What do we do about illegal immigrants?

samzheresamzhere BannedPosts: 10,923 Senior Member
Last night in the debates, Newt said that there should be a pathway for some illegal immigrants to gain legal status. This has set off a Republican vs Republican debate, which is fine -- let's hear what the candidates have to say.

So I ask, what the heck do we do, really, about illegal immigrants? Here are some of my thoughts...

First, and this is essential, there can be NO legalization steps until the borders are closed tight. I don't care if it takes a huge physical wall, National Guard troops on the border, or whatever, but we first must put a halt to any further illegal entries.

After the borders are secured, and not before, I DO think we can establish a pathway for SOME illegals already here to gain "green card" status. Some reasons:

No, CRIMINAL illegals are not welcome, ever. Send them home after completing long prison sentences for whatever they did. At no time to I condone allowing criminal illegals to remain.

And sure, you say, the very act of coming here illegally makes them criminals, but that's semantics. I of course mean crimes committed after they're here.

And frankly, there's simply no way we can send 12 to 20 million illegals home. It's just not workable.

I think that AFTER the borders are closed, law-abiding illegals should be required to register. Not doing so will get them deported. But registering -- assuming they haven't committed a crime -- will guarantee they are NOT deported.

The idea is to get these people into the system of laws and rules. Example -- uninsured and unlicensed drivers are a huge problem here in Texas, as in all border states. Why? Duh, if you're illegal you can't get a driver's license or easily get insurance. Any act that puts your name on a list, anywhere, threatens your invisibility. So we citizens are forced to pay large premiums for uninsured motorist coverage. That's just one example.

Another is that illegals are easy targets for predators. Many work far below minimum wage and have no legal recourse if treated unfairly at jobs. Women illegals are often assaulted and raped, and they fear going to the police.

Regardless of the type of predation, illegals are outside the system and therefore learn to mistrust police. And this can lead the younger ones into a life of criminal behavior.

Also, illegals aren't paying their fair share of taxes. And those who employ them are also cheating on taxes, which increases the burden for others.

I see no reason, in a realistic way, that law abiding illegals cannot be required to register for future "green card" status, in a sort of preliminary green card system, where if there are no problems, they're fully legal in, oh, 2-3 years.

Sure, in a magically idealized situation, we can wave a magic wand and poof, illegals would disappear. But that's not the real world.

Okay, I've tossed out some ideas here. What are yours?

Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
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Replies

  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,179 Senior Member
    You have a pretty good synopsis of the problems.
    I'll say my short list, which would be similar to yours:
    1) Enforce existing immigration law.
    2) Close borders.
    3) Force American business to stop hiring illegals.
    4) Stop inviting them here by providing free stuff courtesy of taxpayers.
    5) End policy of automatic citizenship for children of illegals born here.
    6) Automatic deportation of illegals arrested for crimes. If they are caught again, 10 years in prison.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    Simply putting some teeth into immigration enforcement will help the situation immensely. Alabama passed a series of laws recently that mirror the federal immigration statutes, but simply give law enforcement officers the power to check for proper ID and ask someone who has gotten their attention for some other reason (traffic stop, etc.) about their immigration status. The feds are going ape, suing to prevent the law from going into effect and placing as many obstacles in the way of enforcement as possible. There is a mass exodus of illegals from Alabama, and the jobs they're abandoning are being filled, quickly, by legal citizens. Thousands of them! Now, where they're going, I don't know- - - -maybe they're coming here to Tennessee, but the concept is clear- - - -shut off the job magnet, and the problem solves itself! The Mexican consulate in Birmingham is screaming bloody murder because they're overwhelmed by the people trying to update their passports, and I'll bet they're not headed to Canada on vacation! The Alabama law also imposes heavy penalties on employers who refuse to verify the status of the people they hire, and landlords who rent to people without verifying their citizenship and/or immigration status.

    Once the rest of the country grows some balls and follows the example of Alabama and Arizona, the illegal problem will be a lot easier to solve!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    It's not just semantics when someone enters the country illegally. They have already chosen to break the law. They are criminals.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    Make my, some good items I'd overlooked...

    yes we need to stop the auto-citizen but unfortunately this has been interpreted as constitutional per post-Civil War amendments. So it's not just a law passed by congress that can easily be repealed. Only way to stop this would be a new amendment, never an easy thing.

    Preventing businesses from hiring illegals is of course needed. AFTER the borders are closed, illegals already here MUST register and obtain a "prelim" green card -- some sort of ID. And they cannot be hired without this and we really fine the heck out of people who do hire them.

    There are conditions on what I'd want to do, of course. Illegals already here who now start the legality process can NOT bring any family here until they successfully get their official green card, and then, only if the new immigrant is a true minor dependent (no aunts or grandmas) or has a job waiting. For poor old Auntie Josie, money can be sent to help them back home, as is now done a lot.

    Of course, one of the first things these new immigrants registering need to prove is prior citizenship and some sort of paper trail. And yeah, there would be fraud but it's better than what we have now.

    All you have to do is drive thru a heavily Hispanic immigrant area, and you see tons of signs up "Notary Public" (in Spanish). Thing is, in Mexico, a notary is a minor legal official who can help with things like permits and licenses. Here, no such thing but these "notarias" cheat immigrants who think they're getting real legal help.

    The whole thrust of my point is to get these people into the system, legally, and get them paying taxes. And also get them into the habit of trusting cops. Lord knows they can't trust cops back home.

    We're always told by liberals that ALL of these people are peaceful and only want work. Well, that's BS. Plenty of them are gang members or freelance thugs. But now, these criminals hide among the actual law abiding illegals, and the law abiding are afraid to do anything. So they are preyed upon by their own people with no real recourse here. What this does is embed into the younger kids a philosophy of criminal behavior and not trusting authority, because as illegals they have no recourse.

    But if these folks are required to register, and (if they are otherwise okay) by registering are NOT allowed to be deported but are instead given legal protected status, then the criminal element will more easily be frozen out and exposed. Believe me, it will happen fast. If Manuel registers, expects the axe to fall, and instead is given a prelim green card, legal ID, and a brochure listing phones to call for legal help with being underpaid or treated improperly at work, receives ZERO hassle from the cops except a solemn warning that he's on "probation", Manuel will quickly learn that the US isn't the enemy ahd he'll tell all his pals. As soon as it becomes clear this isn't a scam, these illegals will begin the process of full legal access to our system, all the better to become higher income taxpayers and who aren't afraid to call the cops about the drug dealer on the corner.

    I know that there are plenty of flaws in this "plan" but we've got to face reality. No way 12 million illegals will simply be deported. And we've GOT to find a workable way to get these people into the mainstream.

    Teach is right about teeth in the immigration laws. Right now we've got Fed laws that aren't being enforced, then when states try to enforce them, the Feds file suit to prevent their own laws from being enforced. This is nuts. And what it's doing is driving more and more Hispanics into the Democrat camp. Sure, Hispanics tend to vote Democrat anyway, but if we can find a good way to "mainstream" the law abiding illegals, lots more will lean to the right, eventually. This is a natural result of having a decent job, a decent house, and earning your own way.

    Police don't want to spend their time stopping all Hispanic drivers. It's a waste of their time when cops want to be focusing on the criminals.

    But imagine after this "prelim" green card law is in effect. Immigrants are no longer truly "illegal" but just on "probation". They've got their new ID card and if they can walk a straight line, see ya. News of fair treatment would get around fast in the immigrant community "No kidding, the cop checked my ID and told me okay. You need to sign up, Jose. My new job pays me a dollar above minimum, too."

    Parallel to this would of course be clamping down on people who hire non-ID illegals, and weeding out those who hadn't registered. If they don't have a new ID but are just scared, haul them down to the registration office and get them processed (of course ensuring there are no warrants, etc). Get them out the door and tell them "Now you're temporarily legal. That's your ID. Don't lose it or you may get deported. Come see us if you've got problems or questions, and get your pals in here to sign up."

    Having these folks gain preliminary entry to the system would make a huge difference, positive to the economy and positive to their own immigrant economy. It would also provide a big lever to pry out the criminal element and isolate them from the now-legal-for-temporary immigrant.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • deadeyedeadeye Member Posts: 73 Member
    Never saw me no law abiding illegal..............How can you be law abiding and be here illegal? Illegal is illegal.......period!!!! Clamp the borders tight and give all notice that they have a set date and time line to go back home or be thrown in prison at hard labor. Our ancestors came here and did it the legal way and didnt sneak in this country, so why now should be reward law breaking illegals?
    Cut off the jobs and the free hand outs and believe me, they will go back home........Simple as that. But the politicians deal from the bottom of the deck and say one thing but in reality, they want instant voters by making them legal. It costs this country billions of dollars each year from paying out free stuff to Illegals. This has to stop immediately or this country is a gonner if it isnt too late now. Said me piece, so now back to the scheduled program........lol
    No Need To Run, You Will Only Die Tired
  • deadeyedeadeye Member Posts: 73 Member
    deadeye wrote: »
    Never saw me no law abiding illegal..............How can you be law abiding and be here illegal? Illegal is illegal.......period!!!! Clamp the borders tight and give all notice that they have a set date and time line to go back home or be thrown in prison at hard labor. Our ancestors came here and did it the legal way and didnt sneak in this country, so why now should be reward law breaking illegals?
    Cut off the jobs and the free hand outs and believe me, they will go back home........Simple as that. But the politicians deal from the bottom of the deck and say one thing but in reality, they want instant voters by making them legal. It costs this country billions of dollars each year from paying out free stuff to Illegals. This has to stop immediately or this country is a gonner if it isnt too late now. Said me piece, so now back to the scheduled program........lol
    Sneak in the southern border of Mexico and see how warm a greeting you get!!!
    No Need To Run, You Will Only Die Tired
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,267 Senior Member
    The illegal immigrant issue is a political issue. If you don't get rid of the politicians that see these people as future voters you will never have a
    meaningful discussion on the issue, at least at the federal level. Fortunately, some States are taking action on there own due to the cost of free everything .When the States start to assert there rights, a lot of issues including all forms of free stuff can be resolved. I don't see anyone on the current political stage with the STONES
    to correct this issue totally. I don't think we will ever see any large scale deportations, a way must be found to get them to leave on there own.
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    Is that the actual number of illegal immigrants in the US, 12 to 20 million, less than 7% the population?

    Seems to me that there might be more important priorities out there?
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    bruchi wrote: »
    12 to 20 million, less than 7% the population? Seems to me that there might be more important priorities out there?

    The problem is the disproportionate amount of public funds they consume, from social services, law enforcement, medical care, and other drains on the economy, plus the almost total lack of input to the supply side of the economy through generating tax revenue. Basically, they're parasites. A few tapeworms are a tiny fraction of the host animal's body weight, but they can kill the host if they're not dealt with.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,773 Senior Member
    Republican or democrat we're not going to see any real movement on this issue anytime soon because the same wealthy business interests that own both parties benefit far too much from the large supply of cheap labor and indirecly from the downward pressure it puts on wages for everyone else.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    A wonderful lady that I know who moved to Hawaii from the Phillipines. She is a deli department manager at a local store. She earned her American citizenship and then proceeded to help her coworkers earn theirs as well. Everyone in her department is now an American citizen. I have immeasureable respect for her and her efforts.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Forget about long prison sentences for offenders, tag them so no matter where they go, their record follows them, rapists and child molesters etc... forward their record to Interpol and INS and FBI etc, and they can be dealt with.

    Then deport the offenders swiftly and permanently, jail sentences are way too costly.

    Every foreigner here in the U.S. now should have ID or be deported to their country of origin, let that country foot the bill for their deportation and bill that country for any expenses incurred.

    In order to live here each immigrant should have a full signature profile on file with NCIC, and this must match their ID so they can work pay taxes and live a normal life.
    Commit a crime, get deported permanently.

    Perhaps the solution is not closing the boarder but sealing the leaks to illegal aliens / traffic and narcotics.
    And deporting undesirables.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    deadeye wrote: »
    Never saw me no law abiding illegal..............How can you be law abiding and be here illegal? Illegal is illegal.......period!!!! Clamp the borders tight and give all notice that they have a set date and time line to go back home or be thrown in prison at hard labor.

    Well, dead, a good answer for a totalitarian society, North Korea or Iran maybe, but it's facile and unrealistic for the temperate way things are done in the USA. We just aren't that sort of country. BTW would you put the illegal children into hard labor workhouses too?

    What you're asking for is tantamount to waving a magic wand -- an unrealistic solution to a very real problem. There is NO WAY that all illegals will be immediately deported. It's simply not going to occur.

    I'm trying to look at the problem realistically. As a conservative and somewhat law abiding citizen, it rankles me to see so many illegals here. In Houston, as in most border cities, they drag down the working wage for low-end labor and raise the cost of driving, as most of them don't have licenses or insurance.

    But here they are. And unless we take draconian measures, here they will remain. So I'm juggling in my mind as to how best to deal with the situation in a humane and realistic way.

    My general idea is to 1) seal the borders first, 2) get the otherwise law abiding illegals into the system so they'll pay taxes instead of siphoning them off, 3) be very strict about law-breaker illegals, and 4) require some sort of "probation" so that legal immigrants aren't pushed aside in a way that rewards the illegals.

    I fully admit that there is no genuine perfect solution to this problem. I'm just trying to discuss realistic ways to fix the mess and do the least harm to our society. How I see it is that we cannot continue to keep several million people in a shadowed lifestyle.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Forget about long prison sentences for offenders, tag them so no matter where they go, their record follows them, rapists and child molesters etc... forward their record to Interpol and INS and FBI etc, and they can be dealt with.

    Then deport the offenders swiftly and permanently, jail sentences are way too costly.

    etc etc.

    Doc, those are some good ideas. If I can attempt to summarize what you're saying, we need to draw a very sharp line between criminal illegals and those who broke the law coming here but otherwise keep their noses clean. Get the criminals out of here asap, and then we can handle the others.

    Is that a fair assessment of your commentary? If so, I agree.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    bruchi wrote: »
    Is that the actual number of illegal immigrants in the US, 12 to 20 million, less than 7% the population?

    Seems to me that there might be more important priorities out there?

    bruchi, it's not the number of illegals, it's the disproportionate cost and trouble caused. Yes there are more important priorities, such as the overall economy and radical Islamic terrorism. I'm just dealing with the illegal immigrant problem here. We can start other threads on other problems, as needed.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "Is that a fair assessment of your commentary? If so, I agree."

    Yes, ID every alien here, those that refuse, deport them, immigration is not the problem, even the illegal type, as they do most of the jobs most folk will not do.
    We need to reduce the cost related to immigrants too, those that refuse to have drivers licenses / insurance and yet they drive intoxicated and have accidents etc......
    deal swiftly with them and deport them.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,773 Senior Member
    samzhere wrote: »
    Well, dead, a good answer for a totalitarian society, North Korea or Iran maybe, but it's facile and unrealistic for the temperate way things are done in the USA. We just aren't that sort of country. BTW would you put the illegal children into hard labor workhouses too?

    What you're asking for is tantamount to waving a magic wand -- an unrealistic solution to a very real problem. There is NO WAY that all illegals will be immediately deported. It's simply not going to occur.

    I'm trying to look at the problem realistically. As a conservative and somewhat law abiding citizen, it rankles me to see so many illegals here. In Houston, as in most border cities, they drag down the working wage for low-end labor and raise the cost of driving, as most of them don't have licenses or insurance.

    But here they are. And unless we take draconian measures, here they will remain. So I'm juggling in my mind as to how best to deal with the situation in a humane and realistic way.

    My general idea is to 1) seal the borders first, 2) get the otherwise law abiding illegals into the system so they'll pay taxes instead of siphoning them off, 3) be very strict about law-breaker illegals, and 4) require some sort of "probation" so that legal immigrants aren't pushed aside in a way that rewards the illegals.

    I fully admit that there is no genuine perfect solution to this problem. I'm just trying to discuss realistic ways to fix the mess and do the least harm to our society. How I see it is that we cannot continue to keep several million people in a shadowed lifestyle.

    Sam, I applaud your attempt to deal with a difficult and complex problem in a realistic way. I generally agree with your assessment of the problem and the solutions you propose. Deporting them all sounds great, but it's not realistic in practice. Far too often we demand simple solutions to problems that don't have them. This is one of those cases. Unfortunately I'm not overly optimistic that our political system is capable of rationally and realistically dealing with complex problems like this.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,909 Senior Member
    About the only thing we can do that's legal is vote for the right people and then if they get elected hold their feet to the fire. It may take a public referendum to swing the pendelum back the other way. But this is insane what the politicians are doing to us. They're letting this happen and it isn't just Dummycrats.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • deadeyedeadeye Member Posts: 73 Member
    Sam, if they were communist chinese or Russians coming across the borders in droves, wouldnt you say that we were being invaded? Please tell me the difference here. I stand by my solution, give them a chance to go back home. They got here on their own, they will go back home if all free gifts are cut off and a time line drawn.
    No Need To Run, You Will Only Die Tired
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    About the only thing we can do that's legal is vote for the right people and then if they get elected hold their feet to the fire. It may take a public referendum to swing the pendelum back the other way. But this is insane what the politicians are doing to us. They're letting this happen and it isn't just Dummycrats.

    I agree, snake. We've got to elect responsible legislators who will actually do something instead of just passing the buck.

    The illegal alien problem is a difficult one because our politicans, both sides of the aisle, have let it get that way. We can't just round up all the illegals and ship 'em out -- maybe the Germans have some old, er, "prisoner" transport boxcars we could use?

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    deadeye wrote: »
    Sam, if they were communist chinese or Russians coming across the borders in droves, wouldnt you say that we were being invaded? Please tell me the difference here. I stand by my solution, give them a chance to go back home. They got here on their own, they will go back home if all free gifts are cut off and a time line drawn.

    Are you talking about military troops or just ordinary Chinese or Russian citizens? You're stuck on semantics -- "invaded" means a deliberate, organized effort by one government to send actual military into the other country, not private citizens. Mmm, I suppose you'd think that the sultanate in the Holy Land was being "invaded" in the 1920s-30s by all those pesky Jews escaping from Russia, too?

    I do agree to cut off "free" gifts. The whole idea is to start an orderly assimilation of these illegals into the mainstream. They'd be free to go home anytime, too, if they didn't want to acquire ID cards, get car insurance and licenses. The sooner that these illegals are pushed into some sort of premiminary legal status, the sooner they start paying taxes and quit being burdens.

    Just for grins, dead, tell me the LAST time that a national government went through the act of rounding up undesirables and sending them packing? I'm guessing 1937-38, Germany. Look how well that worked out.

    The idea that we can simply force all these people to leave the country is fantasy, bar talk, like the Cubs winning a World Series. We can start a new thread "Wouldn't it be fun if..." and have fun chatting about imaginary and unrealistic behavior and you're welcome to start that thread. What I'm trying to talk about here are realistic and humane ways to deal with the problem. And I'm sorry, if you just look at the genuinely nonviolent illegals who actually did come here to find work and are not causing trouble, I cannot in good conscience stuff them in boxcars and send them off.

    This being a political forum section, we can also start a thread "The Iranians will be nice and will not kill others or make nuclear weapons if we would just be nice to them." too. Oh wait, that's a Ron Paul thread... ha ha

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • deadeyedeadeye Member Posts: 73 Member
    Just for grins, dead, tell me the LAST time that a national government went through the act of rounding up undesirables and sending them packing? I'm guessing 1937-38, Germany. Look how well that worked out.

    Sam, i recall back in 1941 the US Government rounded up Japanese American Citizens and put them in camps.

    I dont believe in rewarding someone for breaking the law. They are law breakers, not law abiders. If all states would enforce the immigration laws that are on the books and cut out job access, they would go back to Mexico on their own. If you dont believe that, look at how they run to another state when the one they are in cracks down on enforcing the laws that are on the books.Politicians would have us believe that making them legal would solve all our problems. When in reality, all thats doing is rewarding them for breaking the law and making more voters for them to stay in office.................Said me piece, now i'm done with this debate.
    No Need To Run, You Will Only Die Tired
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    Ronald Reagan tried an "amnesty" program that was supposed to include enhanced border security. He got half of it- - - - -instant citizenship for a bunch of illegals, but no change in the swiss-cheese border. "People who don't study history are doomed to repeat its mistakes"! Seal the border tight as a whale's bunghole FIRST before doing anything else, then start putting employers of illegals in jail! Tyson chicken is one of the worst offenders. If their CEO was looking at some hard time on the inside, I wonder how fast their employment policies would be changed?
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    You're right about the internment camps, dead. It was wrong, too.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • bruchibruchi Senior Member Posts: 2,582 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    The problem is the disproportionate amount of public funds they consume, from social services, law enforcement, medical care, and other drains on the economy, plus the almost total lack of input to the supply side of the economy through generating tax revenue. Basically, they're parasites. A few tapeworms are a tiny fraction of the host animal's body weight, but they can kill the host if they're not dealt with.
    Jerry

    There is no way around the fact that they are breaking the law and that is WRONG no matter how you look at it.
    There is no way around the fact that they are breaking the law and that is WRONG no matter how you look at it.
    There is no way around the fact that they are breaking the law and that is WRONG no matter how you look at it.
    There is no way around the fact that they are breaking the law and that is WRONG no matter how you look at it.
    There is no way around the fact that they are breaking the law and that is WRONG no matter how you look at it.
    There is no way around the fact that they are breaking the law and that is WRONG no matter how you look at it.


    7% is still a very LITTLE NUMBER, and some of this folks actually work for a living, some even pay taxes, perhaps there is a lot of drama and bias when it goes on how "HUGE" this problem is?
    If this post is non welcomed, I can always give you a recipe for making "tostones".
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    Sam, you've got more sence about this situation than the vast majority of the people. You are "pinging on target" 95+% IMO! You and I could correct it immediately!

    Alphasigmookie, Your high intelligence shows! Thank you for stating your views!

    One point that all should know.....there are illegal immigrants here working from most of the countries of the world. If the southern border with Mexico COULD be successfully closed-and it cannot and never will be-we would control less than half the illegal immigration problem. (Re-read what Alpha has said!)

    Every secret agent spying on our military-government-industrial complex since the end of WWII has entered the Country either by direct air flights into American airports or by illegal entry THROUGH THE CANADIAN BORDER! To date the one terrorists capable of committing an act of mass destruction since 9-11 entered through Canada, not the Mexican border.

    IMO while the illegal immigration problem is serious especially to local governmental economies in some cases, and should receive intelligent attention, it is far, far from the major problems that we, as a Nation, face on an economic and political level..... about like "dogpecker gnats" hovering around your face IMO!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,909 Senior Member
    Noel all these are good and need to be done. Also, I have one problem with giving some green card status. For one thing, I brought my wife here at great expense and lots of foot work and red tape. Why should we who did it right have to watch somebody that came here illegally get to do it easy and cheap? That's BS! Totally. I think you give them guest worker or just call it guest status. But don't make it permanent residence because that is a pathway to citizenship. And like I say, anyone who came here illegal should not be afforded Citizenship. At least not until they return home and have to reapply for a green card. The other way amounts to a form of amnesty. And if we let them have wholesail amensty it would be long before they will kill the two party system in this country. Most all illegals will vote Democrat and upset the political balance of this country.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    If our illustrious Government wanted to (both sides Dems/Reps) they could seal that border with Mexico tighter than Dick's Hat Band. First a fence (yes it works), let the BP/ICE/local-state LEOs do their job, National Guards from border states and the US military with all its technology.

    Every time a state passes a law to do what the Federal Govt won't, the Justice Department takes them to court. That doesn't make any sense at all.

    I get it, I mean why some folks think it is "Un-American" not to keep allowing the huddled masses into our country, but that time in our history is long gone. Just because they sneak in here ILLEGALLY they think we owe it to them to let them stay. They (illegals) are NOT American citizens and shouldn't the the rights under our constitution we do, period.

    It is the most confounded mess I have ever seen. They do a little bit (that looks good on TV) of what needs to be done to secure our borders and stop way short of the measures needed to finish the job.

    And no just because they made it in illegally, we shouldn't give them amnesty or let them stay because they had "Anchor Babies". Let them get in line like the rest of the world legally and apply. America lets more legal immigrants in than any other country in the world, as it is. We can't absorb or do we need Little Tommy Tucker, his twin brother and every other blank blanker like we could back at the turn of the 20th century.

    I think we as Americans blew it for not doing something akin to the Marshal Plan with Mexico back when it could be fixed a whole lot easier. Could have made it a place people were trying to sneak into, a good place to live.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,180 Senior Member
    Send the IRS after them for unpaid back taxes. That should motivate them to leave pretty quick.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,179 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Most all illegals will vote Democrat and upset the political balance of this country.
    That's why they fight so hard to let them in here. Democrats want votes....Republicans want cheap labor for business. It's a lose-lose situation for the rest of us.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
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