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Trump is turning on the true conservatives, as I feared

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  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    Fortunately, we still have enough state sovereignty left to allow people to live the way they want. The more 'moderate' we get, the more "it takes a village" crap we have to swallow.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,996 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    You have outlined all the things I believe in. But I will add that the definition of true conservatives also includes strict definitions of marriage,
    Nope. It is THE definition of marriage, the one that worked for thousands of years that others decided they wanted to change because they were different. Celebrate diversity and all that , except when that means you are left out, then force your opinion on everyone else. No different than if you decide to call your dog a cat then force everyone else to call dogs cats.
    a creepy infatuation with the sex of a bathroom user,
    What? the creepy fascination is by the people who cant use the plumbing in accordance with their plumbing. Who exactly gave a hoot since bathrooms were invented if a dude went into the dudes bathroom and stood next to a dude. Even if the dude looked like a lady, it was a interesting anecdote, but that was it. UNTIL (again, look for a pattern) A small minority FELT DIFFERENT and they decided to celebrate diversity by making everyone conform to their wishes.
    a very strong opinion on abortions controlled by the government
    Wrong. The fight has been that people dont want to pay for killing other people for whatever reason. Some people think that it should be illegal, however that really isnt the argument and hasnet been for decades. There is no reason to force a person to pay anothers choice to kill someone if their religion or moral code says they shouldnt. Of do you thing that we should force contentious objectors to the front of the battle line at the point of a bayonet? You have no right to my wealth because you made a choice.
    and a slew of other meaningless agenda items that smell STRONGLY of government control over my life.
    Yet ever one of the things you posted are govt backed control over someones life, interesting.
    As far as Obamacare is concerned, it IS a disaster but after having a wife go through cancer treatments and understanding that if an insurance company is not MANDATED to insure us (even though she is now cancer free), and understanding that a recurrence would be financially runnable to us if she is not covered, I'm all for at least THAT provision sticking around.
    Or any other that is personally good for you
    Some define a conservative as a liberal who's been mugged. I define a moderate as a conservative that has been bitten in the ass with a chronic illness or has a close loving relative/friend who is gay...
    And again, you are wrong. There are conservatives, well, constitutionalists, that accept their responsibilities and deal with them without asking others to take care of them and are able to deal with "diversity" yet not be bending over forwards to the whims of those who want to be different, until they feel different.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,912 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Obviously, a 'true conservative' is something different to everybody, and everybody seems to have been influenced by the media's decades old efforts to discredit them.

    Yeah, the leftists refer to conservatives as fascists, but anyone who knows anything about the left and the right knows that fascism is born out of the left and not the right. There are very few differences between Nazi's and Communists, and the ones that are different are generally in the area of economics and how the State treats it. Both are totalitarian in nature, regardless of how they run their economies.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    I don't think fascism comes out of the left. I don't know of any examples of it doing so. You can call fascism that which is communism, but while they generally share the common core of intolerance, they're quite different economically. There is more than one definition for intolerance.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,035 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    There is more than one definition for intolerance.

    Yep - there are at least two: Far Left, and Far Right.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    You are ABSOLUTELY no different in your attitude than the LIBERAL snowflakes that ALSO tell me everything I believe is wrong. A one perspective life is a great thing. Enjoy it.

    You're Wrong I tell ya, wrong, wrong, wrong! :jester:
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,912 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I don't think fascism comes out of the left. I don't know of any examples of it doing so. You can call fascism that which is communism, but while they generally share the common core of intolerance, they're quite different economically. There is more than one definition for intolerance.

    http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism

    I don't see much difference between these two models of government. As far as I can tell, the only characteristic shared by fascists and the "right" is a certain level of nationalism. Both are brutal, both are totalitarian, which make them the same in my book. Fascists do not have any similarities to American conservatism (the right) in my opinion. There is a big difference between the American right and the European right.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    http://www.diffen.com/difference/Communism_vs_Fascism

    I don't see much difference between these two models of government. As far as I can tell, the only characteristic shared by fascists and the "right" is a certain level of nationalism. Both are brutal, both are totalitarian, which make them the same in my book. Fascists do not have any similarities to American conservatism (the right) in my opinion. There is a big difference between the American right and the European right.

    Spot on.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Spot on.

    Exactly, but I do see a correlation between the far left and the Commies.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    Anybody that disagrees with me is a single-minded, fascist commie libtard... and a bunch of other adjectives that I have little understanding of.

    Better toe the line fellas, or we'll be sent to the Gulag.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,996 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    You are ABSOLUTELY no different in your attitude than the LIBERAL snowflakes that ALSO tell me everything I believe is wrong. A one perspective life is a great thing. Enjoy it.
    I just go with my real world experience not speaking out my rear telling other what it is that they must think because my opinion differs gleaning knowledge from what I want to be true. You can have a opinion, you dont get your own set of facts.

    Bathrooms worked pretty well for at least one or two years worldwide using a simple definable set of rules. Innies go in one room, outies go in another, biology man, until conservatives drove out the oddballs. Wait, nope, that doenst sound quite right. Oh yeah, oddballs who want to "celebrate diversity" and be unique, decided that EVERYONE MUST change so that they are now included because they were uncomfortably unique so all must accept them, yet making the vast majority uncomfortable is OK because they get their way.

    But wait, all of those evil conservatives will just have to lump it because you have a opinion... Not so much
    http://drrichswier.com/2017/04/15/target-ceo-admits-transgender-bathroom-policy-a-huge-mistake/
    very damaging article just out from the Wall Street Journal clearly shows that Target CEO Brian Cornell regrets his company’s policy announcement welcoming men to use women’s restrooms and dressing rooms.

    According to the article, Mr. Cornell expressed frustration about how the bathroom policy was publicized without his permission or knowledge, and told colleagues he wouldn’t have approved the decision to flaunt it with a public statement that is still on Target’s website today.

    “Target didn’t adequately assess the risk, and the ensuing backlash [AFA boycott] was self-inflicted,” he told staff.
    Target tells everyone how they MUST think and behave, and they drop 6% and 20M on single seat bathrooms because most people have brains and know that this is a bad idea that WILL affect their lives.
    Saying that Target attempted to force social engineering on their customers is what happened, IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION. As a interesting aside, the CEO isnt upset that they have the policy, he is upset that people found out about it. Why would that be? Because it is a asinine idea maybe and sane people might just go down a block to WalMart?

    Chick Filet says it doesnt like homosexuals and backs what they think is the proper form of marriage, they DO NOT FORCE their opinion on anyone yet they do support causes that believe like they do. They get boycotted and they were up 14% because you can still be treated equally there, just equally, not like a special flower.

    Bolded is the operative difference between conservatives and liberals. There is a lot more overlap in the words tolerate and acceptance these days than should be, at least until the progressives change the language over those two words also. Conservative constitutonalists like me dont give a rip about what you do. Up until your proclivity starts affecting us or you tell me I MUST accept whatever stupid and or dangerous idea that you dream up. Your rights end where mine begin, period.
    :hug:
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    It depends on what Fascist you're talking about and what aspects of fascism you're talking about. Yes when people say those on the right are fascist, that is often code for Hitler and I agree not a good analogy. However many in the tenants or at least actions of Republican politicians aren't too far removed from Italian Fascist Corporatism or shades of Portugal's Authoritarian Catholic Corporatism under Salazar.

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    Corporatism or Corporativism is generally the grouping of economic structures by type (loosely speaking) according to interests within those sectors. Fascism doesn't have to precede the term Corporatism. It's present in many socioeconomic structures--capitalism also being one. Even the left structures like this, but do it a lot more on the social science side of things rather than social economics.

    So I'm not sure how you can lump Republican economic politics into a fascist light when it's really equally applicable to many economic structures.


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    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,912 Senior Member
    .......Similar to conservatives calling Democrats communists.

    Many are socialists and closet commies. The last politician resembling what I would consider a "normal" democrat was JFK. You're not old enough to have seen what the democrat party has become since 1963. Of course, I would characterize FDR and Woodrow Wilson as very similar to modern democrats in that the Progressive model was strong in those two as well.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    It depends on what Fascist you're talking about and what aspects of fascism you're talking about. Yes when people say those on the right are fascist, that is often code for Hitler and I agree not a good analogy. However many in the tenants or at least actions of Republican politicians aren't too far removed from Italian Fascist Corporatism or shades of Portugal's Authoritarian Catholic Corporatism under Salazar.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

    It isn't a good analogy because it is a fornicating LIE! NAZI ----National SOCIALIST German Workers Party. Mussolini was a fascist to a great degree. But the German Nazis were decidedly NOT fascist, and Hitler made that VERY clear in his own words. Terminology is important, and when uninformed, ignorant, mouth breathing, drooling imbeciles keep naming things with the wrong label, that only muddies the water. That telling a lie over and over again was something one of Hitler's henchmen, Joseph Goebbels, used to great effect. Here's the quote in its entirety:
    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels

    The Left has been using the gist of that quote for a LONG time to push their agenda and they have ample help from the news media to further it. The so called anti fascist ANTIFA group has gotten so disgusting that the conservatives they've been beating have started to rise up and are finally beating the crap out of the ANTIFA cowards, and of all places, in California! About time!

    And what Varmintmist said, "Up until your proclivity starts affecting us or you tell me I MUST accept whatever stupid and or dangerous idea that you dream up. Your rights end where mine begin, period." I learned that last sentence another way, "Your right to throw a punch ends where my nose begins."

    And someone said that the far right is fascism? Not going to dig that out in this thread, but I will say that that statement that the far right is fascism is wrong. The farthest right wing is called ANARCHY. It bears no resemblance to fascism in any way, shape, or form.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Back when it was possible to unleash a little corporal punishment on those who engaged in slanderous accusations, innuendo, and downright lying, there was less of a temptation to push the envelope of civility. Now the whiny cowards hide behind the belief that they can engage in all sorts of verbal assault with little if any likelihood of paying for their obnoxiousness with a bloody nose or worse. Let's hope that changes- - - - -giving an obnoxious liar a little attitude adjustment can be very satisfying. Back in the USAF, troublemakers got to be the guest of honor at a "blanket party" on occasion.
    Jerry
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Sure if you're talking about the libertarian wing of the right the extreme is anarchy (note there is a left wing version as well), but not many actual libertarian leaning conservative politicians. Many more are much closer to the other, authoritarian extreme...often of the theocratic variety.

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    Nope. You have a wrong concept of far left and far right. Far left is TOTAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL over everything. Far right is NO GOVERNMENT AT ALL, a.k.a. ANARCHY. The only one actually ever put in practice was anarchy, and that was in very ancient times. And as soon as the first alliance was made, pure anarchy died. Total government control has never been put in practice because............people. People will rail against the control and do things way outside that control; they are always there, and are the wrench thrown in the bull gear.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I agree with that too. But regardless, taking a hardline on an end of the spectrum, left or right, is not a recipe for change or progress. It's just a way of alienating the majority of the population which lives in the middle. And THOSE are the ones that really decide the direction of the country.

    Yeah, exactly, unless like the last 8 years where we really had no say and the Dic-Tater was calling the shots!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    I don't see why everybody is acting so surprised over what Trump is doing. He won the Freaking Election! Get over it. Support him. He is doing everything he said he would do while campaigning or trying like hell to. He hasn't been 100% successful, but he hasn't given up, he's trying. And many are bitching about him not being a conservative and say he's flip flopping. He is trying to fulfill his campaign promisses and he's done a pretty good job so far . is NOT a conservative in the classic sense but he's a whole lot closer than Hillary!Yeah, he is taking a different view of China, but why? So he can work with them to do something about North Korea. Look at what he's trying to do before you shoot him down over what he says.

    He is having a problem with health care but is working on it. The bill he backed is not the most conservative. But it's somewhat different than Obummer care, but at least it's different. And I really believe since he's a deal making Dude from Hell he want's to get his foot in the door first. Once he's done that I believe he will have whatever health care bill they come up with tweaked until it fits the majority of those that voted for him's idea of decent health care insurance.

    I really believe we need to give Trump the benefit of the doubt and quit all the crying and bitching and moaning because whatever bill they come up with doesn't fit perfectly with their idea of what it should be. That's the way this guy does business.

    Trump is a business man and he knows how to deal. He doesn't like to take no for an answer, but he will work on things till he gets something satisfactory. Nobody will ever perfect everything to fit their own ideals. Trump, however will work at it until it's satisfactory to the most people. That's why he's been a success most of his life. Damn! The guy's a Freaking Billionaire. He didn't get there falling off the Onion Wagon! If you think you know better how come you haven't been elected Prez yet? There's a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on nowadays by people that THINK they know how. Like I could take Tom Brady's Job? He is now our president. We need to give him some room and see if he can pull all this off! I personally have faith that with a little cooperation from our side he can do it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I don't see why everybody is acting so surprised over what Trump is doing. He won the Freaking Election! Get over it. Support him. He is doing everything he said he would do while campaigning or trying like hell to. He hasn't been 100% successful, but he hasn't given up, he's trying. And many are bitching about him not being a conservative and say he's flip flopping. He is trying to fulfill his campaign promisses and he's done a pretty good job so far . is NOT a conservative in the classic sense but he's a whole lot closer than Hillary!Yeah, he is taking a different view of China, but why? So he can work with them to do something about North Korea. Look at what he's trying to do before you shoot him down over what he says.

    He is having a problem with health care but is working on it. The bill he backed is not the most conservative. But it's somewhat different than Obummer care, but at least it's different. And I really believe since he's a deal making Dude from Hell he want's to get his foot in the door first. Once he's done that I believe he will have whatever health care bill they come up with tweaked until it fits the majority of those that voted for him's idea of decent health care insurance.

    I really believe we need to give Trump the benefit of the doubt and quit all the crying and bitching and moaning because whatever bill they come up with doesn't fit perfectly with their idea of what it should be. That's the way this guy does business.

    Trump is a business man and he knows how to deal. He doesn't like to take no for an answer, but he will work on things till he gets something satisfactory. Nobody will ever perfect everything to fit their own ideals. Trump, however will work at it until it's satisfactory to the most people. That's why he's been a success most of his life. Damn! The guy's a Freaking Billionaire. He didn't get there falling off the Onion Wagon! If you think you know better how come you haven't been elected Prez yet? There's a lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on nowadays by people that THINK they know how. Like I could take Tom Brady's Job? He is now our president. We need to give him some room and see if he can pull all this off! I personally have faith that with a little cooperation from our side he can do it.


    This.

    We should just support him. He won the election. He is president. We need to get over it already.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    What you're talking about is the vertical axis on this chart. That isn't necessarily right or left. Plenty of statist conservatives and plenty of libertarian liberals.

    57439eda8fc573967d603a6df3108cda.jpg

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    Who came up with that chart? Howard Zinn? Lol!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    What you're talking about is the vertical axis on this chart. That isn't necessarily right or left. Plenty of statist conservatives and plenty of libertarian liberals.

    57439eda8fc573967d603a6df3108cda.jpg

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    BULL MANURE!

    That cute little diamond diagram is the biggest load of bovine scatology imaginable. The political spectrum is a linear scale with anarchy at one end and total government control at the other end. Your meme scale is cute, but totally meaningless.

    Here's you some truth on the subject of the political spectrum.

    Political%20Ideology_zpsuenzpq5p.png

    ideology_chart_2_zpsqvnh0ksl.png
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    BULL MANURE!

    That cute little diamond diagram is the biggest load of bovine scatology imaginable. The political spectrum is a linear scale with anarchy at one end and total government control at the other end. Your meme scale is cute, but totally meaningless.

    Here's you some truth on the subject of the political spectrum.

    Political%20Ideology_zpsuenzpq5p.png

    ideology_chart_2_zpsqvnh0ksl.png

    Ha! Yeah, I'm having a little difficulty with the Left = "Personal Liberty" section.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Ha! Yeah, I'm having a little difficulty with the Left = "Personal Liberty" section.

    If you mean Left = "Personal Liberty" as referring to Liberal, then you would be using the OLD meaning of LIBERAL. ANTIFA is the NEW voice of the Liberal movement. Doesn't mean squat what the dictionary says liberal means; it's what the Liberal Left says it means. Liberal and Libertarian are at opposite extremes of the political spectrum.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Continue to live in your one dimensional world if you like.

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    There you go again mischaracterizing something. Just because some political borrows from a wide spectrum of the available political constructs does not mean that they are three dimensional, or even two dimensional. It just means that they do what they can get away with, i.e. what the people they rule over will tolerate without revolution.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    No, no, NO!!! What the hell would we argue about!?!?!? :tooth:

    I'm sure I'll think of something. :tooth:

    Look, my fairly obvious troll post notwithstanding, Trump is the President and elections do matter... but I kiss no man's (or party's) ass. A long time ago, I 'identified' more left than not, then more right. Now, I just want both sides to leave me the Hell alone. I guess that makes me a Libertarian.... or maybe it just means I'm getting crotchety in my oldish age. Frankly, there isn't NEAR as much difference between the two sides as we make things out to be. They both suck at not trampling liberty, so pick your poison.

    Oh, and.... Get off my lawn!!!:guns:
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    My view of the 'political spectrum' is this:

    Totalitarian > Communist > Socialist/Liberal > Moderate > Moderate Conservative (RINO) > Libertarian Conservative > Conspiracy Nut

    The bolded center of the 'spectrum' makes up 99% of the voting public, with the Moderates representing independents who will go with either side, depending on what's in it for them, personally. Moderate conservatives are made up mostly of political opportunists who just want to be re-elected, which also describes the entire left side of the spectrum. Libertarian Conservatives are constitutional semi-purists who make allowances for a little bit of military muscle-flexing to keep from getting surrounded by the bad guys of the world.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,035 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    ...Now, I just want both sides to leave me the Hell alone. I guess that makes me a Libertarian.... or maybe it just means I'm getting crotchety in my oldish age. Frankly, there isn't NEAR as much difference between the two sides as we make things out to be. They both suck at not trampling liberty, so pick your poison.
    :agree::that:

    Like I say, Choose your Slavery America, Choose your Slavery.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,035 Senior Member
    ...the religious fundamentalist conservatives who make up a huge percentage of the right. They are very much NOT libertarian and they tend to be highly authoritarian.

    Yep. Dominionist, revisionist Theocrats.

    Choose your Slavery America, Choose your Slavery.

    I think this is a HUGE part of why Trump won - it certainly was the major reason I voted for him. He is NOT a Dominionist Theocrat.

    With that said, his running mate certainly is, and so are many of his selections for various offices, but what are you going to do?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    The problem with both you and Mike's characterization of the spectrum is you leave off the religious fundamentalist conservatives who make up a huge percentage of the right. They are very much NOT libertarian and they tend to be highly authoritarian.

    The problem with your characterization of our characterizations is that you have apparently watched too many TV evangelists and are therefore completely clueless about what you call the religious right. Politically, it is true that, given the opportunity, they will vote for candidates that present themselves as pro-life and profess to be Christians. But, they also vote for scamps like McCain, or Romney, or Donald Trump, simply because he isn't a liberal Democrat. Most fundamentalist conservatives are simply traditionalists who think the Constitution, as written, has served the country very well, when followed. Nobody gets a candidate who believes exactly what they do. Democrats do the same thing - they vote for socialists simply because they aren't evil conservatives who want to poison their children's drinking water, or lynch nice black people.

    As far as your assertion that law and order conservatives would be content with a police state, I would suggest to you that most of the WWII veterans who fought against police states were probably a good deal more conservative than today's conservatives, including the ones who were democrats. Conservatives do obey the law, mostly, but they oppose the passing of excessive laws, vigorously. On the other hand, liberals want a law for every possible infraction, so they can exert their power by enforcing only the ones they like, and ignoring the others.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    The problem with both you and Mike's characterization of the spectrum is you leave off the religious fundamentalist conservatives who make up a huge percentage of the right. They are very much NOT libertarian and they tend to be highly authoritarian. Same with the "law and order" conservatives who would be at home in a police state and are completely fine with excessive government control as long as it is targeted at everyone who believes or acts differently than them. Sprinkled in are the military Hawks, who can also be any of the above, who insist in "freedom" at home but imposing our will by force on every other country in the world as if freedom and self-determination are rights that only apply to humans born in America.

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    And like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target, and the point. Far left and far right are political extremes, and most government falls somewhere in the mostly middle. It isn't about politics, it's about FREEDOM of the individual within those two extreme limits. The far left represents no freedom whatsoever, and the far right represents ABSOLUTE FREEDOM to do anything without any repercussions.

    As to the religious fundamentalists, like Bisley said, you've been listening to Jerry Falwell and the like. If that is your idea of religious fundamentalists, then you are badly informed.

    As to the remark about conservatives that would feel at home in a police state, well, they aren't conservatives. They happen to be in that far left wing of the conservative spectrum. Like I said, political ideology can borrow from any and all of the possibilities to carve out that individual niche that is also occupied by other like minded individuals. As an example, I could say that ALL DEMOCRATS hold the exact same view as the ANTIFA in California and across the country. And my view would be just as valid as yours in lumping the whole of the left spectrum into that group.

    As to the war hawks, those are found on BOTH sides of the political spectrum. Ever heard of Lyndon Baines Johnson, or is he before your time and not relevant because of that being before you were born? I'd say he was pretty hawkish on the war thing and meddling in other countries business. And not just in VN. Then there was that Spanish American War thing. We freed a country or two from Spanish rule, and then took them over to 'protect' them. Freedom at home but imposing our will overseas? Sweet jeebus, that has been going on for MANY centuries before the colonization of the U.S.! It is obviously a learned behavior from that centuries of conquest and colonization thing, and please name WHEN AT ANY TIME IN WRITTEN HISTORY other nations have not meddled in the affairs of other nations near and far. I'll wait.

    Law and order types? If by that you mean people that want to be safe in their homes, businesses, and wherever they may be at that particular time, I'd say that covers a lot of ground, politically. Unless I'm unaware of a vast number on the left that don't care if they're robbed, raped, murdered, or mutilated; I don't know of any group like that, but I could be wrong. And the only group that seems obsessed with forcing their will on others seems to be mostly on the left side of the political spectrum. Gay rights activists are one, gun control activists another, and all the laws to make special carveouts for people to raise that minority's rights above the rights of the majority, and make sentencing for crimes an enhanced sentence just because that person identifies with that particular minority group. 'Hate crimes' statutes are the most ridiculous thing to come out of that, and is a 'check valve' statute in that it ONLY works one way, and that is ALWAYS in the favor of the minority. They can perpetrate hate crimes at will and NEVER BE PROSECUTED for a hate crime. So, lets just say that after a few decades of 'justice for me but not for thee' that there is some friction bordering on hatred about that hate crime crap.
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