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10 mm v.s. 45 ACP

Dellg3Dellg3 New MemberPosts: 4 New Member
I want to know the difference between these 2 calibers , good and bad .

Replies

  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,262 Senior Member
    The 10mm is basically a magnum round. So lot's of muzzle flash and blast. Recoil-wise the 10mm should kick more. Being hotter it will also cause more wear on the weapon as the weapon is being asked to contain more power. Adding to that, 10mm is harder to find on the shelves in the same quantity as 45acp. There are many more 45acp loads than 10mm.

    Nothing wrong with the 10mm. For self-defense, it's really hard to beat the 45acp. But don't take my word for it. Here is a youtube video of a guy shooting the same weapon, first in 45acp, then in the 10mm. Watch the first shots on the 45acp, then jump to 1:55. Picture that muzzle blast, at night. Can you say blinded? Their is a good reason the 45acp is still going strong with many followers after 107 years. It works.

    Now if you're hunting. Go for the 10mm.

    [video=youtube_share;exxPPbQc4FQ]
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    I don't disagree too much on anything Tugar said. But the video is a poor example because the shooter is using a 'cup and saucer' grip, and is not even controlling the relatively tame .45 very well, much less the 10mm. With a proper grip and some practice, the 10mm can be controlled quite easily, with standard power ammo, in a full-sized handgun.

    My experience is with the G20, and though it took several magazines to get used to recoil and the blocky feel of the Glock, I did fairly quickly start shooting it accurately at longer distances. I think it is a great chambering for a woods gun, and I also would not hesitate to use it for home defense, with the proper ammo.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,810 Senior Member
    I don't think the 10mm is any worse for recoil than a +P .45acp. That is a guess because I never shot 10mm and .45acp +P in the same handgun.

    I have shot .45 acp +P in a 625 and .40S&W and 10mm in a 610 which looks to me to be very close to 629. What I remember is the recoil is similar in intensity, with the 10mm recoil a little more than the .40.

    I have shot .40S&W in a full sized glock and 10mm in a glock 20. The .40 was more snappy and uncomfortable than the 10mm.

    The 10mm can have more ft-lbs of the two to much more.

    I think the 10mm is one of those rnds that a person should shoot in a borrowed or rented handgun before buying.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I have Colt 1911's in both calibers, I don't think recoil of the 10mm is much different than 45+p and f-lbs of energy is slightly better with 10mm but not enough to
    cause one to purchase 10mm over 45acp.You probably wont find 10mm ammo at wally world but all LGS have plenty of SD ammo in 10mm. Don't know why but my 10mm is my favorite SD Pistol. If I ever find myself in a very bad SD situation up close and personal ether Caliber is quite sufficient. Best bet is to find a way to shoot both at the range!!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    I agree with both Tugar and Bisley. I agree with Tugar because as he says, that old 45 ACP has been doing it for over 100 years now and still going strong. I agree with Bisley because if you don't use the weapon correctly you cannot do a fair comparison of the two. If it's me I'm comfortable with either. For some reason unknown to me, maybe something in my edumacational process, that I hate rifle recoil, but hand gun recoil for me is almost a non issue. But Blast, they can keep. I don't like a lot of firebreathing flame. The 45 acp as far as doing the job, at handgun and most confrontational ranges is excellent for the purpose. It stops attackers in their tracks without a lot of loud and slap. It's just an old smoothing that gets the job done without a lot of fanfair.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,713 Senior Member
    Dellg3 wrote: »
    I want to know the difference between these 2 calibers , good and bad .

    The 10 mm is faster than the speed of light more powerful than a speeding locomotive it can penetrate several walls with one pull of the trigger.
    The 45 not so much.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,385 Senior Member
    The 10mm is an excellent choice if you need one handgun to do double duty for defense and hunting. The example I always use would be for a cop in the mountain states or rural areas where both gunfights with crooks or altercations with bears are real possibilities. Being something of a magnum class cartridge, it's a little slower coming out of recoil than the same gun in .45, but it will have more range and penetration.

    Defense against the 2-legged is what the .45 was designed for, and it remains an excellent, and comfortable choice for the dedicated shooter with good gun handling technique. For the more casual shooter looking for a "things that go bump in the night" gun, modern 9mm hollowpoints offer performance nearly as good - possibly better because accuracy won't suffer as much due to flinch and anticipation issues.
    WWJMBD?

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  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    While were on the subject of 10mm, is anybody aware of an actual SD situation when the good guy was using 10mm, and what the outcome was?? Specifically
    against the 2 legged type. Are any LEO's using or used 10MMin the past ??
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,810 Senior Member
    104RFAST wrote: »
    While were on the subject of 10mm, is anybody aware of an actual SD situation when the good guy was using 10mm, and what the outcome was?? Specifically
    against the 2 legged type. Are any LEO's using or used 10MMin the past ??
    It was developed for the FBI, small agents could not handle the recoil.

    Hence the 10mm short.
  • Dellg3Dellg3 New Member Posts: 4 New Member
    Thanks for all responses . I knew this forum would be educational .
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,810 Senior Member
    Dellg3:
    Welcome aboard.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,223 Senior Member
    [QUOTE=Tugar;55388
    Nothing wrong with the 10mm. For self-defense, it's really hard to beat the 45acp. But don't take my word for it. Here is a youtube video of a guy shooting the same weapon, first in 45acp, then in the 10mm. Watch the first shots on the 45acp, then jump to 1:55. Picture that muzzle blast, at night. Can you say blinded?

    [video=youtube_share;exxPPbQc4FQ]

    Why did that guy post a YouTube video?? To show how much he isn't familiar with a 1911???
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    The 10mm is a versatile cartridge, much more so than the .45ACP. The 1911 platform can be made to handle the 10 mm, but in the 10mm hi power loads it has it's limitations. The 10mm can be loaded to shoot from 350 FPE to almost 800 FPE, so it requires a chamber strong enough tho handle the hi pressure, and a recoil system that can adjust to the differences.

    The Glock 20 is a purpose built 10mm handgun, with easily changeable recoil springs for higher energy rounds. So in 10mm you can tune it to reliably fire lower energy range practice ammo or high energy hunting ammo.

    The .45ACP is a self defense gun with a punch from a heavy slow bullet. It is accurate and reliable if built right and maintained. I do not own a 1911a1 or a variant. The closest I have is a S&W model 39.

    I can say the Glocks are reliable, and accurate enough to 50 ft for any need.

    IMHO

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
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  • joseph06joseph06 Member Posts: 133 Member
    I own both, but the 10mm is definitely something of an enthusiasts round--ammo can be tough to find, it's expensive to shoot if you don't relod, and has lots of different ammo choicees for different applications. The .45 is a lot more common, someone cheaper, and you can buy target/defense ammo about anywhere. The 10mm can work as a medium game gun, but it's not the best choice for a hunting handgun. The Glock 20, specifically, is a good hiking/camping gun, since it can stand up to the elements, function when dirty, and is pretty light weight.

    Both are fine for personal defense, and I'd say that with most ammo, the .45 is a little softer-recoiling, and probably has less blast when fired inside.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    The 10mm is a versatile cartridge, much more so than the .45ACP. The 1911 platform can be made to handle the 10 mm, but in the 10mm hi power loads it has it's limitations. The 10mm can be loaded to shoot from 350 FPE to almost 800 FPE, so it requires a chamber strong enough tho handle the hi pressure, and a recoil system that can adjust to the differences.

    The Glock 20 is a purpose built 10mm handgun, with easily changeable recoil springs for higher energy rounds. So in 10mm you can tune it to reliably fire lower energy range practice ammo or high energy hunting ammo.

    The .45ACP is a self defense gun with a punch from a heavy slow bullet. It is accurate and reliable if built right and maintained. I do not own a 1911a1 or a variant. The closest I have is a S&W model 39.

    I can say the Glocks are reliable, and accurate enough to 50 ft for any need.

    IMHO

    D


    Hmmmmm, fascinating.
    This requires disambiguation.

    The 1911 is at home with the 10mm cartridge that is well known, I do not agree that the 10mm round is more versatile, it has a well established place however.

    And the Glock like many other handguns can do a great job at greater ranges than 50 feet even for average type shooters.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,798 Senior Member
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    And the Glock like many other handguns can do a great job at greater ranges than 50 feet even for average type shooters.

    I am an average type shooter who occasionally wakes up with clear eyes and a steady hand and has a good shooting day. I have, on one my good days, regularly hit paper plates at 50 yards, with no hold over, with a stock G20 and factory practice type loads. I can't do that very well with my 1911 clone, even though I shoot it better than any of my other handguns, at normal pistol ranges.

    The MPBR on the 10mm is listed at something like 70-75 yards, so in the hands of a real shooter, it is quite versatile.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I have 1911's in both calibers, enjoy shooting both guns. Even with +P the .45 seems a little more manageable than the 10. However,if I was awakened by a BG in the
    house and both guns were on the night stand I think I would grab the 10mm. Don't really feel that strong about it, its just me. Its a good feeling to have that choice.
    I practice double taps with both guns,perhaps the 10 requires some additional practice to keep both shots on a paper plate but its fun so no harm no foul.
    If you can only have one gun, perhaps the .45 is a safe choice, but I recommend shooting both before purchasing ether one particulary if the wife will have access
    if you are not there.
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,262 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Why did that guy post a YouTube video?? To show how much he isn't familiar with a 1911???

    I realize that. How the person shoots it will have no bearing on the muzzle flash, which was what I was trying to show.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • shootershooter Senior Member Posts: 1,186 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    The 10mm is a versatile cartridge, much more so than the .45ACP. The 1911 platform can be made to handle the 10 mm, but in the 10mm hi power loads it has it's limitations. The 10mm can be loaded to shoot from 350 FPE to almost 800 FPE, so it requires a chamber strong enough tho handle the hi pressure, and a recoil system that can adjust to the differences.

    The Glock 20 is a purpose built 10mm handgun, with easily changeable recoil springs for higher energy rounds. So in 10mm you can tune it to reliably fire lower energy range practice ammo or high energy hunting ammo.

    The .45ACP is a self defense gun with a punch from a heavy slow bullet. It is accurate and reliable if built right and maintained. I do not own a 1911a1 or a variant. The closest I have is a S&W model 39.

    I can say the Glocks are reliable, and accurate enough to 50 ft for any need.

    IMHO

    D

    In the mid to late 90's I competed in IPSC with this highly customized Delta Elite in 10mm. When loading to major power factor its recoil felt exactly like the .45 Gold Cup I had been using; makes sense, it's physics. Why did I switch? Higher mag capacity. But loading the 10mm with 180 gr. JHP's at 1100-1200 fps and 155's to 1400 fps, puts the 10mm in 357 magnum territory. I just swap out the Wolff recoil spring to a 20# or 22# and I'm good to go. The BarSto barrel is amazingly accurate and handles the pressure a.o.k. The current Hornady manual shows three loads making 1250 fps with 180's out of a stock Colt Delta Elite.

    IMG_0160.jpg

    btw... I still have the Gold Cup, I'm not stupid!:wink:
    There's no such thing as having too much ammo, unless you're on fire or trying to swim!
  • cappy54cappy54 Member Posts: 269 Member
    :bang: :bang: :yesno: sorry but the guy doing the video is a DORK first his shooting grip and second "OH THE SAFETY" and as far as i am concerned the 45 and 10 mm are totally 2 different beast and applications as many have stated. My 2 cnts. OH and I own both.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    45 ACP is about as effective as the 40 cal or the 10mm. But it's milder and easier to handle. But that big 45 cal. bullet makes up for a lot of Blast and recoil. The 45 is just smooth.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • rapier5316rapier5316 Member Posts: 312 Member
    104RFAST wrote: »
    While were on the subject of 10mm, is anybody aware of an actual SD situation when the good guy was using 10mm, and what the outcome was?? Specifically
    against the 2 legged type. Are any LEO's using or used 10MMin the past ??

    Yes, in Renton, Washington. The Colt Delta Elites were just out.
    Cast: Gun store clerk who is also the Renton Fish and Game club (shooting range) IPSC safety course instructor that was carrying the 10mm.
    3 King County deputies, 2 with Colt Trooper .357 and one that had just transitioned to the Glock 9mm.
    Perp: walked past 2 marked Caprice patrol cars and an unmarked to rob the gun store, armed with a pot metal mouse gun.

    THe 4 rounds of 10mm (early Norma alledgedly hollow point) all pass through the perp, glass front door and lodge in the front of a patrol car .
    "The power of the United States has peaked, oppression follows." Robert Prector, Socionomics.net
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,521 Senior Member
    104RFAST wrote: »
    While were on the subject of 10mm, is anybody aware of an actual SD situation when the good guy was using 10mm, and what the outcome was?? Specifically
    against the 2 legged type. Are any LEO's using or used 10MMin the past ??

    Arizona vs. Harold Fish: Hiker carrying a 10mm Kimber is attacked by a man with a criminal history. Attacker gets shot and killed, hiker gets 10 yrs. for manslaughter, in part because he was using "too powerful" of a cartridge with "deadly hollowpoints." The "powerful chambering" and hollowpoint ammo issues could have been solved with a good expert witness.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15199221/#.TuHyCFaAPKQ
    http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/
    Overkill is underrated.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,810 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    45 ACP is about as effective as the 40 cal or the 10mm. But it's milder and easier to handle. But that big 45 cal. bullet makes up for a lot of Blast and recoil. The 45 is just smooth.
    That is your opinion, not mine. .45acp standard pressure is smooth not +P and I don't feel so great a difference between the smooth .45acp and the non smooth 10mm. And I have a choice to use 10mm short.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    Arizona vs. Harold Fish: Hiker carrying a 10mm Kimber is attacked by a man with a criminal history. Attacker gets shot and killed, hiker gets 10 yrs. for manslaughter, in part because he was using "too powerful" of a cartridge with "deadly hollowpoints." The "powerful chambering" and hollowpoint ammo issues could have been solved with a good expert witness.

    I wasn't there, but I still believe that man was right in what he did, and he should not have been convicted.
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,521 Senior Member
    If they'd have hired an expert witness, he could have told why both hollowpoint bullets and a 10mm were justified.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    I think a good argument could be made that Mr Fish was armed against four legged threats, It's not my Clients fault the threat only had 2 legs???
    If they'd have hired an expert witness, he could have told why both hollowpoint bullets and a 10mm were justified.
  • BullgatorBullgator Member Posts: 393 Member
    If they'd have hired an expert witness, he could have told why both hollowpoint bullets and a 10mm were justified.

    Exactly! Sounds like the defense attorney was an idiot. Hell, just ask the baliff in the court room if he were carrying HPs and why.
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