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Teach: Yet another stupid automotive question...

zorbazorba Senior MemberPosts: 24,183 Senior Member
My brain works overtime on useless trivia: Why did oil bath air cleaners go away?

Too restrictive? Didn't filter well?

I always liked them. Go figure huh? :tooth:
-Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

"If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    Because they will last for a hundred years.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Reason #1- - - -too expensive to build.

    Reason #2- - - - -worthless as a screen door in a submarine! I remember seeing race cars returning to Nashville from Daytona back when they were still running on the beach with 1/2" of SAND in the oil pan. That much got past the piston rings. Those engines were running the best oil bath air cleaners they could find. Obviously, that was before paper air cleaners got popular. When I was building dirt track engines, I used to stack two 15" diameter filter elements together with a couple of narrow strips of duct tape at the center joint. Good breathing- - - -no dirt. BTW, the aftermarket air cleaners like K&N- - - -they're also totally worthless!
    Jerry
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,981 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    BTW, the aftermarket air cleaners like K&N- - - -they're also totally worthless! Jerry

    AMEN to that :agree: totally , anyone who has ever had a K&N knows its a bigger pain to clean than an old oil bath type, not only that but (I cant prove it) they have to be more restrictive than a paper cleaner

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,559 Senior Member
    I dunno if they're "worthless" but I'll agree with Jaywapti that K&Ns are a total pain in the rear to clean than a paper one (never dealt with oil bath), but also that if you factor in how long you keep a car, service intervals, the price of a cleaning/recharge kit, and whatnot you have keep the car and filter for a while to make up the money you "lose" on paper filters.

    Yes, their cold air induction kits probably do breathe somewhat better, but I'd wager that's more due to rerouting the air flow than the filter.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    What Jerry said about oil bath air cleaners is on the money. The air velocity is too low for them to work, and if you DO manage to get the air velocity high enough for them to work, they suck the oil into the intake! The theory is that the particles in the incoming air will be redirected by the filter and be forced into the oil because they are heavier than the air. The problem with that is that air velocity is too low at idle, and at high rpm the engine vacuum is WAY too high for that to work and the particles are just vacuumed into the intake as the vacuum force is higher than the force trying to redirect the particles into the oil. It's a F=m x v thing.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,266 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I can prove otherwise. At least with new filters. Local auto parts has a demo set up. Fans suck air through the same size filters, and blow a ping ball ball up a pipe. The K&N allows the ball to rise to the top of the pipe. The Fram filter does not.
    They do allow more air into the engine. They also allow more dirt in. Even K&N once admitted they aren't for 100,000+ mile vehicled

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,183 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    They do allow more air into the engine. They also allow more dirt in.

    That's my understanding as well. And thanx Teach (et al), I figured oil bath cleaners had problems, but wasn't sure what. Too bad though...

    I still prefer cartridge type oil filters - and the dimmer switch should be on the floor where it belongs! Now get of my lawn!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    A lot of years ago, General Motors sent a new vehicle to the University of Oklahoma engineering school to be evaluated for possible improvements. The first recommendation was to "Put that dimmer switch back on the floor where the Lord intended it to be!" GM disagreed, citing all sorts of research indicating the turn signal stalk was a safer, more convenient choice. "Maybe so, but all our faculty and most of our students are getting their feet hung up in the steering wheel when dimming the lights!"
    :jester:
    Jerry
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,559 Senior Member
    Sounds like the University of Texas, where they just discovered a new use for sheep.























































    Wool.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,401 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    That's my understanding as well. And thanx Teach (et al), I figured oil bath cleaners had problems, but wasn't sure what. Too bad though...

    I still prefer cartridge type oil filters - and the dimmer switch should be on the floor where it belongs! Now get of my lawn!

    No! That's where the starter switch belongs!
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,559 Senior Member
    Meh. Proper way to start a car involves using a crank....

    Engage emergency brake by pulling back on it.
    Push lever left of steering wheel (Spark Control) all the way up (****)
    Pull lever right of the steering (Hand Throttle) half way down
    Turn Gas Valve under dash on passenger side to open (Pointing down)
    Turn Choke Control Valve (under right side of dash) full clockwise and back off 1/4 turn. If it's quite cold out, it may be better to open a full turn.
    Turn Ignition Switch on (Clockwise)
    Push in clutch and put Transmission in Neutral
    Pull Choke Control Out
    Turn engine over 3 Revolutions – Choke in on 3rd Revolution
    When Engine Starts – Push Throttle Lever (Right Lever) Up
    Put Left Lever all the way down. (Depending on how your engine is timed, 3/4 down might be better.)
    Allow Engine to Warm Up. (The accelerator pedal will need to be used to keep engine running until it warms up.)
    Turn Choke control (actually GAV) clockwise to smoothest operating condition.
    When starting an engine, which is already warmed up, omit Choke steps.
    Always put Left Lever (Spark **** Position) all the way up when starting & then down when driving.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    No! That's where the starter switch belongs!

    Head light dimmer switch on the left floorboard position, and starter switch is on right side to the right top of the accelerator pedal. Sayin'. :tooth:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,183 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    No! That's where the starter switch belongs!

    Yes, but that's under the accelerator pedal!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Never driven an old Chevy truck with a stomp starter, have ya? How about a 49 Buick straight 8, that started by simply turning on the ignition switch and stepping on the gas pedal? The starter switch was built into the carburetor.
    Jerry
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,183 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Never driven an old Chevy truck with a stomp starter, have ya?
    Jerry
    Nope, that was a bit before my time.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Pity the poor starter- - - -never heard of a manual choke!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV8YzrM9gAc

    Jerry
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I remember 3 in the tree, foot pumps for washer fluid, floor switches for bright lights and transmitions with a granny gear. And Ive seen manual chokes. All that other stuff is way before my time.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,438 Senior Member
    Once.you get used to the vehicle's quirks, a manual choke is fine. The school bus I drove in the early 80's had a manual choke, gas engine and 4 spd manual transmission. I miss it occasionally. But, I do like today's diesel and autos with cruise control when I'm driving a bus on trips.

    I do wish the dimmer switch was still on the floor.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    How about 3 pedals on the floor- - - -and none of them is a clutch, or a throttle?
    :jester:
    Jerry
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,183 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    How about 3 pedals on the floor- - - -and none of them is a clutch, or a throttle?
    :jester:
    Jerry

    I think you call that a bulldozer.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,183 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    ...transmissions with a granny gear...

    Yes!

    Most manuals made since the mid 70s just aren't geared low enough to be usable as far as I'm concerned - especially reverse. Now gimme a SM-420 **** and some 5.14 gears out back, and I can move mountains!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Nope- - - -a Model T Ford! The pedals, from left to right, are Low/High, Reverse, and Brake. Spark advance is a lever on the left side of the steering column, and the throttle is on the right. Pulling the handbrake up halfway puts the transmission in neutral for engine starting, and all the way back is neutral, plus it applies a set of TINY cast iron parking brake shoes on the rear wheels. The main brake is a band inside the transmission that puts a little drag on the driveshaft. No front brakes at all!
    Jerry
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,183 Senior Member
    I'd forgotten about the Model T, if I ever knew about it. Seem to recall reading something about that setup when I was a lad.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,720 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    I remember 3 in the tree, foot pumps for washer fluid, floor switches for bright lights and transmitions with a granny gear. And Ive seen manual chokes. All that other stuff is way before my time.

    I once got to drive a 4 on the column, an old Mercedes diesel.......robin
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    HAWKEN wrote: »
    I once got to drive a 4 on the column, an old Mercedes diesel.......robin

    I wonder if that rymes in German?:uhm:
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,183 Senior Member
    HAWKEN wrote: »
    I once got to drive a 4 on the column, an old Mercedes diesel.......robin

    An old 190 most likely. I'd *LOVE* to have one now!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    The cheerleader sisters who used to live about a mile down the road from me drove a Simca with 4 on the column Reverse was engaged by pushing the shift lever down past a spring loaded neutral gate and down toward the seat.

    std_simca_aronde_1959_f3q.jpg

    I learned to drive a Diesel on an old Mack B-73 with two shifters- - - -5X3- - - -15 forward gears and 3 reverse.
    Jerry
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,797 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    The cheerleader sisters who used to live about a mile down the road from me drove a Simca with 4 on the column Reverse was engaged by pushing the shift lever down past a spring loaded neutral gate and down toward the seat.

    std_simca_aronde_1959_f3q.jpg

    I learned to drive a Diesel on an old Mack B-73 with two shifters- - - -5X3- - - -15 forward gears and 3 reverse.
    Jerry

    Now there's a car I have never seen nor heard of.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Made in France, and imported by Mopar dealers back in the late 1950's/early 60's.
    Jerry
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,183 Senior Member
    There was a teacher at our local community college who drove a Simca - looked more modern than the one depicted here.

    I remember that video Jerry posted of the Mack twin stick - that looks like a ton of fun to drive!!!!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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