Upcoming Re-barrel project - need some input

JayhawkerJayhawker ModeratorPosts: 15,070 Senior Member
I've decided to re-barrel one of the Savage Sisters...the 20" .308 to be exact.
It's accurate and set up right...but the .308 is........well...it's boring....
It's going to be in .260 Remington, but I'm undecided about barrel length (24"? 26"?) and twist.
I want to get the most out of the cartridge and will be shooting 130 grain class bullets (I've got a pile of 6.5 129 grain SSTs)...
Your thoughts please...
Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
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Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    A .260 is just a .308 with a smaller hole up front- - - -the parent brass is all the same. I don't think it's possible to cram in enough powder, even very slow-burning stuff, to benefit from a 26" barrel. All it does is get you a couple of inches closer to the target. If you were shooting a 6.5-06 or a .264 Mag. it might be good to have that extra barrel length. I like to consult the Shilen website on twist rate, and when I ordered the barrel for a 6.5-06 I'm getting ready to build for a friend in California, we chose the 1 in 8" twist. They say that one will stabilize bullets heavier than 130 grains, which gives us the option of going to 140's or even the 160 RN bullet if deep penetration is on the menu.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • WeatherbyWeatherby Senior Member Posts: 4,771 Senior Member
    leave the girl alone and find a 3rd sister
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    Weatherby wrote: »
    leave the girl alone and find a 3rd sister

    Nope...not inclined to build another one and she spends more time sitting in the safe than any of my other rifles...want to turn her into something I'll actually use.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    1-8.5 twist for the 130's (I always use the 1-8).
    With the 130's it will take you to 1K easily.
    I would use H-4350 or Varget
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Nope...not inclined to build another one and she spends more time sitting in the safe than any of my other rifles...want to turn her into something I'll actually use.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,865 Senior Member
    Ok Scott, I'd go 260,8t 4groove ratchet from Shilen. Like Jerry, I don't think the 260 will gain much from those additional 2 inches.

    I'll be back in a few with the quickload data to either support or refute my thought.

    edited to add:
    I'm back with QL numbers
    the two fastest powders that are readily available for the 260 with 129 SST's are IMR7828SSC and Ramshot Hunter (Norma MRP beats them both, but appears to be made from unobtainium in most cases)

    7828- 24"-2842fps; 26" 2869fps- difference 54fps
    Hunter-24" 2822fps; 26" 2894fps- Difference 72fps

    You'll have to decide if that small gain in Vel is worth the decreased "handiness" of the longer tube

    edited again to add Shilen's link
    http://www.shilen.com/savageBarrels.html
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    So does this mean you will have a short braked .308 barrel for a Savage action laying around not being used:devil:
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    So does this mean you will have a short braked .308 barrel for a Savage action laying around not being used:devil:

    Well, I'll have a short .308 barrel for a Savage action...I haven't got around to throwing a brake on the .308 yet (The .300 has the FTE brake on it)...it was in the plans up until I decided to go with the .260. Given the fact that whomever gets the barrel is getting it for pretty much free, it would be a really great time to have the barrel threaded and a brake installed...I'll also be able to tell them exactly how many rounds have traveled down that particular bore..
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »

    You'll have to decide if that small gain in Vel is worth the decreased "handiness" of the longer tube

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    Thanks Paul...appreciate the input..."handiness" ain't a word that goes with that rifle, it already weighs 15 pounds, but I think a 24" tube will get the job done....now, as far as a brake is concerned...I really like my FTE, it works but it's kinda ugly...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,508 Senior Member
    Nothing to add, other than......Cool. I sure like 6.5's. That will make a dandy LR deer/whatever rifle.

    If that old barrel needs a good home, I know where you can send it. :tooth:
  • deadeyedeadeye Member Posts: 73 Member
    A Shilen not precision. Hmmm, Tony Boyer and a lot of people might just want to argue that statement.
    No Need To Run, You Will Only Die Tired
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    You mean to tell me that something besides a .270 is boring??? Hahaha!

    J/K and couldn't help myself. Seriously, I've kinda had change of heart lately on some calibers and barrel lengths. Iffin it's me, a .260 I'd do in 24 inches and a good not too tight twist rate. Something like 1-9. That should stabilize up to 140 grain spitzers I would think. Here's some of my reasoning. You gain about as much with loser twist as with barrel length. So a 1-9 twist with a 24 inch barrel is not extreme in either direction and will make a very versatile accurate rifle.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    24" with an Ops Inc or Holland brake on the end. Will finish 26" +/-

    1-8" Twist

    Do NOT get a Shilen barrel! You are building a precision rifle. Do it justice. (I have a Shilen on my .223 Heavy. It does NOT compare to my Liljas or Krieger.)

    This is right off the Lilja site. In stock: 6.5-8 3-groove SS Sendaro contour $325

    Not saying Shilen is a bad barrel. But they are just a step up from a factory barrel. Guess I'd consider them a 'hunting' barrel. Not precision.

    130/140gr Bergers or 140gr A-Max for bullets. Or the SST bullets you have now.

    Shilen has different grades of barrels. They make some garden variety ones and they make some air gauged ones that are very accurate. But I am partial to Krieger because I prefer a true cut rifling which puts little or no stress in the barrel. The rest of them have to be treated to remove the stress set up in them from being button rifled. Of course that includes your Lilja too. Only the Krieger of most of the most popular brands is Cut rifling and not button cut.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,865 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »

    Do NOT get a Shilen barrel! You are building a precision rifle. Do it justice. (I have a Shilen on my .223 Heavy. It does NOT compare to my Liljas or Krieger.)
    BP, I didn't see that Lilja made replacement barrels for Savage rifles, If I had, I would have recommended them first.

    In my brief search, I found Savage, A&B, E.R. Shaw and Shilen barrels for drop in replacement. I just picked what I felt was the best from what I found
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    You mean to tell me that something besides a .270 is boring??? Hahaha!

    After sending a couple of boxcar loads of .308 downrange in the last few decades, it's time to move on...the cartridge has taught me pretty much all it can...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    I got you bro. I'm with you on this. Why do you think I got away from my .270 and branched out to so many calibers. Boring! Yep they can all get boring once you've done about all you can with them. My rifle killed a pile of deer and even won a few matches. I tried several loads with it and then noticed what other people on my deer lease were using and it all just sounded sexier. But I've come full circle on that rifle and now have new found interest. However, I have so many interests I don't know where to start first.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • kansashunterkansashunter Senior Member Posts: 1,444 Senior Member
    I can't help you with length or twist but have you heard of sharp shooter supply? I looked at them for a trigger in my savage and they have barrels also.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    OK guys...First...thanks for all the recommendations and the help. I decided that I'll be going with a McGowen Barrel (Kalispell MT) 24", 1 in 8.5 twist, Heavy Varmint Contour, Recessed Crown, & Matte finish...Depending on whether they sell a closed bottom brake, I may have the thing threaded and braked when they put the barrel together...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    McGowen has impressed me so far.
    I have three McGowen's in 6mm (all 1-8T and all have shot sub 1/4 MOA @ 100 yards in load development) two in MOA Maximum's.
    One 6x47 Lapua MOA Maximum weighed less than 7.5 pounds with a 15" barrel and scope, averaged right at 1/2 MOA groups for four separate 5-shot groups at 500 yards and for four 5-shot groups @ 750 yards in a competition (don't get to choose your conditions in a match).
    In other words all eight of my 5-shot groups at those two distances averaged together right at 1/2 MOA for group size.
    Here is a 3-shot group with another one of my 6x47 L McGowen barrels on a MOA Maximum handgun at 500 yards off of a bi-pod:
    IMG_3160.jpg

    My McGowen barreled Rem XP-100 6.5-284 (1-8T) rear grip XP, has shot some equally nice groups.
    Here is one pic of a 4-shot group at 622 yards shooting prone off of a bi-pod.
    The second pic you can see all 4 hits better (Good conditions are great to shoot in!)
    McReeXP636-1.jpg
    IMG_4120.jpg
    5-shot group at 500 yards during the MOA Match:
    McReeXP364.jpg

    Jayhawker wrote: »
    OK guys...First...thanks for all the recommendations and the help. I decided that I'll be going with a McGowen Barrel (Kalispell MT) 24", 1 in 8.5 twist, Heavy Varmint Contour, Recessed Crown, & Matte finish...Depending on whether they sell a closed bottom brake, I may have the thing threaded and braked when they put the barrel together...
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    I think McGowen may make a solid-bottomed brake-Not sure though.
    Never used the Ops Inc brake, but I have used a host of others.
    Personal favorite is Holland's Radial.
    Kirby Allen's PK (Pain-Killer) brake is also a real good one-Use it on my 338 Lapua Improved.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    Very impressive groups...Thanks for posting those - takes a lot of the hesitancy out of the equation...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    Thank you.
    I wish I could do that every day.
    It is is always nice to have good days behind the trigger.
    On brakes, have you watched the video of the 7mm SAUM XP?
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    Yes....quite impressive...I imagine that would calm my rifle down considerably...

    NOW...to flute the barrel or not....I'm leaning towards having them do it with six flutes...whatcha all think?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    Just depends if you like flutes or not
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    Just depends if you like flutes or not

    Well...there are all kinds of pro - con arguments (valid or not)....but I've got a fluted barrel on one of my ARs and it's a pretty darn good shooter...and I kinda like the look...besides, I already had some guy grind some grooves in the bolt...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,052 Senior Member
    Sounds like a fluted barrel is in your future...:up:
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Bolt and barrel with matching flutes is sexy.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,070 Senior Member
    :nono: No twisty flutes on my barrel...just some conservative, straight, functional flutes
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • black mambablack mamba Member Posts: 158 Member
    How about a gain twist fluting, anyone ever see that? Might look kinda good.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,429 Senior Member
    Unless those flutes will play music, why bother?
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    To say nothing about being a couple of pounds lighter.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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