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Subsonic vs. Hi-Vel - A fun test.

ZeeZee Senior MemberPosts: 28,069 Senior Member
My friend had a big buck with a wound on the front of his chest from fighting. It had become infected and grown to a Volley Ball size gelatinous growth that causing him to limp badly while the rest of his health deteriorated. He had spoken with a vet on the many options available. Darting to inject medication required a bunch of paperwork and regs and there was no other reliable method to administer meds. So, he asked if puncturing the abscess in some way might help. She said that if he could drain the wound without causing more damage, that there was a chance it would heal.

Break out the guns!!!

We worked up a subsonic load with his .223 Remington using 65gr Soft Point bullets. Not knowing what would happen if he shot the abscess, we needed to properly test the hydrostatic results. Science!!!

We lined up several water jugs at 20 yards to see how many it would penetrate and what the hydrolic properties would be. Turning the first jug on angle, to mimic a grazing shot on the very edge of the abscess, we readied to record.

65gr%20Sub%202_zpsdz13cvkp.jpg

Here is the video.

http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/lovinmycaitlynn/Shooting/65gr%20Sub%201_zpsc3efrrs2.mp4

The bullet penetrated through the corner of the first, passed through the second and third, and dented the front of the fourth, falling to rest on the board.

Then, just for laughs, we decided to line up the jugs and compare the results to a 52gr Hollow Point at high velocity and let my boy have at them.

http://vid26.photobucket.com/albums/c106/lovinmycaitlynn/Shooting/52gr%20HP%20HV_zpsoj9moe0x.mp4

The bullet penetrated 2 jugs and the rear of the jacket was recovered.

Quite a dramatic difference between the jugs and the recovered bullets.

52gr%20HP%20HV_zpsxr5ojhtg.jpg

Wednesday evening, he got a shot at the buck and said there seemed to be no result. Unsure as to whether he hit the abscess or not, he tried again on Thursday evening. Stating that the result was almost identical to the sub load water jug result. Yellow **** blew out the back of the wound in a large torrent. Not the vaporized spray of the higher velocity bullet. He then ran off leaving a trail of **** on the ground as he went. Following it for a distance, my friend said he found no blood on the ground.

I am waiting to hear how the buck looks now.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,069 Senior Member
    My friend has not seen him since Thursday evening. Hopefully he is just avoiding being seen and has not succumbed to the injury. Maybe we will see him this evening while we are after an Axis deer.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,069 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I had the same basic result with 55 grain Vmax. Assuming 1100-ish FPS, (pre chrono days) they went into a jug or three and stopped. Iirc the tip fell out, but just the tip.

    Just the tip?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Your boy's reaction was worth all the work no?
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Western PAPosts: 8,234 Senior Member
    Seriously??

    You didnt film a basketball sized zit being shot with a 223? :zzzz:
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,069 Senior Member
    I wasn't there when he got a shot at the buck.

    But, here is a pic he sent me of the wound prior to being shot.

    474CEDFC-2FCF-45EF-A72C-855241D48B51_zpsopsdtuyy.jpg
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,698 Senior Member
    Your boy's reaction was worth all the work no?

    Hee! He's a bit small for things like high-velocity, big meplat .45-70's at this point. I think Zee has not yet begun to mess with his mind!:cool2:
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,698 Senior Member
    Seriously??

    You didnt film a basketball sized zit being shot with a 223? :zzzz:

    I suspect there would be a serious train-wreck quality to such a video - - you both DO and DON'T want to see such a thing.

    Looks like a buck worth keeping alive if you can though. Good on you guys for making the attempt. This may be the first recorded effort of lancing a boil with a bullet.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Western PAPosts: 8,234 Senior Member
    As long as he got it low, it should drain out. Its not in a spot where he should get foreign matter in. Deer bounce back pretty well. I predict if it drains, in a year you wont be able to tell which one he is. It was worth a shot either way.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,069 Senior Member
    As long as he got it low, it should drain out. Its not in a spot where he should get foreign matter in. Deer bounce back pretty well. I predict if it drains, in a year you wont be able to tell which one he is. It was worth a shot either way.


    This was kind of our thinking as well.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Interesting, but yea.... ewwwwww.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    I wasn't there when he got a shot at the buck.

    But, here is a pic he sent me of the wound prior to being shot.

    474CEDFC-2FCF-45EF-A72C-855241D48B51_zpsopsdtuyy.jpg
    I think he identifies as a doe.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Miami, FL almost in the USA ;)Posts: 6,992 Senior Member
    Why not a 40 gr subsonic .22 LR?

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Why not a 40 gr subsonic .22 LR?

    D

    Better chance of the heavier bullet poking straight through. Being a spitzer instead of a round nose, plus jacketed mean a much better chance of going through clean.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,698 Senior Member
    BigDanS wrote: »
    Why not a 40 gr subsonic .22 LR?

    D

    The answer's pretty well already been covered, but the discussion is illustrating to me how warped my own mind is: A few minutes ago I actually started thinking about ideal cast bullet shape, caliber, alloy type, and speed for the purpose of draining pus from an abscess. . . because, yeah, the need to drain a grapefruit-sized abscess with a bullet comes up SOOOO often. :roll:
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • timctimc Senior Member TexasPosts: 6,684 Senior Member
    Long range surgery, too cool!
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Western PAPosts: 8,234 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    it was DISGUSTING!!!
    Everyone with large animals has had to take a spin and puke at least once while doing barn surgery.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Everyone with large animals has had to take a spin and puke at least once while doing barn surgery.

    Not I, but it has been a near run thing.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,287 Senior Member
    I've got this annoying zit on my butt...and I was wondering.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • NNNN Senior Member NCPosts: 25,221 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    I've got this annoying zit on my butt...and I was wondering.....
    cpj will do it on May 27, 2017
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member In the sticks, OHPosts: 5,617 Senior Member
    Cool, interesting, yuck!

    I hope the buck makes it.
  • big elkbig elk Member Laramie, WyomingPosts: 111 Member
    If you will be very still I'll take a shot at your butt !!!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    It is a trap guys! He is going to make you buy him dinner first.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,698 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    It is a trap guys! He is going to make you buy him dinner first.

    All kinds of "EEEEEEEWWWWWWW!" in this thread. . .
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 28,069 Senior Member
    We saw him tonight. He is pretty darn skinny. The growth is still there, but the skin seems a little flabbier. Though, there appears to still be some fluid inside. He is limping pretty bad.

    DSC_0026_zpsbmqbhqjl.jpg

    I'm not gonna hold my breath that he makes it.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member WyomingPosts: 8,566 Senior Member
    Cool experiment.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Renton, WashingtonPosts: 2,598 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Sure thing JH, you bare it and stand still, I'll shoot it off you.
    Can I do it blindfolded? :rotflmao:
    I'd pay money to see that....
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    With an abscess that big it is really going to have to be kept open for several days and a strong course of antibiotics. It is a real shame but a cull is the best thing for that deer now.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Somewhere north of MozambiquePosts: 6,637 Senior Member
    The buck will either make it, or not...

    But, from this day forward, the phrase "torrent of pus" will forever occupy space in my internal filling cabinet.

    Thanks for that.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Under a logPosts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Everyone with large animals has had to take a spin and puke at least once while doing barn surgery.

    :agree: Had a Hereford bull that got bit by a copperhead on the neck and made a huge abscess on the side of his neck. Called vet, got bull in the head gate/squeeze chute and vet lanced it at bottom and top, drained it, and put in a weep tube in bottom hole, and a tube on top hole to irrigate wound with antibiotic. Irrigated the mess with water and then antibiotic. Did I mention that a 2,000 lb. bull with a really painful sore on his neck is a handful in a head catch gate and squeeze chute? The antibiotic burned like fire; got some in a scrape on my hand while dealing with 'wooly bully' in the chute going bonkers. Smell of the stuff that came out of that abscess would have knocked a buzzard off a gut wagon had there been a buzzard and gut wagon available.

    Had to irrigate wound with antibiotic daily for 5 days. Getting the bull in the head gate/squeeze chute was fun; he knew what was coming. Vet made a visit after 5 days and pulled tubes and closed holes. Couldn't get that danged bull in the barn lot again for about 6 months. He'd had all the fun he could stand, and I had, too.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 2,602 Senior Member
    Take another shot at it, ya can't hurt him!
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
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