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I don't even know what to say

CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior MemberPosts: 14,206 Senior Member
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/30/boy-scouts-will-allow-transgender-children-into-programs.html

They are changing policy because of one case, in New Jersey, an 8 year old. There is no way they should be even considering what this kids "gender identity" is until after the child has gone through puberty, minimum. The Scouts will be hearing that I no longer wish to participate on the district or national level, I will continue to support our local Pack and Troop until such a time that I no longer know any of the kids in the program. So disappointed in them right now, bowing to political correctness.
I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
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Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    If a girl wants to identify with and do boy things at that age, so be it. Calling her, "him" and "transgender" is messed up. It is tough enough being a kid and there is no reason to inject an adult controversy into their lives. When the kid grows up, they are more than welcome to do as they please.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,206 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    If a girl wants to identify with and do boy things at that age, so be it. Calling her, "him" and "transgender" is messed up. It is tough enough being a kid and there is no reason to inject an adult controversy into their lives. When the kid grows up, they are more than welcome to do as they please.

    Yeah, I need no more crap from adults in Scouting than I have already experienced, much less crap that will get an ACLU lawyer up in my grill.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,206 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Umm, deciding the gender is easy. We all learned the difference in school. Oh well, not my circus or my transgendered monkeys.
    Side note, maybe it's me, but around here I see a lot of women scout leaders. I find this wrong. Just an observation.

    Mothers of boys do just fine as Scout leaders, your mother managed you just fine, look how good you turned out.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • RimfireRimfire Senior Member Posts: 849 Senior Member
    As an Eagle Scout and a Scout leader, I have welcomed gay fathers and their son into our Cub Scout Pack. They were very involved in their son's Scouting experience. But they weren't allowed to be leaders, which was disappointing. We now have a phenomenal Scout leader in our troop. She has been on many trips with our troop, including Philmont. So being inclusive in my opinion is fine.

    With that said, I have seen a teenager kicked out of a Girl Scout troop because she/he began to self-identify as a male. It never made national news. I see this as yet another overblown distraction news story.

    While I'm all for being inclusive, I'm dead tired of bending over backwards to make people "feel" comfortable. If you want in, then step in and step up. Otherwise, move the hell along and let the rest of us get on with our lives without your drama.


    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    G&A Forum Member since: October 2000; Life Member: GOA, IWLA, NRA, & Escapees.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    The Gender Benders are trying to take over every aspect of traditional American life!
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Senior Member Posts: 2,725 Senior Member
    Jerm, you always make a hellova lot of common sense in your Posts. Just thought I'd tell you that.
  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    Penis equals Boy Scouts, no penis equals GIRL SCOUTS!
    Support your local Scouts!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    I'm all about simple solutions. If the Girl Scouts want to do Boy Scout stuff, then change the Girl Scout program to include all those activities, studies, badges things to INCLUDE those things. If the Boy Scouts want to include some of the Girl Scout program, then change the Boy Scout program to include those things. Pleasing everybody is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

    UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES allow the Boy Scouts to sell ANYTHING resembling Girl Scout cookies. I'm already in hock for a crapload of that 'crack in a box' the Girl Scouts sell. I can't stand having to fight a war on two fronts! :tooth:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,206 Senior Member
    roadking wrote: »
    Penis equals Boy Scouts, no penis equals GIRL SCOUTS!

    Can you imagine dealing with this at camp, much less high adventure camps? No thanks. You know you are going to have a target on your back as an adult leader, folks with an agenda waiting to make an example.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    I saw this last night and was disappointed by BSA's decision. This probably won't be an issue in Cub Scouts, but when the kids are in Boy Scouts, and go on camping trips, etc., it could be. A 14-15 year old girl who self identifies as a boy is going to be a problem in camps that only have one bathing facility. There are some practical issues that need to be worked out such as this.

    We have the tail wagging the dog. It's good to accommodate minorities as much as possible, but there has to be a line defined by common sense. I think this may just cross that line.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    Can you imagine dealing with this at camp, much less high adventure camps? No thanks. You know you are going to have a target on your back as an adult leader, folks with an agenda waiting to make an example.

    The "Venture Scouts", a part of BSA, is co-ed for those, I believe between 16 and 21. When oldest was a councilor at camp last summer, there were 3 18yo girls as councilors. All I heard was a rumor or 2. Not involving our son, BTW.

    I am so glad I am just a dad now, and not a leader. C'mon kids (ours), make Eagle while it is still respected and get out before it crumbles.
    Support your local Scouts!
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,986 Senior Member
    roadking wrote: »
    Penis equals Boy Scouts, no penis equals GIRL SCOUTS!

    Exactly. Its biology, the only "true" reality - in this world at least!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    A friend of mine was making the argument that Boy Scouts are so much more respected and do more things, to which my response; "Then improve Girl Scouts, don't damage Boy Scouts. Good things take work. Stupid, destructive things are easy."
    Guess the libs just want an easy path...at someone else's expense. As usual.
    Support your local Scouts!
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,206 Senior Member
    roadking wrote: »
    The "Venture Scouts", a part of BSA, is co-ed for those, I believe between 16 and 21. When oldest was a councilor at camp last summer, there were 3 18yo girls as councilors. All I heard was a rumor or 2. Not involving our son, BTW.

    I am so glad I am just a dad now, and not a leader. C'mon kids (ours), make Eagle while it is still respected and get out before it crumbles.

    The BSA has women working at camps in different capacities all of the time, paid employees. Dumping this crap on the Troop or Pack level is a load on the volunteers that nobody signed up for. Venture camps are set up with policies in place already, I have not attended one, I would assume they are run like your every day camp.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,046 Senior Member
    After spending the past weekend on a cub scout camping trip (got another polar bear badge!), here is what I have to say-

    I could not care one way or the other, as long as the parents friggin HELP OUT! It always falls on 2 or 3 of us to do every damn thing while the rest sit there and stare.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,958 Senior Member
    Put a fork in it, its done.

    The troop I was with USED to support 2 cub packs. After the first run at making it a social experiment, there are zero cub packs in our area. 20% of the adults from the troop quit. The scoutmaster stepped down. They dont have to worry about funding, at this rate, by the time its cut, there wont be much left to fund except a new merit badge for "dress like a rainbow" for 5 troops nationwide.

    They have been trying to make the Boy Scouts into Girl Scouts for years, now its official. Some of you dont realize the BS that you have to cut through to get them to act in a manner that they can function without getting hurt. If they cant function, then they cant do the fun stuff, its arts and crafts all around because its safe. Every kid that came in while I was there had been told they had ADD at some point. I told them they were boys, get over it, pay attention and you will have a good time. Ya know what? If you give them flint and steel, take them into the woods, sit on a cooler that has food in it, tell them once they get a fire going they can eat, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM are able to remember what they were told about building a fire. There is no attention disorder, they know, they are just not motivated to remember. Had a kid tell me he had anger issues when he was doping off. I told him he was 12, he has nothing to be angry about, get back to it. Last I heard he was the Senior Patrol leader.

    I am so glad my son Eagled while it was almost a worthwhile organization to belong to.

    ...........................

    There are women in scouting because the dads dont show up, or there is no dad. Believe me, if someone volunteers, you take them. If they dont volunteer, you conscript them, if they dont jump ship, you give them more work.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,958 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    After spending the past weekend on a cub scout camping trip (got another polar bear badge!), here is what I have to say-

    I could not care one way or the other, as long as the parents friggin HELP OUT! It always falls on 2 or 3 of us to do every damn thing while the rest sit there and stare.

    When you get to Scouts, that will change. Cubs the parents treat like a baby sitting service. You will still have 2-5 people doing most of the work and a lot of people making suggestions but if you have a good troop, those who make suggestions get to act upon them.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    When you get to Scouts, that will change. Cubs the parents treat like a baby sitting service. You will still have 2-5 people doing most of the work and a lot of people making suggestions but if you have a good troop, those who make suggestions get to act upon them.

    I coached a youth basketball team one year. One of the parents started making suggestions to me about how I should coach. I told him it was a great idea, but could he help me coach the team so that it would be implemented correctly. He never made another suggestion.

    Getting back to scouts, I remember when I was a scout we had things like snipe hunts, sending new kids (like me) to other patrols for left handed pot scrubbers and other things like that. When I became a leader, I suggested some of these things and was told that was now considered hazing, and was verboten. We still have fun, though, and I loved my time in the organization. It's sad to see that it has succumbed to the forces of political correctness.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    I will note; our troop, and the ones we associate with, do not look favorably on this...unfortunately, a couple of the Cub higher ups are in favor of anything along these lines. Luckily, only a couple of them.

    MSGA (Make Scouting Great Again)
    Support your local Scouts!
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,986 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    ... but could he help me coach the team so that it would be implemented correctly. He never made another suggestion.
    Moose Turd Pie!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,206 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    After spending the past weekend on a cub scout camping trip (got another polar bear badge!), here is what I have to say-

    I could not care one way or the other, as long as the parents friggin HELP OUT! It always falls on 2 or 3 of us to do every damn thing while the rest sit there and stare.

    Boss them around, at the very least their kids will see that sitting on your duff not helping will get you crap from the guy in charge.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,126 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    After spending the past weekend on a cub scout camping trip (got another polar bear badge!), here is what I have to say-

    I could not care one way or the other, as long as the parents friggin HELP OUT! It always falls on 2 or 3 of us to do every damn thing while the rest sit there and stare.
    That is the American way. I got shanghaied to be a Cub Master to save a Pack and my boys were not old enough to be Cubs at the time.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Nope, my boys will never be a part of cub/Boy Scouts. I do not care how conservative a local chapter is, they are still a part of the whole.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Forget Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Just combine them at every level and call it Scouting. Kids grow up real fast nowadays, so I'm sure all the Scouts would approve of camping out together at Jamborees and such. Lotsa fun. Instead of peddling cookies and popcorn, they could sell condoms and flavored lubes.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,126 Senior Member
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    U R sick

    Not sick, just cynical and sarcastic. My outrageous post was to illustrate the inevitable result of constantly applying the diluting, corrosive, and corrupting influence of political correctness to an institution dedicated to traditional values and mores. The erosion, and eventual disappearance of those values and mores is the unavoidable and damnable fate of Boy and Girl Scouting. This gender-bending nonsense is the beginning of the slippery slope to a dystopic view of reality and the obliteration of character.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 25,126 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Not sick, just cynical and sarcastic. My outrageous post was to illustrate the inevitable result of constantly applying the diluting, corrosive, and corrupting influence of political correctness to an institution dedicated to traditional values and mores. The erosion, and eventual disappearance of those values and mores is the unavoidable and damnable fate of Boy and Girl Scouting. This gender-bending nonsense is the beginning of the slippery slope to a dystopic view of reality and the obliteration of character.
    Fine; but, the other comment was just wrong.
  • roadkingroadking Senior Member Posts: 3,056 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    Fine; but, the other comment was just wrong.

    That's why I didn't bother responding.
    Support your local Scouts!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    The Scout thing-- I totally respect you guys that volunteer for scouts. And that is your party, you do as you wish. My own kids' experiences with scouting-- I just wish that you were their leaders. My daughter was disappointed that girl scouts was more about selling cookies, tea parties, history and etiquette vs. the cool stuff they could have done. My son's boy scouts consisted of semi-**** parent leaders that were only interested in getting glory for their own sons. I really tried to volunteer, but it was next to impossible to fight through the stupid.

    Gender-- It is a social construct. Society has determined that there are "boy" things and there are "girl" things. And by "things" I do not mean sexual organs. Society has determined that boys should not do certain activities and girls should not do certain activities due to their sex. That is all it is.

    Sex-- Sex is the DNA that you were not only born with, but conceived with. It is the basis of your humanity. It is part of being a human, heck... even just a mammal.

    Here is where we have problems.... Shooting/hunting/killing animals is "boy" gender (as determined by society). Cooking and sewing is determined to be "girl" gender. Gender is a very fluid concept. Perfectly normal boys are cooking and sewing. They grow up, paint their nails, belly dance, and wear skirts. Perfectly normal girls are reloading their own ammo, and killing the hell out of animals. Plus they are poking the dead animals' eyes out!

    Here is where we have a problem... People have been confusing gender with sex. They seem to want the genetic boy/man wearing the skirt to comply with their socially constructed view of girls/women. That person may already be very confused about the whole gender/sex thing already, then to have people actually push that person to identify with the opposite sex and convince them that mutilating their perfectly normal bodies to conform with a silly social construct is the right thing to do.

    Throughout history there has been effeminate men and masculine women. This is natural and perfectly normal. Why can't we all come together and accept that?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 14,206 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    The Scout thing-- I totally respect you guys that volunteer for scouts. And that is your party, you do as you wish. My own kids' experiences with scouting-- I just wish that you were their leaders. My daughter was disappointed that girl scouts was more about selling cookies, tea parties, history and etiquette vs. the cool stuff they could have done. My son's boy scouts consisted of semi-**** parent leaders that were only interested in getting glory for their own sons. I really tried to volunteer, but it was next to impossible to fight through the stupid.

    Gender-- It is a social construct. Society has determined that there are "boy" things and there are "girl" things. And by "things" I do not mean sexual organs. Society has determined that boys should not do certain activities and girls should not do certain activities due to their sex. That is all it is.

    Sex-- Sex is the DNA that you were not only born with, but conceived with. It is the basis of your humanity. It is part of being a human, heck... even just a mammal.

    Here is where we have problems.... Shooting/hunting/killing animals is "boy" gender (as determined by society). Cooking and sewing is determined to be "girl" gender. Gender is a very fluid concept. Perfectly normal boys are cooking and sewing. They grow up, paint their nails, belly dance, and wear skirts. Perfectly normal girls are reloading their own ammo, and killing the hell out of animals. Plus they are poking the dead animals' eyes out!

    Here is where we have a problem... People have been confusing gender with sex. They seem to want the genetic boy/man wearing the skirt to comply with their socially constructed view of girls/women. That person may already be very confused about the whole gender/sex thing already, then to have people actually push that person to identify with the opposite sex and convince them that mutilating their perfectly normal bodies to conform with a silly social construct is the right thing to do.

    Throughout history there has been effeminate men and masculine women. This is natural and perfectly normal. Why can't we all come together and accept that?

    I can treat all male children the same at Scout camp, I cannot treat my friends all female offspring as I treat mine, my friends, however, can get right on board when dealing with my sons. Asking me to deal with an 8 y/o that "identifies", whatever that means, as the opposite sex is not my job. Yes, I know, why can't I just treat them like a kid, because they have been turned into mini adults with agendas and the agenda will always be at the forefront instead the kids.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
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