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Trump is turning on the true conservatives, as I feared

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Replies

  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    I guess I missed any previous meeting about Obumpcare. I guess he didn't care what Paul and other conservatives had to say. I am not puzzled. He has done some good things, and the Scotus issue we will know about down the road, but on the major promises/pandering he is right where I thought he would be. Say whatever they want to hear so they vote for you.

    I still hope to eat crow, but.......
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Tennmike-- I have strong doubts that he is the great strategist you think he is. Maybe it is me, but I am just not seeing it. Maybe I take too much at face value.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    The biggest population boom to ever hit the globe is reaching the zenith of octogenarian achievement.

    This DC mud storm is all about pie division.
    Don't be holding your breath with a clean fork in your hand.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Tennmike-- I have strong doubts that he is the great strategist you think he is. Maybe it is me, but I am just not seeing it. Maybe I take too much at face value.

    Doesn't take much 'strategery' as GWB would say to figure out before taking office in Jan. that the Dems would fight him from day one. I mean, ****, even Ray Charles could see that mess coming. He may be fooling me, and it wouldn't be the first time, but I think he's smart enough to let them have more than enough rope to hang themselves. And the more rope given, the nastier the stop is when the rope goes tight.

    I STILL think nuking D.C. from orbit is the optimal solution, though. :tooth:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    No one has voted on any health bill yet, they are still doing what politicians do best, talking.

    It took Obama a year to get Obamacare passed. It was passed on March 23, 2010.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Surely there are at least 535 lamp posts in Washington, and I'm sure citizens from the flyover states could be counted on to donate enough rope to keep the crows and buzzards well-fed for quite a while! Some of those folks were Boy Scouts before it became an activist organization, and they probably learned to tie an effective slipknot. That neck-breaking hangman's noose is far too humane!
    Jerry
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    It was the GOP leadership that put up this trash-worthy bill. I don't understand why it's Trumps' fault all of a sudden. Personally, I think that rat-snake Ryan has been feeding Trump a Bullshirt story.

    You mean the big, giant brain was played by a hick from Janesville Wisconsin? Yeah, all the problems of the Republican party land at the evil Paul Ryan's feet. :roll:

    The bill has failed because people started paying attention to what the 'Good guys' were doing and realized that what was proposed is damned near as bad (and worse in some respects) as what it was meant to replace. The fact that any of these donkey holes was supporting this says everything we should need to know about them. The fact that 'conservatives' are lamenting this failure says even more.

    Unfortunately for the GOP, this leaves them with no attractive options, with the best case scenario (possibly) being to step back, shrug and say "Hey, we tried" and wait for the whole stinking mess collapse on itself. The problem with that is Trump ran on fixing what was broke, not on waiting for it to fall apart completely so that ANYTHING will seem acceptable in perspectlve. Add to that the fact that - right or wrong - Trump now owns the problem. Whatever happens from here will be viewed as his issue, not Barry O's.

    For one, I would not be surprised (well, not very surprised anyway) to see the ultimate deal maker team up with dems and liberal repubs to push single payer as 'the only workable choice'. He's supported it in the past.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    No one has voted on any bill yet, so soon to condemn. It took Obama a year to get his health bill passed.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    No one has voted on any bill yet, so soon to condemn. It took Obama a year to get his health bill passed.

    I should probably just give it a chance, huh?

    Where have I heard that before? :roll:

    I'll say this: I'm moderately happy with the selection for SCOTUS, so this isn't a complete crap sandwich. You can point to this and say "It's just one thing, calm down"... but this was kind of a big one, no? Between POTUS and the other 'conservatives' in D.C., they've had 7 years to noodle on this... so, no, I'm not quick to condemn. My condemnation has been seven years coming.

    The original post of this thread was about the repubs, conservatives and other 'Good guys' in D.C. pulling the same crap that the past regime did and was followed up by saying how Trumpologists would explain and justify these actions.

    So far, I'd say this is spot on.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    I thought jobs was the "big thing", but you don't have to give it a chance, you don't have to do anything except complain. Schumer is complaining also.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    Schumer complaining is to be expected, along with Feinstein, Pelosi, Reid, et al. He couldn't make them happy if he gave them everything they wanted, wrapped with a little red bow.

    I'm supposed to be one of The Donald's target demographics.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    I thought jobs was the "big thing", but you don't have to give it a chance, you don't have to do anything except complain. Schumer is complaining also.

    Does your mom still cut the crust off of you pbj for you?
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    That's all Republicans have had to do for the past 8 years. Now they have to lead, which is significantly more challenging. So far I'm unimpressed, but maybe they'll eventually surprise me.

    It goes without saying that you will back the Democrats on everything, and I agree that this administrations accomplishments, legislatively are few to none, so far. But, it's been two months, and they still have things to learn. The good thing is that they are working, something that Obama almost never did (thank goodness), and Bill Clinton rarely did. 90% of the work they did do was campaign related.

    So, the result of all of Trump's meetings with business people and world leaders is fairly significant. The stock market has responded positively to what they think will get done, major corporations are pledging to try to keep more jobs onshore, and the flood of illegal immigrants has dropped by roughly 50%, based on nothing but what Trump intends to do. Consumer confidence is high, and the belief that the draconian regulations will be eased has small business buzzing around getting ready to do something when things actually do happen.

    The people in this country who actually produce are optimistic - it's only the non-producing consumers who are fretting. If the Republicans in Congress actually do manage to pass an Obamacare repeal, which looks somewhat likely, they will move quickly to the budget and tax cuts. That's when all of the wait-and-see business people will jump in with both feet, and job opportunities will soar.

    I got over my disappointment with Trump very slowly after he knocked Ted Cruz out. It took awhile, and I'm still very wary of him. But, he works hard, and he's trying to keep his campaign promises, and that goes a long ways toward getting some slack from me. If he manages to survive for 4 years, I believe the country will come out of the socialist tailspin we've been in, and may actually be able to survive another Democrat, if we should be so foolish as to elect another one. I may never like the guy, but I don't rate leaders based on emotional ups and downs. If he does the job that needs doing, I'll roll with him.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,045 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    The people in this country who actually produce are optimistic - it's only the non-producing consumers who are fretting.

    WORD.

    Its all in Ayn Rand!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Regarding some of Trump's 'accomplishments' that seem to have either flown under the radar of all y'all, or went completely over your heads is the Executive Orders he's signed that negate/roll back/eliminate a lot of those Obama EOs. Like the Dakota Access Pipeline, putting an end to the 'war on coal', and putting someone in charge of the EPA that isn't a greenie slimy tree hugging weenie hell bent on making war on farmers and declaring any and all mud puddles 'navigable waters of the U.S., among others. And rolling back the red tape regulations that make doing anything financially impossible.

    Health care impasse? I still say let the Affordable Care Act implode under its own weight of they can't work together in Congress to fix that fornicating can of worms either by repel and replace, or come up with something new that will actually work. The problem Trump faces is that he's used to dealing with adults; Congress is a bunch of snotty nosed three year olds pitching a fit because they not only missed nappy time, but also are a bunch of spoiled little brats that need their backsides fanned with a good heavy switch and told to play nice, "OR ELSE!"
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    Troll

    That is funny.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Regarding some of Trump's 'accomplishments' that seem to have either flown under the radar of all y'all, or went completely over your heads is the Executive Orders he's signed that negate/roll back/eliminate a lot of those Obama EOs. Like the Dakota Access Pipeline, putting an end to the 'war on coal', and putting someone in charge of the EPA that isn't a greenie slimy tree hugging weenie hell bent on making war on farmers and declaring any and all mud puddles 'navigable waters of the U.S., among others. And rolling back the red tape regulations that make doing anything financially impossible.

    I'm am not a Trump supporter, but these EO's/appointments have made me smile.

    Just watching the Left shriek about "the Attorney General for Exxon" heading the EPA is worth the price of admission.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    I'm entertained by the criers and whiners when Trump doesn't meet their expectations.

    If you put your faith in the prosperity or poverty of a nation's might into one man, you deserve whatever result you get.

    Conservatives are becoming so focused on the presidency that Congress seems all but forgotten at times. So much for branches of government.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    I'm entertained by the criers and whiners when Trump doesn't meet their expectations.

    If you put your faith in the prosperity or poverty of a nation's might into one man, you deserve whatever result you get.

    Conservatives are becoming so focused on the presidency that Congress seems all but forgotten at times. So much for branches of government.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    There were plenty of criers and a few whiners here when Barry was running the show. My 'whining' about the way things are being done doesn't mean I don't agree with some of those things. As tennmike pointed out, he has overturned a number of Barry's EOs, and that is a good thing. OTOH, he's overturned them with EOs of his own... something I am not happy about.

    I also find entertainment in this comedy that we're currently participating in. I thoroughly enjoy liberals losing their minds every time Trump opens his mouth. Few things are more enjoyable. I also enjoy folks here defending every last thing The Donald does simply because he's not Hillary and opining that "we should just give him a chance".... just like we did with his predecessor, I suppose.

    Oh, wait....:silly::blah:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Define "true" conservatives... I can tell you I'm NOT one of them, though I spouse MOST of the principles they pontificate about (ad nauseam) for the most part I also believe that many sacred cows of the Republican party are nothing but pandering to a hard right segment saddled with draconian notions on how to live your life and I resent them as much as I resent the snowflakes that assume I have to take on their ridiculous ideals and lifestyle or else... they'll throw a tantrum and cry profusely.

    The fact is that the far right is as troublesome to me as the far left and only exists because we have been educated by politicians, the media and to some extent history to irrationally fear the "slippery slope" to the point that compromise is not feasible at all anymore. A President has to represent the needs of 330,000,000 Americans and doing things to please perhaps 5% or less of the total population is never the right thing to do for the good of the most.

    Hopefully Trump is smart enough to ignore the fringes and use common sense to try to unify the center and show them that there IS a path to meaningful compromise and actions to benefit our country as a whole. That means that ALL Americans will have to suck it up a little and understand that the only ones that get everything they want are the simpletons that don't want much...

    Well said. Pretty much sums up my feelings as well.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    I guess I missed any previous meeting about Obumpcare. I guess he didn't care what Paul and other conservatives had to say. I am not puzzled. He has done some good things, and the Scotus issue we will know about down the road, but on the major promises/pandering he is right where I thought he would be. Say whatever they want to hear so they vote for you.

    I still hope to eat crow, but.......
    Like every candidate whether running for Dog Catcher or POTUS.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    "True conservatives" is just the label I used to describe those represented by the Freedom Caucus, The Tea Party, or any other gathering of people who want a small government that leaves great latitude for state sovereignty, the Constitution protected, the budget balanced, the borders controlled, and do not believe in cradle to grave control of their lives by inefficient government bureaucracies.

    These are views that were considered mainstream, before the lefties of both parties got together and redefined conservatism as the hard right. Basically, it is the polar opposite of liberalism, and to the right of the milquetoast moderates. As for the conservatives who opposed the Trump-Ryan rewrite of Obamacare, they are quite simply the representatives who campaigned on repealing Obamacare, and have never supported government mandated healthcare, and are honest enough to admit that forcing insurance companies to accept a pre-existing conditions mandate will drive the price up too much.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,045 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Define "true" conservatives... I can tell you I'm NOT one of them, though I spouse MOST of the principles they pontificate about (ad nauseam) for the most part I also believe that many sacred cows of the Republican party are nothing but pandering to a hard right segment saddled with draconian notions on how to live your life and I resent them as much as I resent the snowflakes that assume I have to take on their ridiculous ideals and lifestyle or else... they'll throw a tantrum and cry profusely.

    The fact is that the far right is as troublesome to me as the far left and only exists because we have been educated by politicians, the media and to some extent history to irrationally fear the "slippery slope" to the point that compromise is not feasible at all anymore. A President has to represent the needs of 330,000,000 Americans and doing things to please perhaps 5% or less of the total population is never the right thing to do for the good of the most.

    Hopefully Trump is smart enough to ignore the fringes and use common sense to try to unify the center and show them that there IS a path to meaningful compromise and actions to benefit our country as a whole. That means that ALL Americans will have to suck it up a little and understand that the only ones that get everything they want are the simpletons that don't want much...

    WORD :that::agree:

    Well said!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    bisley wrote: »
    "True conservatives" is just the label I used to describe those represented by the Freedom Caucus, The Tea Party, or any other gathering of people who want a small government that leaves great latitude for state sovereignty, the Constitution protected, the budget balanced, the borders controlled, and do not believe in cradle to grave control of their lives by inefficient government bureaucracies.

    These are views that were considered mainstream, before the lefties of both parties got together and redefined conservatism as the hard right. Basically, it is the polar opposite of liberalism, and to the right of the milquetoast moderates. As for the conservatives who opposed the Trump-Ryan rewrite of Obamacare, they are quite simply the representatives who campaigned on repealing Obamacare, and have never supported government mandated healthcare, and are honest enough to admit that forcing insurance companies to accept a pre-existing conditions mandate will drive the price up too much.

    You make some good arguments. In my personal opinion I tend to think that there is just too much valid mistrust for those in government, regardless of political affiliation. The democrats as a whole want to abolish our 2nd while the republicans as a whole want to abolish our 4th. Both want to abolish the 1st it seems - to me anyway.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    You were bitten in the ass by a loving relative that is gay?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,045 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    You have outlined all the things I believe in. But I will add that the definition of true conservatives also includes strict definitions of marriage, a creepy infatuation with the sex of a bathroom user, a very strong opinion on abortions controlled by the government and a slew of other meaningless agenda items that smell STRONGLY of government control over my life.

    :that::agree:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,617 Senior Member
    The problem with conservatives is they insist on orthodoxy and are not willing to compromise. I'm a moderate conservative, all for small government but don't think the government should define marriage or other personal issues. I'm against same-sex bathrooms and against government-funded abortion. OTOH, if a couple of guys want to get married, who the hell cares? I'm against the government mandating stupid things, like PC changing the name of the Washington Redskins because it's "insensitive." I'm against the hard Left influence on college campuses, but I doubt a hard-right influence would be any better.

    Negotiation is the tool for government in a Republic. We had enough of the constant dictator making decisions and enforcing bad decisions in the past eight years. He refused to negotiate, felt his was the final word.

    So long as we're a Republic and not a one-man show, we've always got to compromise...either that or lose everything. Most Americans are not right-wingers, or left-wingers. They're right-of-center, not hardliners.

    Bottom line is a True Conservative can't win the presidency. Neither can the Hard Left; seen by the failure of Bernie Sanders. If orthodoxy is more important than winning offices, go for it.

    Half a pie is better than NO pie.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Obviously, a 'true conservative' is something different to everybody, and everybody seems to have been influenced by the media's decades old efforts to discredit them.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,045 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I agree with that too. But regardless, taking a hardline on an end of the spectrum, left or right, is not a recipe for change or progress. It's just a way of alienating the majority of the population which lives in the middle. And THOSE are the ones that really decide the direction of the country.

    Very true that - and you're completely correct: The vast majority *is* "in the middle" somewhere.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
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