Home Main Category Hunting

Here is something interesting...................

orchidmanorchidman Senior MemberPosts: 8,364 Senior Member
I get a lot of requests from Muslim Indians to bring them some goat meat. Goat, in case you didnt know is the much preferred meat for the basis of curries. I have supplied goat to them in the past and although they are only supposed to eat 'Halal' meat, most of them dont even ask about it being such.

Did a quick google search on what happens if you hunt with a rifle and dont kill an animal according to Halal.............and came up with this...........

If you shoot the deer with the rifle and mention the name of Allaah, and hit the deer, and it dies from that shot, then it is halaal and it is permissible to eat it. If you catch up with it when it is still alive, it is essential that you slaughter it properly.

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: Are the birds that we shoot with rifles and they died halaal or not? We find that some birds that we shoot have died before we can say the name of Allaah over them.

He replied:

Yes, if you shoot a rifle when hunting birds or rabbits or deer, and you say the name of Allaah when pulling the trigger, then it will be halaal, even if you find it already dead, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever causes the blood to flow and the name of Allaah has been mentioned over it, then eat.” And he said: “If you release your (hunting) dog and mention the name of Allaah over it, then eat.” But if it is still alive and able to move then you must slaughter it properly and mention the name of Allaah over it when slaughtering it. If you do not do that and it dies, then it becomes haraam for you. But attention must be paid to mentioning the name of Allaah when pulling the trigger, because if you do not mention the name of Allaah then it is haraam to eat it, even if you forget, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever causes the blood to flow and the name of Allaah has been mentioned over it, then eat.” And he said: “Do not eat of that over which the name of Allaah has not been mentioned.” End quote from Fataawa Noor ‘ala al-Darb.

Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked: Is it sufficient for me to say Bismillaah wa Allaahu akbar when inserting bullets into the rifle when hunting, or must I mention the name of Allaah when pulling the trigger of the rifle?

He replied:

What you must do is mention the name of Allaah when shooting, and it is not sufficient to mention the name of Allaah when putting the bullets into the rifle, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When you shoot your arrow, then mention the name of Allaah” (saheeh – agreed upon, from the hadeeth of ‘Adiyy ibn Haatim (may Allaah be pleased with him); this version was narrated by Muslim). End quote from Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz (23/91).

And Allaah knows best.
Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....

Replies

  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 5,032 Senior Member
    So do you say Allaah before you pull the trigger ??

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Do you drizzle the meat with pork fat before you deliver it?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    So do you say Allaah before you pull the trigger ??

    JAY

    I hunt with a Muslim friend who was born in Syria, currently living in Nebraska, and he says a prayer prior to pulling the trigger. The Halaal practice is actually an act of mercy. The animal's spirit cannot be allowed to "slip away", that is die from suffering. So, if either of us shoot something and it shows the slightest sign of life, he slits the throat immediately to end the animal's suffering and make it Halaal. He can then eat it without religious concern. If it dies of it's own right when not killed immediately and completely at the shot, it's unfit to eat. Ironically, it's an extremely close requirement to Kosher meat preparation.

    This is my buddy making a Halaal goose kill as described..



    By the way, make no mistake: hog hunting is becoming prominent in the Muslim hunting community. They won't handle the pig, but they are allowed to shoot them as vermin, just like coyotes and such.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,981 Senior Member
    Makes no sense to me, but whatever works for them. Abrahamic Monotheism usually manages to baffle me.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,364 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I simply shoot W T F I want, the way I want, (providing its in season) then I eat it. I don't have to say **** before I pull the trigger.
    Guess I'm going to hell.

    So do I......................but if I am going to cull goats I dont like wasting the meat if someone else can use it........so, according to the above I can call it 'Halal' and give it to those who want it just by saying a word before I pull the trigger.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,364 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    So do you say Allaah before you pull the trigger ??

    JAY



    I will be from now on if I intend to give the meat away.................unless I miss, then I will say some other words
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    I hunt with a Muslim friend who was born in Syria, currently living in Nebraska, and he says a prayer prior to pulling the trigger. The Halaal practice is actually an act of mercy. The animal's spirit cannot be allowed to "slip away", that is die from suffering. So, if either of us shoot something and it shows the slightest sign of life, he slits the throat immediately to end the animal's suffering and make it Halaal. He can then eat it without religious concern. If it dies of it's own right when not killed immediately and completely at the shot, it's unfit to eat. Ironically, it's an extremely close requirement to Kosher meat preparation.

    This is my buddy making a Halaal goose kill as described..



    By the way, make no mistake: hog hunting is becoming prominent in the Muslim hunting community. They won't handle the pig, but they are allowed to shoot them as vermin, just like coyotes and such.

    So, if your Muslim friend is hunting alone and shoots an animal, and it runs for a spell, he finds it later...dead, but not at the shot. What does he do? Leave it lay, being "unfit to eat", or dress it and give it to someone else? Just wondering.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,123 Senior Member
    :popcorn:
    I am going to have to think about this
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    So, if your Muslim friend is hunting alone and shoots an animal, and it runs for a spell, he finds it later...dead, but not at the shot. What does he do? Leave it lay, being "unfit to eat", or dress it and give it to someone else? Just wondering.
    I'll have to ask him. I just shot him a text with the question.

    He was there when I shot my Colorado cow elk a few years back. I planned on sharing the meat with him, so I knew he would want to ensure a proper kill. The cow dropped at the shot, but when we got up to her, she kicked or something and, boy, did he get moving with his knife to slit the throat! He about hit Carl Lewis speed running up to it.

    EDIT: he just replied and said that a kill found the next day is perfectly fine. The goal of the Halaal practice is to avoid willfully allowing the animal to suffer, i.e. witnessing it dying slowly and doing nothing about it. Shooting it and having it run off and be recovered later isn't a problem because that was out of the hunter's control. As long as he doesn't waste good meat, it's all good.

    He said that the prayer he sates is roughly equivalent to, "In the name of God, I kill this animal." He said that he has to modify his approach when hunting an animal like a pheasant because of the surprise nature of the shot. For those hunts, he says his prayer before he hits the field when he's ready to start. That covers him for any of the ones he may shoot on that hunt.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,364 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    I'll have to ask him. I just shot him a text with the question.

    He was there when I shot my Colorado cow elk a few years back. I planned on sharing the meat with him, so I knew he would want to ensure a proper kill. The cow dropped at the shot, but when we got up to her, she kicked or something and, boy, did he get moving with his knife to slit the throat! He about hit Carl Lewis speed running up to it.

    EDIT: he just replied and said that a kill found the next day is perfectly fine. The goal of the Halaal practice is to avoid willfully allowing the animal to suffer, i.e. witnessing it dying slowly and doing nothing about it. Shooting it and having it run off and be recovered later isn't a problem because that was out of the hunter's control. As long as he doesn't waste good meat, it's all good.

    He said that the prayer he sates is roughly equivalent to, "In the name of God, I kill this animal." He said that he has to modify his approach when hunting an animal like a pheasant because of the surprise nature of the shot. For those hunts, he says his prayer before he hits the field when he's ready to start. That covers him for any of the ones he may shoot on that hunt.

    I think the bolded bit applies to all ethical hunters, does it not.? Having respect for the animal and ensuring it doesnt suffer..........etc.

    By the standard he uses, all the meat I harvest is Halal.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,155 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    I think the bolded bit applies to all ethical hunters, does it not.? Having respect for the animal and ensuring it doesnt suffer..........etc.

    By the standard he uses, all the meat I harvest is Halal.

    It certainly does, and I guess it was sort of one of the more ancient ethical codes for hunters. It's funny, I sort of alluded to the same thing and even asked if it's okay to simply walk up and put a headshot on the animal. He said that it's not, and that for whatever reason (he theorized that perhaps that since it's one of the oldest weapons/means available and death is so swift through its use), the Islamic rules stipulate that it must be a knife and the throat must be slit.

    My buddy posts to a lot of Muslim/Middle East hunting boards on Facebook, and says that he's been chided before for posting pictures of duck/birds, in particular, that did not have their throats slit. He explains that those birds died at the shot, and are Halaal accordingly. Regardless, a lot of guys who intend to post pics slit the throat on their kills no matter what to avoid harassment from fellow Muslim hunters who want to play Imam.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 5,032 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    I think the bolded bit applies to all ethical hunters, does it not.? Having respect for the animal and ensuring it doesnt suffer..........etc. .

    :agree: Something I have always done after the kill, I set down and pet him/her put fresh grass in its mouth and thank it for giving up its life.

    You can call me crazy, but it makes me feel better.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,981 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    :agree: Something I have always done after the kill, I set down and pet him/her put fresh grass in its mouth and thank it for giving up its life.
    A very ancient custom - as popularized on the movie "Avatar".
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,364 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    :agree: Something I have always done after the kill, I set down and pet him/her put fresh grass in its mouth and thank it for giving up its life.

    You can call me crazy, but it makes me feel better.

    JAY

    You are not crazy. I will always say a thank you to both the animal and the guy upstairs. Not as an apology, but as acknowledgement.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 5,032 Senior Member
    In 1950 when I got my first deer, I was hunting with my uncle and some Seminole friends, they taught me it was how they showed respect and thanks.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,981 Senior Member
    Channeling Sam:

    Taught:

    Taught is the past tense of the word teach. An example of taught is for a teacher to have presented a grammar lesson on commas to her class yesterday.

    tough
    təf/
    adjective
    adjective: tough; comparative adjective: tougher; superlative adjective: toughest

    1.
    (of a substance or object) strong enough to withstand adverse conditions or rough or careless handling.
    "tough backpacks for climbers"
    synonyms: durable, strong, resilient, sturdy, rugged, solid, stout, long-lasting, heavy-duty, industrial-strength, well built, made to last
    "tough leather gloves"
    antonyms: soft, flimsy, fragile
    (of a person or animal) able to endure hardship or pain; physically robust.
    "even at this ripe old age, he's still as tough as old boots"
    synonyms: robust, resilient, strong, hardy, rugged, flinty, fit; More
    stalwart, tough as nails
    "she'll survive—she's tough"
    antonyms: weak
    able to protect one's own interests or maintain one's own opinions without being intimidated by opposition; confident and determined.
    "she's both sensitive and tough"
    demonstrating a strict and uncompromising attitude or approach.
    "police have been getting tough with drivers"
    synonyms: strict, stern, severe, stringent, rigorous, hard, firm, hard-hitting, uncompromising; More
    unsentimental, unsympathetic
    "another tough report from the auditor"
    antonyms: soft, light, lenient
    (of a person) strong and prone to violence.
    "tough young teenagers"
    (of an area) notorious for violence and crime.
    (of food, especially meat) difficult to cut or chew.
    synonyms: chewy, leathery, gristly, stringy, fibrous
    "the steak was tough"
    antonyms: tender
    2.
    involving considerable difficulty or hardship; requiring great determination or effort.
    "the training has been quite tough"
    synonyms: arduous, onerous, strenuous, grueling, exacting, difficult, demanding, hard, taxing, tiring, exhausting, punishing, laborious, stressful, back-breaking, Herculean; More
    archaictoilsome
    "that exercise sure was tough"
    difficult, hard, baffling, knotty, thorny, tricky
    "these are tough questions"
    antonyms: easy
    used to express sympathy with someone in an unpleasant or difficult situation.
    "Poor kid. It's tough on her"
    used to express a lack of sympathy with someone.
    "I feel the way I feel, and if you don't like it, tough"

    noun
    noun: tough; plural noun: toughs

    1.
    a tough person, especially a gangster or criminal.
    "young toughs sporting their state-of-the-art firearms"
    synonyms: ruffian, thug, goon, hoodlum, hooligan; More
    informalroughneck, hood, heavy, bruiser, hardman, yahoo
    "a gang of toughs"

    verbinformal

    1.
    endure a period of hardship or difficulty.

    You're welcome! :rockon:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,364 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Channeling Sam:

    Taught:

    Taught is the past tense of the word teach. An example of taught is for a teacher to have presented a grammar lesson on commas to her class yesterday.

    tough
    təf/
    adjective
    adjective: tough; comparative adjective: tougher; superlative adjective: toughest

    1.
    (of a substance or object) strong enough to withstand adverse conditions or rough or careless handling.
    "tough backpacks for climbers"
    synonyms: durable, strong, resilient, sturdy, rugged, solid, stout, long-lasting, heavy-duty, industrial-strength, well built, made to last
    "tough leather gloves"
    antonyms: soft, flimsy, fragile
    (of a person or animal) able to endure hardship or pain; physically robust.
    "even at this ripe old age, he's still as tough as old boots"
    synonyms: robust, resilient, strong, hardy, rugged, flinty, fit; More
    stalwart, tough as nails
    "she'll survive—she's tough"
    antonyms: weak
    able to protect one's own interests or maintain one's own opinions without being intimidated by opposition; confident and determined.
    "she's both sensitive and tough"
    demonstrating a strict and uncompromising attitude or approach.
    "police have been getting tough with drivers"
    synonyms: strict, stern, severe, stringent, rigorous, hard, firm, hard-hitting, uncompromising; More
    unsentimental, unsympathetic
    "another tough report from the auditor"
    antonyms: soft, light, lenient
    (of a person) strong and prone to violence.
    "tough young teenagers"
    (of an area) notorious for violence and crime.
    (of food, especially meat) difficult to cut or chew.
    synonyms: chewy, leathery, gristly, stringy, fibrous
    "the steak was tough"
    antonyms: tender
    2.
    involving considerable difficulty or hardship; requiring great determination or effort.
    "the training has been quite tough"
    synonyms: arduous, onerous, strenuous, grueling, exacting, difficult, demanding, hard, taxing, tiring, exhausting, punishing, laborious, stressful, back-breaking, Herculean; More
    archaictoilsome
    "that exercise sure was tough"
    difficult, hard, baffling, knotty, thorny, tricky
    "these are tough questions"
    antonyms: easy
    used to express sympathy with someone in an unpleasant or difficult situation.
    "Poor kid. It's tough on her"
    used to express a lack of sympathy with someone.
    "I feel the way I feel, and if you don't like it, tough"

    noun
    noun: tough; plural noun: toughs

    1.
    a tough person, especially a gangster or criminal.
    "young toughs sporting their state-of-the-art firearms"
    synonyms: ruffian, thug, goon, hoodlum, hooligan; More
    informalroughneck, hood, heavy, bruiser, hardman, yahoo
    "a gang of toughs"

    verbinformal

    1.
    endure a period of hardship or difficulty.

    You're welcome! :rockon:

    Please give him a break Zorba, he has difficulty with words and phrases like 'Thinning the herd' etc . Heck, if you told him to go to hell he would get lost..........:tooth:
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,981 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Please give him a break Zorba, he has difficulty with words and phrases like 'Thinning the herd' etc . Heck, if you told him to go to hell he would get lost..........:tooth:

    Yea... ya gots a point! :jester:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Wadda you guys have against Jay? He's a good guy, and probably has more hunting experience under his belt than the two of you combined.

    Besides, weren't you taught not to be so tough on someone just because he uses the wrong word?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,364 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    Wadda you guys have against Jay? He's a good guy, and probably has more hunting experience under his belt than the two of you combined.

    Besides, weren't you taught not to be so tough on someone just because he uses the wrong word?

    Neither Zorba's nor my post was aimed at Jay...............Check out Wambli's post #17.

    I thought moderators were fair game.......................

    I apologise to you Jay if you think my post was aimed at you.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Halal, like virtually ALL muslim tradition and theology has simply been stolen and bastardized from ancient Hebrew writings. The writings of Moses concerning "clean" and "unclean" animals, and the procedures for slaughtering the clean ones specifically forbid eating "things strangled" and the blood of the animal. Most of these ancient rituals were actually primitive efforts at hygienic butchery and prevention of spoilage of the meat, long before the invention of refrigeration or other means of preserving food. Pork was considered "unclean" before Trichinosis was discovered because other types of meat (beef, goat, etc.) could be eaten almost raw without fear of disease. Not so for pork, which absolutely must be cooked well done.

    Even as recently as the late 19th. and early 20th. century, the way to honor a guest was to offer him freshly killed meat. While rural families would subsist all winter on smoked or cured pork, when the circuit-riding preacher came to a family's home for Sunday dinner between the morning and evening church services, he was usually served the only fresh meat available- - - -one of the family's chickens. Just about anywhere in the rural south, the term "chicken-eating preacher" was part of the local lexicon. Some things never change! The self-important people who ridicule biblical writings are often showing a woeful ignorance of the subject at hand.
    Jerry
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    orchidman wrote: »
    Neither Zorba's nor my post was aimed at Jay...............Check out Wambli's post #17.

    I thought moderators were fair game.......................

    I apologise to you Jay if you think my post was aimed at you.

    I thought it unusual for you to go at Jay. My apologies to you and Zorba for the misunderstanding, but I did want to demonstrate the proper use of taught and tough. :jester:
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 8,364 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    I thought it unusual for you to go at Jay. My apologies to you and Zorba for the misunderstanding, but I did want to demonstrate the proper use of taught and tough. :jester:

    We're good Jerry. No apology necessary.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,615 Senior Member
    What an interesting thread. I sure learned some stuff. Thanks, all!
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 5,032 Senior Member
    No need to apologize , I'm the worst speller in the world, there is a dictionary on my desk at all times.
    Teach wrote: »
    Halal, like virtually ALL muslim tradition and theology has simply been stolen and bastardized from ancient Hebrew writings. The writings of Moses concerning "clean" and "unclean" animals, and the procedures for slaughtering the clean ones specifically forbid eating "things strangled" and the blood of the animal. Most of these ancient rituals were actually primitive efforts at hygienic butchery and prevention of spoilage of the meat, long before the invention of refrigeration or other means of preserving food. Pork was considered "unclean" before Trichinosis was discovered because other types of meat (beef, goat, etc.) could be eaten almost raw without fear of disease. Not so for pork, which absolutely must be cooked well done.
    Jerry

    :agree: :that: Since there are Jewish people in my family and I grew up on Miami Beach which was about 70% Jewish, what Jerry said was right on , I will add FYI, when they process Kosher beef they only use the front part of the animal , anything behind the spine and fish without scales, and reptiles is not Kosher

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,981 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    I thought it unusual for you to go at Jay. My apologies to you and Zorba for the misunderstanding, but I did want to demonstrate the proper use of taught and tough. :jester:

    No worries, we were just jerking Wambli's chain.

    And Jerry's right about the reasons for the various dietary restrictions in the Bible and other ancient texts. Its just too bad many don't recognize this for what it is instead of assigning superstitious credence to it. The same thing goes for circumcision and other genital mutilations for that matter.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    Six-Gun wrote: »
    I'll have to ask him. I just shot him a text with the question.

    He was there when I shot my Colorado cow elk a few years back. I planned on sharing the meat with him, so I knew he would want to ensure a proper kill. The cow dropped at the shot, but when we got up to her, she kicked or something and, boy, did he get moving with his knife to slit the throat! He about hit Carl Lewis speed running up to it.

    EDIT: he just replied and said that a kill found the next day is perfectly fine. The goal of the Halaal practice is to avoid willfully allowing the animal to suffer, i.e. witnessing it dying slowly and doing nothing about it. Shooting it and having it run off and be recovered later isn't a problem because that was out of the hunter's control. As long as he doesn't waste good meat, it's all good.

    He said that the prayer he sates is roughly equivalent to, "In the name of God, I kill this animal." He said that he has to modify his approach when hunting an animal like a pheasant because of the surprise nature of the shot. For those hunts, he says his prayer before he hits the field when he's ready to start. That covers him for any of the ones he may shoot on that hunt.

    Thanks for asking him, that clears that up. I was just wondering.
  • sherwoodsherwood Senior Member Posts: 1,220 Senior Member
    I have some ammo that's made with pork that I give to any Muslims that ask.
    I may be old but I ain't dead!
    DPRMD
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