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Trump is turning on the true conservatives, as I feared

bisleybisley Senior MemberPosts: 10,813 Senior Member
So far, I have been pretty happy with what President Trump is trying to accomplish. But, he's in his first tough fight, now, and is starting to buckle to the establishment he ran against. He has accused the Freedom Caucus of playing ball with Pelosi and Schumer because they won't cave in and vote for Obamacare Lite.

Louis Gohmert, on Fox News this morning, said that during negotiations they had actually come to agreement with Trump twice, before Reince Priebus and Paul Ryan pulled the rug out from under it, claiming that parliamentary rule violations prevented it. Gohmert contends that this is not true, and that the parliamentarian of the House agrees with him that no such problem exists. I don't know why Fox doesn't get Ryan and Gohmert head-to-head and ask this question to get a definitive answer. You may recall that Gohmert was the guy who John Boehner complained about for his entire tenure, because he wouldn't go along with his cave-ins to the Democrats.

Louis Gohmert is my representative, and he has been solid as a rock on conservative principals and Constitutional issues. Between him and Trump, I'll bet on Gohmert for reliability and honesty, every time.
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Replies

  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    Yea, no one saw that coming.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Sometimes you have to fill the swamp before you drain it. Just give him a chance. This is part of a very choreographed plan. You just can't see it.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Oh, yeah. I keep forgetting that. He's so smart.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    It is brilliance at work. This is going to be great!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Seems the "true conservatives" want to play politics as usual, for example, lets have some committees study this and kick it into next year.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    Seems the "true conservatives" want to play politics as usual, for example, lets have some committees study this and kick it into next year.

    There's another side to this. Some of your true conservatives my be playing the old game. Trump is no politician, a point that has been admitted by about everybody, and I don't buy into him being a libtard. My belief is he wants to get Obama Care off the books with whatever he can get to replace it. Then, tweek it into a good bill.

    Too many conservatives are buying into the same old crap that keeps us from passing legislation that will get us out of Obama Care and getting rid of the IRS.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,534 Senior Member
    So while he has made General Mathis the Sec Def, he has made no moves to actually strengthen he quality or depth Of the force... oh and he has escalated the fight in Iraq and Syria.

    While everyone is looking at the flair and turmoil, Trump is potentially doing damage. I am not a Green Party guy by any stretch, but his moves have me worried.

    His choice for sec state was about the worst possible, and it will show here very soon.

    He has made a bunch of knee jerk reactions and introduced over 2000 bills into congress.

    America hasn't realized yet, but we made the choice between he devil we know and the devil we didn't. We chose the one we didn't.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,989 Senior Member
    Sometimes you have to fill the swamp before you drain it. Just give him a chance. This is part of a very choreographed plan. You just can't see it.
    Yep, fill it with water alligators and snakes. Pretty soon it'll be HUUUGE
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,989 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Too many conservatives are buying into the same old crap that keeps us from passing legislation that will get us out of Obama Care and getting rid of the IRS.
    Time out, flag on the play.

    This whitewash of Obama care was what he backed. It was his baby with his DNA all over it. It was crap, the same old progressive leftist crap that we have been seeing. You were the one who was going to hold his feet to the fire, I recommend a Zippo and plane ticket. My legicritter went along with this mess and he already got a letter from me, you send one to Trump yet?

    He still has a chance, but being cautiously optimistic is becoming cautious.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    You were the one who was going to hold his feet to the fire, I recommend a Zippo and plane ticket.
    yep. That was predictable also.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    There's larger problems happening here than leadership of the head executive. Our legislative process has been hijacked by amounts of money that exceed comprehension due to things like citizens united. One of the consequences is a quagmire of rhetorical narrative without substance.

    A mass of people assume that a President that says what we want to hear will lead the country in the right direction. This same mass fails to comprehend our own irrelevance as a meaningful constituency.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Time out, flag on the play.

    This whitewash of Obama care was what he backed. It was his baby with his DNA all over it. It was crap, the same old progressive leftist crap that we have been seeing. You were the one who was going to hold his feet to the fire, I recommend a Zippo and plane ticket. My legicritter went along with this mess and he already got a letter from me, you send one to Trump yet?

    He still has a chance, but being cautiously optimistic is becoming cautious.

    Opinions are what makes this place thrive. That's yours. Mine is that Trump and others want to do something to get the process started. Then tweak it until he gets it right. Some have said the tweaks would never happen. I don't buy that seeing what Trump has been doing.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Chucky Schumer said we should resist anything Trump tries to do. So in 2018 he will blame Trump for not doing anything and the liberals will win back control of Congress.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    I haven't given up on Trump, yet. He can still do some major good by keeping some of his other promises - border control, tax cuts, balancing the trade deficit, increasing small business opportunities, etc. But, he is missing the boat on Obamacare repeal. If he has the guts to do a straight repeal, and then replace it with individual bills that protect the poorest of the poor, he can keep the Republicans working together with him. But, to do that, he has to take major hits from the opposition who will portray it as killing poor people. They can get away with that for a year, before the benefits can be seen by the public.

    Trump needs to forget getting huge, 'comprehensive' bills passed that solve all the problems in one fell swoop. They produce nothing but abominations like Obamacare, because too many have to be taken care of, and they are too easy to attack. The changes have to be incremental, but they can be done quickly, one after another, without having to bet the ranch on any single one of them. The different factions will deal with him, if he keeps the bills specific and doesn't allow them to be bogged down with add-on crap.
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,534 Senior Member
    Look at his Cabinet, that tells you everything you need to know.

    I was initially glad he didn't go with career politicians, but when his picks turned out to be nothing more than business cronies....just another method of nepotism.

    I will tell ya something though. While the man has no bones about lying, and portrays himself as a social media idiot, he is smart and has a plan. I just don't know what it is.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,989 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Opinions are what makes this place thrive. That's yours. Mine is that Trump and others want to do something to get the process started. Then tweak it until he gets it right. Some have said the tweaks would never happen. I don't buy that seeing what Trump has been doing.

    The fact that he backed Obamacare part Deaux is not a opinion. The fact that he went after (real) conservatives who stood up for their constituents is not a opinion. The fact that he got elected on repealing Obamacare on day 1 and gave us a "my way or the highway" option to take that is the the same plan as Obamacare except that it scored worse in cost over time as the current system is NOT a opinion. What he did "tweak" out, Planned Parenthood, was REINSTATED in the next year.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,912 Senior Member
    It was the GOP leadership that put up this trash-worthy bill. I don't understand why it's Trumps' fault all of a sudden. Personally, I think that rat-snake Ryan has been feeding Trump a Bullshirt story.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    It was the GOP leadership that put up this trash-worthy bill. I don't understand why it's Trumps' fault all of a sudden. Personally, I think that rat-snake Ryan has been feeding Trump a Bullshirt story.

    It's not Trump's fault until he signs it, but when he starts trashing conservatives with solid, consistent voting records, for not caving in to a bad plan, he starts looking like a child throwing a temper tantrum. I am thrilled by the idea that he is trying scratch one of his promises off, as done, but if the bill he embraces is not a good one, he gains nothing and the people who voted for him get hurt.

    He's talking to Rand Paul now, so maybe Rand Paul will make Trump understand that if he will break the original plan down and do the repeal first, he can still win. If that happens, he can keep his promise and the conservatives can keep their promises. Then the so-called moderate Republicans that Ryan controls can start passing good, smaller bills to satisfy the Obamacare parts that they think are worth keeping. I think the conservatives will compromise on some of that, if they have already gotten rid of the mandates and the other unconstitutional crap.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    It was the GOP leadership that put up this trash-worthy bill.
    Just like the Democratic leadership put up the Affordable Care Act. Its nickname? Obamacare.

    Put it this way, if a President Hillary Clinton had advocated the exact same legislation, I would have been disgusted with it too. The legislation was crap, plain and simple and no, it isn't Trump's fault. Trump's fault is that he strongly supports such a turd to the extent that he has gone on to bully Freedom Caucus members for not supporting it. Telling us all how wonderful that crap sandwich is going to taste isn't the same thing as working on behalf of the people.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,989 Senior Member
    It was the GOP leadership that put up this trash-worthy bill. I don't understand why it's Trumps' fault all of a sudden. Personally, I think that rat-snake Ryan has been feeding Trump a Bullshirt story.

    Because he was and is backing it up to and including telling persons in his own party that voted against this mess that he would make sure they are primaried. He may not have wrote it (as its not the duty of the pres) but he backs it 100%
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Just like the Democratic leadership put up the Affordable Care Act. Its nickname? Obamacare.

    Put it this way, if a President Hillary Clinton had advocated the exact same legislation, I would have been disgusted with it too. The legislation was crap, plain and simple and no, it isn't Trump's fault. Trump's fault is that he strongly supports such a turd to the extent that he has gone on to bully Freedom Caucus members for not supporting it. Telling us all how wonderful that crap sandwich is going to taste isn't the same thing as working on behalf of the people.


    Of course it is. You would know that if you would just let them pass the bill, so we could see what was in it.

    Holding feet to fires is hard. I think we should just trust Trump! Down with the libtard horde!
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »

    Holding feet to fires is hard.
    Only if you do it. I have yet to see a single one of those that said they would, do it. Not even the ones that said they would be the first. Just more excuses and blaming anyone but the Cheeto Jesus. Trump may not have written the bill, but he put his whole support, and the power of the Presidentcy behind getting it passed. Then to threaten those that stood against it is reprehensible.

    Color me surprised.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,912 Senior Member
    Because he was and is backing it up to and including telling persons in his own party that voted against this mess that he would make sure they are primaried. He may not have wrote it (as its not the duty of the pres) but he backs it 100%

    Yeah, I disagree with him on that. The wife and I who are Trump supporters couldn't understand why he was pushing for this dog-pile of a bill, and I'm a bit pissed off that he was criticizing the Freedom Caucus for not supporting it. We like Trump, but we're not blind. We will see what happens next.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Since draining the swamp seems to be not going so well, I suggest we nuke D.C. from orbit; it's the only way to be sure.

    Video clip language warning!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyyoaBa7DaE
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    As president, he could have set the agenda and outlined a good conservative solution by laying out what the legislation should have and not have, then threaten to veto anything that wasn't up to his high standard. He could have shown true leadership and used the power of his position to make changes for the better. I am honestly puzzled why it didn't happen that way.

    I mean, I figured he was full of crap when he said during the campaign that he had a plan to fix health insurance. I just didn't realize that he really, really didn't have a plan to fix health insurance. If he had, it would have been part of that legislation, and it wasn't. He did good with his SCOTUS pick. I hope he does better with tax and immigration reform than he did with health insurance. I am also glad that he met/golfed with Rand Paul the other day-- hopefully he learned something from Dr. Paul, who was a fierce opponent of that health insurance legislation.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,912 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Since draining the swamp seems to be not going so well, I suggest we nuke D.C. from orbit; it's the only way to be sure.

    Video clip language warning!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyyoaBa7DaE

    F'N'AY
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I am also glad that he met/golfed with Rand Paul the other day-- hopefully he learned something from Dr. Paul
    One of those things that makes you wonder, why the hell didn't he do that in the first place.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    I seem to recall that he did meet with Paul at the very beginning, as this whole "Obamacare Lite" was getting started. Even if that would have passed the House-- Lee, Cruz, and Paul would have stopped it cold in the Senate. I am not sure why anyone would have expected that to sail through.

    I am seriously puzzled.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I seem to recall that he did meet with Paul at the very beginning, as this whole "Obamacare Lite" was getting started. Even if that would have passed the House-- Lee, Cruz, and Paul would have stopped it cold in the Senate. I am not sure why anyone would have expected that to sail through.

    I am seriously puzzled.

    Jerm, I got a feeling you have been listening to the news about all the major insurers pulling out of the ACA due to billion dollar losses last year. And a huge and growing number of doctors that refuse to see Medicaid patients due to the paperwork requirements and low payment for services. Lots of people are finding themselves either insured with deductibles so high they can't afford to use their insurance, or are on Medicaid and can't get an appointment with a doctor.

    I'm thinking that Trump let this stinker of a bill get air time and squashed like a bug, and for a couple of reasons. The ACA is about to implode under its own weight and leave people with something they can neither use nor afford. With the implosion on the horizon it MAY force both sides of the aisle to stop acting like a bunch of three year old crybaby brats that can't play together to finally get their 'stuff' together, put aside partisan bickering, and actually come up with something that will work. Midterms are coming up, and if a bunch of newly uninsured voters are righteously pissed off at their representatives there may be some 'term limits' imposed on the incumbents. Either way, Trump wins with, "I tried, but Congress can't work together."
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
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