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Zee
Posts: 28,451 Senior Member
.40 S&W Terminal Performance - Graphic!
Zee
Posts: 28,451 Senior Member
Warning: The following thread contains pictures and a link to a video that are graphic in nature. VERY Graphic! A pig dies on video. Do not click on the link if you don't want to see him die. This is in the PD Forum because it is NOT hunting!!! I kill a pig with a defensive gun and defensive ammo for the express purpose of testing them as such.
Friend called me this morning and said he had a boar in his hog trap. Asked if I wanted it. Alive of dead, I asked. Alive was the response. Hell yeah I wanted it!!
Grabbed my stuff and headed over to perform a proper terminal performance test. I chose to use the ammo that I carry on a daily basis. It would give me assurance that what I trust my life with will actually work.
I set up the camera and placed a 3/4" thick piece of plywood behind the cage to attempt to stop a bullet in the event of a pass through. The pig was very aggressive in nature which was beneficial to the test in simulating and adrenaline pumped adversary with ill intent on his mind. He was ramming the cage, popping his jaws, and biting the wire. Perfect.
Gun & Ammo
Perdition - .40 S&W w/ 4.25" Barrel
180gr Federal HST @ 1,030 fps Muzzle Velocity
Test
Terminal Performance on live tissue at 7 yards.
Assessment of physical reactions and time to incapacitory milestones.
Autopsy to assess internal damage caused by bullet.
Video (Graphic! Do not open unless you want to see a pig die.)
http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/lovinmycaitlynn/Hunting/.40%20SampW%20with%20180gr%20HST%20%207yrds%20amp%201030%20fps%20mv%202_zpsaaeykjkx.mp4
Results
4 Seconds from Impact to Blood Pouring out of Mouth
8 Seconds to Blood Spray Exiting the Entry Wound
14 Seconds to Animal Falling to the Ground
57 Seconds to Complete Incapacitation / Death
I has a 4" square to thread the bullet through and hit the exact point on the boar as I was intending. Initially, he kept facing me. So, I had the rancher walk towards the cage and then to the left to encourage him to turn broadside. Once he did, I reached over, started the video, aimed, and fired.
Autopsy to follow.
Friend called me this morning and said he had a boar in his hog trap. Asked if I wanted it. Alive of dead, I asked. Alive was the response. Hell yeah I wanted it!!
Grabbed my stuff and headed over to perform a proper terminal performance test. I chose to use the ammo that I carry on a daily basis. It would give me assurance that what I trust my life with will actually work.
I set up the camera and placed a 3/4" thick piece of plywood behind the cage to attempt to stop a bullet in the event of a pass through. The pig was very aggressive in nature which was beneficial to the test in simulating and adrenaline pumped adversary with ill intent on his mind. He was ramming the cage, popping his jaws, and biting the wire. Perfect.
Gun & Ammo
Perdition - .40 S&W w/ 4.25" Barrel
180gr Federal HST @ 1,030 fps Muzzle Velocity
Test
Terminal Performance on live tissue at 7 yards.
Assessment of physical reactions and time to incapacitory milestones.
Autopsy to assess internal damage caused by bullet.
Video (Graphic! Do not open unless you want to see a pig die.)
http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/lovinmycaitlynn/Hunting/.40%20SampW%20with%20180gr%20HST%20%207yrds%20amp%201030%20fps%20mv%202_zpsaaeykjkx.mp4
Results
4 Seconds from Impact to Blood Pouring out of Mouth
8 Seconds to Blood Spray Exiting the Entry Wound
14 Seconds to Animal Falling to the Ground
57 Seconds to Complete Incapacitation / Death
I has a 4" square to thread the bullet through and hit the exact point on the boar as I was intending. Initially, he kept facing me. So, I had the rancher walk towards the cage and then to the left to encourage him to turn broadside. Once he did, I reached over, started the video, aimed, and fired.
Autopsy to follow.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Replies
Weight - 122 pounds
Entry Through the Shoulder - Nicked rib on entry
Internal Damage - The bullet passed through the front of the lungs and the juncture of the Lungs / Trachea / Heart
Exit - The bullet passed between two ribs tight behind the shoulder and lodged in the gristle plate on the off side. Penetrating a total of 14" of live tissue.
The bullet expanded and retained 100% of it's weight.
We quartered the carcass for consumption and dumped the remains in the ranch pit. Stopping to place some affection on his pet doe who has twin fawns at the moment.
After all............we are NOT savages!
Raised her from a fawn.
- George Orwell
Four types of stops... only one is reliable.
1. Electric. Turn of the CNS via brain or critical spinal hit. Hard to do. Only reliable immediate stop to a threat.
2. Hydraulic. It does take time to bleed out and even then you have about a 90 second oxygen reserve.
3. Mechanical. Bust a hip, pelvis, thigh bone, nerve to function, something that immobilizes. The threat may be stopped but is still dangerous.
4. Force of will, "I give up." Most dangerous of stops as the threat may decide they do not give up and re-engage.
Items two, three and four are why it is taught to, "Shoot until the threat has stopped." Only one and two result in death and "safety" , and even two is a danger until the threat has been deprived of oxygen.
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
Very interesting, esp. to a non-hunter like me. I was pretty amazed at how long he kept going considering where you hit him.
Thanks again for all the after work and documentation.
D
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
"The Un-Tactical"
I won't call it disturbing ... more like enlightening. It gives an insight into the thought that one shot stops from an average carry gun aren't as easy as some think. I might be assuming wrong but Zee took what amounts to a center mass shot not a shot to strike the central nervous system and limited to one to see the results. I am sure he could have hit the spine in a couple places or even a head shot. The way I read his analysis was on bullet performance and times related to the stages of incapacitation. Handguns in general are bottom of the rung on stops ... speed and hydrostatic damage from a long gun like his Ruger Scout creat the wound cavity that shortens those hits that are not on the central nervous system ... might take a full clipazine ... thinking about actual % of hits and actual good hits.
That boar had a will and only was going to stop by short circuit or blood loss ... much like a criminal bent on hurting you. I carry a 9mm and 45acp and this all be it brief display proves just 1 round ain't gonna be enough unless hit the spine, brain stem or cortex of the brain which is in an SD situation is freakin' hard to near impossible.
- George Orwell
Not at all. He didn't intend to do a one-shot stop to begin with
"The Un-Tactical"
You Sir, are SPOT on with my intent and your assessment. I only WANTED one shot! So all could see the reaction of a GOOD defensive round in the right place and.............that it is still not completely adequate to our desires of immediate incapacitation. We are completely in agreement.
This shows that, even with a central mass hit, a determined attacker (animal) has a fair amount of time to inflict damage to yourself or another.
Shoot until the threat goes away!!!!
A one shot drop from a handgun is not going to happen without a central nervous system hit. It's just the way it is. That's as good as you can ask for. Very enlightening. On a two legged target, you have the spine running vertically with the vitals instead or horizontally. One can hope that vital and CNS hits might happen simultaneously. Only way that happens on a hog is to take that shot while he's standing and facing toward the shooter. Multiple hits might have helped overwhelm the system a bit better. Or might not. But it confirms, handguns are not the best at stopping a threat. But they are way easier to carry and will do the job when the rounds hit the right places.
Remember that when you hear the "why couldn't they just shoot him in the leg" crap....
Defensive rounds in a concealable platform, exactly.
Well said, my French Model.
Considerably less bruising to the lungs which denotes less temporary cavity (hydrostatic expansion) as compared to a high velocity rifle round.
57 seconds to clinical death is pretty quick, we have shot pigs in the head at powder burn distance with a .22 rifle and had them hang on that long, even after shoving a knife in their throat.
Dad 5-31-13
That's why you don't aim for the lungs.
Maybe that was Zee's point all along...
"The Un-Tactical"
I'm not saying that one shouldn't aim for the lungs. Just not a low thoracic cavity POA. Remember that 6" box sets high in the chest for a purpose. It is located at the juncture of lungs/trachea/heart/spine to provide the quickest resolution to the situation in an attainable POA.
And then............keep shooting until the threat goes away. This is likely not a "one and done" situation unless you are considerably fortunate.
Possibly. The 155gr HST runs 1,172 fps put of my 4" G23c and 1,291 fps out of my 5" 1911 in .40cal.
:applause:
"Because 5 wasn't enough and 7 would have been too many."