Mattis: Pay Your Fair NATO Share or be Moderated

JermanatorJermanator Senior MemberPosts: 15,045 Senior Member
This has been ongoing for years and years, but I am glad to see the Trump administration kick things up a notch. Out of an alliance where the agreement is that every member contributes 2% of GDP toward their own (and our mutual) defense, only a handful of countries are steeping up to the plate and making their obligations. The result has been US taxpayers essentially subsidizing the security of other nations.

Canada? ??? .99% of GDP? Even the slacker French have you beat at 1.78%. We contribute 3.61% of our GDP and many people in this country are pushing for even more. The UK, Poland, Estonia, and Greece-- thank you very much. We got your back. Germany... 1.2%. What the hell?

Turkey? Stop being turkeys and step up to the plate. Side note from other threads, in a feeble attempt to enlighten the "intellectually challenged" members of our forum (our NATO ally since 1952) Turkey, has a Muslim population of 98%.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-defence-idUSKBN15T31U

Replies

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,423 Senior Member
    3.61% of our GDP equals about 40% of the GDP of our "allies".

    Who really needs allies?

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,045 Senior Member
    Freedom isn't free! (for Americans, but if you live in Europe, it is pretty darn cheap)
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    He didn't sound like a mad dog on the radio. His voice was calm and reasonable.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,575 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    This has been ongoing for years and years, but I am glad to see the Trump administration kick things up a notch. Out of an alliance where the agreement is that every member contributes 2% of GDP toward their own (and our mutual) defense, only a handful of countries are steeping up to the plate and making their obligations. The result has been US taxpayers essentially subsidizing the security of other nations.

    Canada? ??? .99% of GDP? Even the slacker French have you beat at 1.78%. We contribute 3.61% of our GDP and many people in this country are pushing for even more. The UK, Poland, Estonia, and Greece-- thank you very much. We got your back. Germany... 1.2%. What the hell?

    Turkey? Stop being turkeys and step up to the plate. Side note from other threads, in a feeble attempt to enlighten the "intellectually challenged" members of our forum (our NATO ally since 1952) Turkey, has a Muslim population of 98%.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-defence-idUSKBN15T31U
    The 3.6% is no doubt only DoD and doesn't include the rest of our defense costs like the VA, DOE (nuclear warheads), DHS, NASA (defense satilites), various intelligence agencies, etc.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,978 Senior Member
    I remember back in the Good Ole Days of the Cold War when they called an alert in Germany you would hundreds of armored vehicles rolling down the highways into fields, forest wherever and the Krauts would be standing off to the side writing down "Damage" and the US would pay a lot more than it was worth in Maneuver Damages....sure some was done, but paying for dead chicken would not only have to cover the cost of buying another one, but for all the feed and time a **** took to raise it, how many eggs it would have laid an so forth.

    So a little asphalt dug up would most likely be charged for a whole 100 meter stretch..........fair was fair, but it kinda griped my ass we were there to protect them..............funny... the closer to the Fulda Gap we got, the more friendly the Schnitzel Chompers got.

    Things changed when in the 80s they started using HETs/Low Boys (Heavy Equipment Transports) with yellow **** **** lights to move tracked vehicles to areas and usually all you saw were wheeled vehicles
    making contact with the roads.

    This went across the board where the US would pay handsomely for the privilege of protecting them.

    However, it WAS in our interest to keep the Commies at bay and there are some countries around the world who can't afford to spend much on defense and it is worth our time to help them. Many in NATO though have not been paying their fair share and can afford it.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,508 Senior Member
    1. NATO - Needs Americans To Operate

    2. NASA does not control Defense Satellites.

    3. 1951 Greece and Turkey Joined.

    4. There is a good case to be made the NATO was the first escalation of the Cold War and created more of a rift between USSR and the west. It is currently hurting relations with Russia as it expands eastward.

    5. The 98% Muslim Country just went through a Coup attempt because it was not "Muslim enough" for some of its military leaders.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,045 Senior Member
    The 98% Muslim Country just went through a Coup attempt because it was not "Muslim enough" for some of its military leaders.
    There have been a few coups in the past there because the country was deviating away from secularism. At the same time, while not attempting coups, we have people in our own country that have serious issues our country is not "Christian enough".

    Anyway, the point I have been trying to make over several threads is that we are not at war with, nor should we feel threatened by an entire religion. It distracts us away from the (using your own guestimate) 5% of them that are true nutjobs intent on doing us harm. We got better things to do than engage in some jackass's holy war.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,072 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    At the same time, while not attempting coups, we have people in our own country that have serious issues our country is not "Christian enough".

    WORD. And a lot of them are politicians.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,575 Senior Member

    5. The 98% Muslim Country just went through a Coup attempt because it was not "Muslim enough" for some of its military leaders.

    Really? That was why there was a coup in Turkey? Not because their leader is a dangerous megalomaniac intent in declaring himself dictator? Not because he has cracked down free speech and in in the process of trying to grant himself sweeping powers?
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,045 Senior Member
    There are a few different angles on how that coup attempt went down. There are now lots of people in Turkish prisons because of it. Regardless, we have been allies for 65 years through all kinds of presidential administrations. We have had and still have a buttload of nukes there. The Turkish population is 98% Muslim. We have issues with radical Islam, not Islam in general.
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,508 Senior Member
    Really? That was why there was a coup in Turkey? Not because their leader is a dangerous megalomaniac intent in declaring himself dictator? Not because he has cracked down free speech and in in the process of trying to grant himself sweeping powers?

    Nope, it was because he was not Muslim enough....Believe it or not, your choice.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,508 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    There are a few different angles on how that coup attempt went down. There are now lots of people in Turkish prisons because of it. Regardless, we have been allies for 65 years through all kinds of presidential administrations. We have had and still have a buttload of nukes there. The Turkish population is 98% Muslim. We have issues with radical Islam, not Islam in general.[/QUOTE

    I don't know how Turkey really entered this discussion....
    Johnson also stayed the course in Vietnam because Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy pledged support to south Vietnam. So being allies for a long time is not always a good measure of reasoning. We have been looking for other alternatives to Turkey for a while now and have looked the other way several times after they have attempted ethnic cleansing on their Kurdish population. One of the reasons Turkey did not grant us permission to use their land as a launching point in 03 was because we told them there would be no Kurdish killing, period. They didn't like that.

    I do think we are in Violent Agreement. The issue is Radical Islam, not Islam.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,045 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    .........Anyway, the point I have been trying to make over several threads is that we are not at war with, nor should we feel threatened by an entire religion. It distracts us away from the (using your own guestimate) 5% of them that are true nutjobs intent on doing us harm. We got better things to do than engage in some jackass's holy war.

    If my calculations are right, 1.5 Billion Muslims and 5% of them are true nut jobs, then we have 75 million of these crazy bastards out to kill us. That is 1/4 of our entire population, and a significant reason to be worried.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,045 Senior Member
    If my calculations are right, 1.5 Billion Muslims and 5% of them are true nut jobs, then we have 75 million of these crazy bastards out to kill us. That is 1/4 of our entire population, and a significant reason to be worried.
    So let us focus on them as opposed to the whole 1.5 billion.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,045 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    So let us focus on them as opposed to the whole 1.5 billion.

    I think that is what Trump has in mind, but we need a different approach to these people than what we have been doing for years.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,045 Senior Member
    Which I am completely cool with. Some people got it in their heads that we are at war with the entire religion. Maybe they are, but I sure as hell ain't and our country isn't either, no matter what ideas they project onto Trump.
  • stetsonstetson Member Posts: 42 Member
    Nato isn't in our best interest.Time to leave and press what;'s important to us .Keeping sea lanes open.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,802 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    He didn't sound like a mad dog on the radio. His voice was calm and reasonable.

    Yeah, there was this guy named Roosevelt back around the turn of the 19th-20th Centuries who spoke softly but carried a BIG STICK! Which was a very effective policy. I think Mad Dog was awake in history class.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.