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Bombs Away

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  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,697 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    :spittingcoffee: Which makes me reiterate the need for a sarcasm font. Something like Comic Sans type for sarcasm posts for pointing out sarcasm to keep panties unwadded?
    dda02647ce7c7b209be124431737d6c5.gif
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Funny no one remembers all the mystery trucks that left Iraq and went to Syria right before our invasion.

    Not to mention the documented evidence of the Boeing 747 airliners with all the seats removed that flew from Iraq to Syria (repeatedly) with "humanitarian aid" after an "earthquake", wasn't it?
    :uhm:
    Jerry
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,697 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Not to mention the documented evidence of the Boeing 747 airliners with all the seats removed that flew from Iraq to Syria (repeatedly) with "humanitarian aid" after an "earthquake", wasn't it?
    :uhm:
    Jerry
    Fake news..... a14a69c213448d5e5b514a64efce8bce.gif
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    I remember Saddam's midnight truck convoys into Syria, I wonder what was in the trucks? Saddam's comic book collection?
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,894 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Earl, I agree with you as to not being sure it was the correct move or not.

    With that said, Trump just showed the world he's not O'wimpy, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    Agreed on showing the world he's not like Obama: I think that making a line in the sand and not enforcing it was a HUGE mistake.

    As far as Syria goes, it's like a piece of poop: there's no clean end.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Agreed on showing the world he's not like Obama: I think that making a line in the sand and not enforcing it was a HUGE mistake.

    As far as Syria goes, it's like a piece of poop: there's no clean end.

    You just described the WHOLE Middle East region there.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,813 Senior Member
    I'm for letting Syria have its civil war, and the US helping whichever side is killing jihadists, even if we have to switch sides two or three times. That serves our interests and helps whoever their future leader is to understand us.
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,632 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    :spittingcoffee: Which makes me reiterate the need for a sarcasm font. Something like Comic Sans type for sarcasm posts for pointing out sarcasm to keep panties unwadded?

    Meh. Those that get it don't need to be told. Those that don't, well.....
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    Meh. Those that get it don't need to be told. Those that don't, well.....

    :rotflmao: Yeah, I can see your point! :tooth:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 445 Member
    BAMAAK wrote: »
    So what would be the best solution for you as European?

    Bamaak, that whole region has a 20+ ages history of tribal wars over and over again. There is simply nothing that will keep them from killing each other. The biggest problem in this communications age is that there will always be some "news-agency" communicating the next tragedy to us, then someone feels compelled to help and jump in, to no avail. There is no sensible way to make them live together in peace over there :(
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    What was the threat to our national security again? What happened to we will concentrate on the USA, and Syria is not an American problem? If we attacked because of human tragedy, why have we not launched strikes in Darfur, Burma, South Sudan, Venezuela, etc. what good comes from destabilizing the Assad regime? Did we learn nothing from Iraq, Tunisia, Egypt, etc?

    That attack cost us $75,000,000 in missles alone. So let me get this right. Trump made a statement to the Chinese by launching the attack while they dined together? Did he ask for the loan to pay for the attack at the same time, or is he going ask for the money tomorrow. Sabre rattling looses some of it's effect when you have to borrow money, from the one you want to rattle your saber at, so that you can rattle your saber at them.

    Now the two school yard baddies get to bow up at each other on the world stage. Neither will back down because they will lose face. Nope nothing bad can come from this at all.

    All you supporters should listen to Rand Paul's explanation of the war powers act. You might learn something. I did. Trump had no authority to launch this attack. The President's authority to unilaterally use force is only in the face of imminent threat. Where was that threat.

    This was a bad Idea when Obama considered it, and it is a bad idea now.
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    I think the message was, "Kill each other the hard way. Don't use Sarin."
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Marquess of Queensberry Rules https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bm0RIs-VJU
    The only question is who is Thornton and who is Danaher?
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,912 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Funny no one remembers all the mystery trucks that left Iraq and went to Syria right before our invasion. I guess Syria has no WMDs either... :uhm:

    Yep, there were huge convoys. Probably taking all the WMD out of Iraq that Sadaam built, and was the source of immense criticism for GWB for years after that for not being found in Iraq.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Negotiate from a position of strength.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,484 Senior Member
    HappySquid wrote: »
    Bamaak, that whole region has a 20+ ages history of tribal wars over and over again. There is simply nothing that will keep them from killing each other. The biggest problem in this communications age is that there will always be some "news-agency" communicating the next tragedy to us, then someone feels compelled to help and jump in, to no avail. There is no sensible way to make them live together in peace over there :(

    Agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, their mess has gone global. How many more "refugees" is Europe willing to take? We don't want them, the middle east doesn't want them and I don't think much of Europe wants them anymore. But their going to keep coming and bring their problems with them. If the whole world got together to put a stop to this, maybe something could get done. The US alone won't solve it and neither will russia or the UN. Not sure what to do but sitting back and watching won't work either.
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

    -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German writer and politician
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    What was the threat to our national security again? What happened to we will concentrate on the USA, and Syria is not an American problem? If we attacked because of human tragedy, why have we not launched strikes in Darfur, Burma, South Sudan, Venezuela, etc. what good comes from destabilizing the Assad regime? Did we learn nothing from Iraq, Tunisia, Egypt, etc?

    That attack cost us $75,000,000 in missles alone. So let me get this right. Trump made a statement to the Chinese by launching the attack while they dined together? Did he ask for the loan to pay for the attack at the same time, or is he going ask for the money tomorrow. Sabre rattling looses some of it's effect when you have to borrow money, from the one you want to rattle your saber at, so that you can rattle your saber at them.

    Now the two school yard baddies get to bow up at each other on the world stage. Neither will back down because they will lose face. Nope nothing bad can come from this at all.

    All you supporters should listen to Rand Paul's explanation of the war powers act. You might learn something. I did. Trump had no authority to launch this attack. The President's authority to unilaterally use force is only in the face of imminent threat. Where was that threat.

    This was a bad Idea when Obama considered it, and it is a bad idea now.

    History is a son of an unwed mother. VN is a good example. Kennedy sent in 'advisers'. Then he was assassinated and LBJ used the second attack, lets say 'alleged attack', on the USS Maddox and the USS Turner Joy to get the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution passed in Congress, and then LBJ really got things rolling. Up until now, that was our longest undeclared war. Congress porked Fido back then, and they've done it repeatedly since. They are gutless when it comes to doing their design function in that respect. They could stop this mess if they wanted to, but they're mostly like a bunch of little scolded puppies lying on their backs and peeing on their bellies when it comes to declaring war or saying 'NO!' and making it stick.

    We have troops in Syria already. For good or ill, they are there and in harms way. They need to be protected; wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for Assad to target them with some Sarin or other WMD gas. The missile attack was a warning not to target our troops with that stuff, if nothing else.

    And that cruise missile attack was a "KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE WMD!" message. Kill all they want with conventional means, but no more WMD attacks. As to the missiles expended, they have a shelf life just like meat in the supermarket. If not expended, they have to be removed, refurbished, and all the electronics tested to ensure they will fire before being put back in stock. Back in stock: civilian speak for going back to the magazines for future deployment. Really old ones have the warheads removed and are used in war games for what is called telemetry shoots for training purposes and to hit targets. And for the record, the life of one military member is worth all the cruise missiles in inventory. We can make more missiles to replace the ones expended; we cannot replace a life; differing opinions on this, but that's MY opinion and I'm sticking to it.

    War powers act: Congress has abdicated on that act so many times it is as useless as teats on a boar hog. Congress hasn't had the intestinal fortitude to do their required function in that respect since WWII, and only because we were attacked. If Japan hadn't attacked and Germany hadn't declared war on us then WWII would have been a lot different. Congress would not have declared war because they were pretty much isolationist.

    Regarding the saber rattling thing, some of us were in the service during VN and later during the Cold War, and grew up during the Cold War. We aren't anywhere near that level of saber rattling, and the Russian fleet isn't anywhere near what it was in the Med or the Atlantic that it was back then. And Russia isn't stupid; they aren't likely, at all, to go to war with us over Syria. They're making money hand over fist in Syria since Syria is their new 'client state' much like Egypt was back in the '60s and '70s.

    As to the indigenous players over there, they've been fighting since the time all they had was rocks to bash each others brains out with, and will continue to do so. The Muslim population is made up of a bucketful of different sects and they all hate each other. Alliances are fluid in that they will ally themselves against a common enemy, and once that enemy is defeated they go back to fighting each other. Assad's Alawite sect is a minority in Syria, and he has ruled with a dictator's iron fist. Thus the civil war. Lots of different player sects involved, and ISIS is foaming at the mouth to come out on top for their setting up the caliphate. If we are going to be there fighting anybody, then it should be ISIS and no one else. Let the others kill each other by the gobs and bunches; we should be concentrating on ISIS, and ISIS alone if we are going to be there.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    HappySquid wrote: »
    Bamaak, that whole region has a 20+ ages history of tribal wars over and over again. There is simply nothing that will keep them from killing each other. The biggest problem in this communications age is that there will always be some "news-agency" communicating the next tragedy to us, then someone feels compelled to help and jump in, to no avail. There is no sensible way to make them live together in peace over there :
    (
    They all have the same tribal motto. Never forget. Always get even.
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,534 Senior Member
    I have some questions, and I have asked them before. But they seem to be ignored.

    Since when is Assad an evil dictator? Do you know how the Civil War started in Syria? Do you know how ISIS came into the picture? Do you know where ISIS came from?

    I will tell you. In 2011 Syria was going to be the next domino in the Arab Spring. The Syrian Military police scooped up a bunch of teenagers advocating the Arab Spring uprising in Syria. One of the Teenagers died from torture. It was from that point that the country came unglued. Al Assad, "the evil dictator" was trying his damdest to keep his country from becoming Libya or Egypt. While he didn't use the best methods, he was working with what he had. Instead of the world trying to help him, the US, Britain, and Jordon worked against him. But, guess who did come to his aid? Thats right Iran and Russia. They were the only people interested in seeing a legitimate government staying in power. The US was interested in arming the same people that tore up Egypt, Libya, and Tunisia.

    Wether the US wants to claim credit for it or not, The US created ISIS. Or, gave ISIS the environment in which to flourish. Abu Al Zarqawi (AAZ) was on his way to formally becoming a splinter cell from AQI when we swacked him in June of 06. His second in command, Al Masari, took over and continued the separation. By the end of 2007, Islamic State of Iraq (ISI) was a separate functioning network. The US kept this news low key. 2008, The surge was working, we were doing good, JAM and BADR Corps (Shia actors in Iraq) had bought into the political process and stopped attacks and AQI was on the run. With the next POTUS, we announce the leaving of Iraq. In 2010 US forces hunted down and swacked Al Masari, well we hunted him down and he blew himself up. Abu Bakr takes over and starts a heavy recruiting cycle, the US completely ignores what is happening in Mosul, An Bar, and Tal Afar and continues the withdrawl. By 2012, the US Mission is over, the Syrian Civil war is in full cycle and Abu Bakr gets a bright idea. in 2013 Abu Bakr unites ISI with the Syrian rebel group, because they are receiving guns and support from the US back "moderate rebels", and form ISIS. From that point forward, ISIS starts to become a real country with an Army, economy, system of government, and land. They spread as far east as the outskirts of Irbil, the city of Tikrit, and all of An Bar. In 2014, the US State department escalates the fight under their title and Operation OIR comes on line.

    There is no proof, at all, that Bashar used the chemical weapons. In fact he is denying it, and his army is denying it. Had we back the legitimate government from the start, we would know the truth on this. We would also know if he turned over all the chemical weapons in 2013 like he said he did.

    To sum up most of this, Democratic Foreign Policy put us into this and it could have been avoided if we were allowed to continue the mission in Iraq and help Asaad with his country.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    History is a son of an unwed mother. VN is a good example. Kennedy sent in 'advisers'. Then he was assassinated and LBJ used the second attack, lets say 'alleged attack', on the USS Maddox and the USS Turner Joy to get the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution passed in Congress, and then LBJ really got things rolling. Up until now, that was our longest undeclared war. Congress porked Fido back then, and they've done it repeatedly since. They are gutless when it comes to doing their design function in that respect. They could stop this mess if they wanted to, but they're mostly like a bunch of little scolded puppies lying on their backs and peeing on their bellies when it comes to declaring war or saying 'NO!' and making it stick.

    We have troops in Syria already. For good or ill, they are there and in harms way. They need to be protected; wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility for Assad to target them with some Sarin or other WMD gas. The missile attack was a warning not to target our troops with that stuff, if nothing else.

    And that cruise missile attack was a "KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE WMD!" message. Kill all they want with conventional means, but no more WMD attacks. As to the missiles expended, they have a shelf life just like meat in the supermarket. If not expended, they have to be removed, refurbished, and all the electronics tested to ensure they will fire before being put back in stock. Back in stock: civilian speak for going back to the magazines for future deployment. Really old ones have the warheads removed and are used in war games for what is called telemetry shoots for training purposes and to hit targets. And for the record, the life of one military member is worth all the cruise missiles in inventory. We can make more missiles to replace the ones expended; we cannot replace a life; differing opinions on this, but that's MY opinion and I'm sticking to it.

    War powers act: Congress has abdicated on that act so many times it is as useless as teats on a boar hog. Congress hasn't had the intestinal fortitude to do their required function in that respect since WWII, and only because we were attacked. If Japan hadn't attacked and Germany hadn't declared war on us then WWII would have been a lot different. Congress would not have declared war because they were pretty much isolationist.

    Regarding the saber rattling thing, some of us were in the service during VN and later during the Cold War, and grew up during the Cold War. We aren't anywhere near that level of saber rattling, and the Russian fleet isn't anywhere near what it was in the Med or the Atlantic that it was back then. And Russia isn't stupid; they aren't likely, at all, to go to war with us over Syria. They're making money hand over fist in Syria since Syria is their new 'client state' much like Egypt was back in the '60s and '70s.

    As to the indigenous players over there, they've been fighting since the time all they had was rocks to bash each others brains out with, and will continue to do so. The Muslim population is made up of a bucketful of different sects and they all hate each other. Alliances are fluid in that they will ally themselves against a common enemy, and once that enemy is defeated they go back to fighting each other. Assad's Alawite sect is a minority in Syria, and he has ruled with a dictator's iron fist. Thus the civil war. Lots of different player sects involved, and ISIS is foaming at the mouth to come out on top for their setting up the caliphate. If we are going to be there fighting anybody, then it should be ISIS and no one else. Let the others kill each other by the gobs and bunches; we should be concentrating on ISIS, and ISIS alone if we are going to be there.
    So pull our troops out. Then you don't have to spend $75,000,000 dollars to protect the troops from a hypothetical sarin attack. Assad ain't that stupid anyway. As for sending a message, Assad isn't doing anything our own Gov co wouldn't do if in the same situation. We have no business being there in any capacity. Syria is no immediate threat to our national security.

    The sabre rattling was more for China/North Korea than for Russia. I thought we were now friends with Putin anyway. When did that change. I get so lost where we are with the position du jour of this admin.

    Things have a way of escalating fast when the two school yard bullies have to save face. One of these times we are gonna kill a few of them or visa versa, and that will be it.

    As to VN. The trumped up Gulf of Tonkin event couldn't have happened if we weren't sticking our nose into another a$$ hole it didn't belong in. Look how that ended up.

    This is idiocy of the highest order, and the growing swamp in DC hasn't learned anything from 6000 years of history. Let alone the last 16.
  • RocketmanRocketman Banned Posts: 1,118 Senior Member
    I've always been dumbfounded that human beings are the dumbest mammals on earth, unable to survive on their own from birth but have been given dominion over the whole world and everything within it. And we could eff up a free lunch. That goes for everybody meddling in everyone else's business.
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,534 Senior Member
    Putin' response was on the money. The United States just conducted an air strike on a sovereign nation.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Has the Russian ship broken down yet or is it still under it's own power?
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Putin' response was on the money. The United States just conducted an air strike on a sovereign nation.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Yep. And whether or not we declared war legally, we just conducted an act of war on an nation that hasn't done a damn thing to us. They didn't even threaten to.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,408 Senior Member
    Yep. And whether or not we declared war legally, we just conducted an act of war on an nation that hasn't done a damn thing to us. They didn't even threaten to.

    Well. . .in kind of a long, drawn-out way, we have Adolph Hitler to thank in part for drawing the line on WMD's. Bad as he was, and bad as WWII was, his WWI experience kept even HIM from breaking out the chemical weapons on the battlefield. It's been an internationally recognized thing since 1918 that breaking out the chems is a road we shouldn't go down again, and THAT'S the issue here. If Assad was killing his people with machetes, bullets, or plastic sporks, I expect the Tomahawks would still be in their tubes.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 18,145 Senior Member
    After a bit of time thinking about this here's where I come down on it...

    This strike was largely a symbolic action. We struck an airforce base without doing any serious permanent damage. We warned the Russians (which means we also warned the Syrians) and didn't damage the runway or any operational aircraft. The military value of the strike was nill.

    The political value however was high. After Obama balked the first time chems were used we needed to send a more clear message that we can and will do something to nations that use banned weapons, even if this was only really a warning shot. The other political factor is that it sets us nominally against the Russians which is good for Trump in that it at least marginally goes against the prevailing Russian collusion narrative. It also lets Trump look tough, at least in comparison to Obama, which isn't saying much.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

    Who are you and what have you done with alpha?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    Who are you and what have you done with alpha?

    I was thinking the same thing!! He's pretty much on the money me thinks. This was a warning shot,
    there's a new sheriff in town
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Well. . .in kind of a long, drawn-out way, we have Adolph Hitler to thank in part for drawing the line on WMD's. Bad as he was, and bad as WWII was, his WWI experience kept even HIM from breaking out the chemical weapons on the battlefield. It's been an internationally recognized thing since 1918 that breaking out the chems is a road we shouldn't go down again, and THAT'S the issue here. If Assad was killing his people with machetes, bullets, or plastic sporks, I expect the Tomahawks would still be in their tubes.
    So are you saying we just have the right anytime we feel like it, to attack a sovereign nation, that is no threat to us, just because they choose to use chemicals, rather than metal, to kill their people?

    In South Sudan they are raping the women, then permanently disfiguring them with fire too the face. They make the sons, and husbands watch this, then they lock them in a building and burn them alive. So this practice is acceptable, because they did not use chemicals right?

    Furthermore the reason "we republicans" hated Clinton's involvement in the Balkans was because no chemicals were used to commit the atrocities? Is that why we hated Clinton's intervention, but we love Trump for doing it here?
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    The other truly funny item, is that the runway is still in use, if you can believe the news. $75,000,000, 59 missles, and the base is still usable. Good grief what an efficient, and effective operation. We get to play dictators of the world, waste money, ratchet up tensions, and fail to accomplish our primary stated goal. This is clearly a win for everyone.
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