7mm. 8.5% of 140 gives you an increase of 11 gr. So 151 gr. in the .308. If you just use diameter comparisons.

    .30 cal. shooting an AMax weighting 168 gr. (.475 BC) at 2800 fps has 22.8" drop at 800 yds. and 56.8" drift at 800 yds. with a 10 mph wind.
    7mm shooting a the listed bullet (140 gr., .486 BC) at 2820 fps has 22.1" drop at 800 yds. and 54.5" drift at 800 yds. with a 10 mph wind..

    And in case anybody whines about velocities being unequal, if you get that 168 gr. AMax to 2820 fps you get 22.4" drop at 800, and 56.2" drift at 800.

    Data analyzed using Hornady's Ballistics calculator.
    http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator
    Overkill is underrated.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    That depends on the load. I get 3000 plus out of mine with 150 grain anythings.
    I'm using factory ballistic data. It's probably more comparable. If you want to run the data using your handloads vs. 7mm-08 factory data, fine. It's not comparable, IMHO, but that's your business.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    The SAAMI-standard chamber for a 7X57 will be throated for L-O-N-G round nosed bullets, which is what the pre-20th. Century military round used. You won't be able to get within shouting distance of the lands with a spire point bullet. Get an unchambered barrel blank for a 98 Mauser, and a custom chamber reamer designed with modern SP bullets in mind, and the 7X57 will probably outshoot a 7-08.
    Jerry

    You damn right it will. You bore an engine out or stroke it, or both, increase the Cubic Inches, and you will have more horsepower. A 7-08 case has 52.23 grains water capacity. The 7x57 has 55.55 grains. All else being equal, more Cubic Inches(capacity) the more potential Horsepower.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,692 Senior Member
    I'm actually not taking sides on anything. Just relaying the data and the projections as the program says.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    We have no room for data here. Only opinions, lore, and " I had an uncle that...."

    That's not an opinion. That's a fact that there's more to the equation than frontal area. It has something to do with it of course, but so does powder capacity. So does bullet weight. They used to use 30 calibers for long range shooting, but found you could get acceptable range with a 7 mm with less recoil. Shooting a 220 grain bullet at targets isn't near as much fun as shooting a 150 grain. With a smaller diameter of course you can get by with less pain shooting distance. But the bigger the bullet with the right components and load is going to shoot farther. That's why 8 inch cruiser guns only shot about 12 miles distance max and a Battle ship with 16 inch guns would shoot 20-25 miles. There's more to the equation than bullet frontal area. But bigger is better, but it cost more and hurts more.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    :popcorn:

    Thanks for all the good info guys.
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