Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

Video's of Police.

earlyearly Senior MemberPosts: 4,950 Senior Member
There's one making the rounds here locally. I dont have a link, but I think mitigating circumstances are obvious, and the images are not nearly as much as what it looks like.

IMO a major problem with this trend is the micro management of municipal PD's by the court of public opinion. If this becomes normal I'm afraid justice to what ever extent it exists will be denied to both the public and the LEO's.
My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
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Replies

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Is this the one about the drunk college coed in the short black dress getting taken down hard by a cop for the shoulder check she gave him? Basically, she did an 'assault on cop' and got the short dirty end of the stick for it. She played a stupid game and won the stupid prize for it. And if it's the video I saw, it starts WAY past where the incident started with the bouncer at the bar. Belligerent drunks mixing it up with the cops is really old, and always seems to end the same way.

    "Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." Douglas Adams

    That's all I got.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    That's the one.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Some of my students who already had extensive rap sheets while still in high school used to talk about getting a "screen test". That's where their belligerent attitude while handcuffed in the back of a police car made the driver suddenly hit the brakes hard to avoid "the dog that ran out in front of me" and test the integrity of the expanded metal screen between the front and back seats!
    Jerry
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,694 Senior Member
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,694 Senior Member
    Here's a new concept. Don't resist................
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Here's a new concept. Don't resist................

    Ding! The one commonality of that clip and the others that were shown is they all resisted! The report that I watched pointed out that the officers bodycam showed the entire incident that led up to the body slam and that would eventually be released.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    IMO a major problem with this trend is the micro management of municipal PD's by the court of public opinion. If this becomes normal I'm afraid justice to what ever extent it exists will be denied to both the public and the LEO's.


    Why is micromanaging the police a bad thing? They work for the people. If cops want to wield the power of incarceration and sanctioned violence (including lethal force), they should be scrutinized down to last detail. Every encounter should be digitally recorded and the picked apart after, if suspected questionable.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I think what's going to happen is that the autonomy of these individual PD's to manage themselves is going to be considerably diminished with they're ability to maintain the rule of law commensurately diminished.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    I think what's going to happen is that the autonomy of these individual PD's to manage themselves is going to be considerably diminished with they're ability to maintain the rule of law commensurately diminished.

    Police departments should never be autonomous to manage themselves. They are a public entity. They must be held accountable for every action and every nickel spent.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    This is certainly the most pertinent question isn't it??? Transparency to the public and public oversight is good. But where do these things begin to hamstring a department's ability to act???

    Reality is always faster than bureaucracy.

    And who in the public over sees???

    Edit.
    Also, what constitutes transparency to the public???
    I believe these videos in many cases are incomplete. Could officer worn body cameras have the same flaw??? Or will the images be the end all of evidence???
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 7,413 Senior Member
    So this happened in my turf. If you are in the down town area after, say, 10pm you are going to run into a ton of entitled, drunk, little pain in the donkeys college kids or "partiers." Old town is an awesome place just not at night. So I'm positive there is so much more to the story other than the sensationalized 30 seconds the media is showing. Just an FYI it was windy as hell and 40ish degrees last night. The little darling girl was dressed for the weather....:wink:
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Police departments should never be autonomous to manage themselves. They are a public entity. They must be held accountable for every action and every nickel spent.

    No police agency is "autonomous." How little you know.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    This is certainly the most pertinent question isn't it??? Transparency to the public and public oversight is good. But where do these things begin to hamstring a department's ability to act??? Please define "act". Do you mean the ability to buy MRAPs and 50 cal MGs without citizen oversight?

    Reality is always faster than bureaucracy. I agree with this statement, but I cannot see the relevance to this conversation.

    And who in the public over sees??? Many municipalities have citizen oversight committees. We cannot allow PDs to investigate themselves. It is a conflict of interest.

    Edit.
    Also, what constitutes transparency to the public??? Here's one example: There's a Detroit PD officer that has shot 69 dogs in the line of duty. Detroit will not release his name. The only statement given is "the officer has the most dangerous job in the department." The lack of transparency in this situation looks like they are covering for a psychopath.

    I believe these videos in many cases are incomplete. Could officer worn body cameras have the same flaw??? Or will the images be the end all of evidence???

    The videos do not show everything, but in many cases the video reveals evidence contrary to the police narrative and contrary the accused's version. Take a look at some of these and decide for yourself. http://photographyisnotacrime.com/

    .
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    No police agency is "autonomous." How little you know.

    I was answering early's question. Troll elsewhere.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    While it might seem harsh sometimes a quick strong movement to take down a person does less damage than a struggle try to use minimal force. Basically a 1 swift movement with more force than an extended 15-20 second "dance" is sometimes more desirable and even SOP. Now does that apply to a 115lb woman ... I'm not sure but he could have wrestled with her arm(s) and her resisting could have lead to her being cuffed with less bruises and such but it could also have lead to say a dislocated shoulder, broken wrist or such. I was not there and we only have the 9 second video ... the body camera will shine more light on the arrest and they board can review from there. Personally I don't think I'd have gone that route but she could have been more of a handful than I think.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    I was answering early's question. Troll elsewhere.

    No police agency is autonomous. They all answer to someone. In the final chapter, the SCOTUS.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I guess what Im going the long way around to say is that I don't trust video as being the end all of public transparency.

    I picture a circumstance where an officer hesitates to enforce the law for fear of being condemned by a 90 second video. Or maybe the same 90 seconds supports a corrupt police narrative.

    What I mean by autonomy to act is not being able to respond to a disturbance without taking extra time to verify a potentially complexed criteria.

    I don't doubt that the purchase on military equipment is beyond reasonable, but I'm more concerned with video is used in this discussion.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    I guess what Im going the long way around to say is that I don't trust video as being the end all of public transparency.

    I picture a circumstance where an officer hesitates to enforce the law for fear of being condemned by a 90 second video. Or maybe the same 90 seconds supports a corrupt police narrative.

    What I mean by autonomy to act is not being able to respond to a disturbance without taking extra time to verify a potentially complexed criteria.

    I don't doubt that the purchase on military equipment is beyond reasonable, but I'm more concerned with video is used in this discussion.


    I agree...video should not be the end all for transparency; but it goes a long way. Not so long ago, it was the cops' word against the accused. Without any other evidence, the cop is considered the better witness and juries would side with the State. At least with video recording there is an opportunity to judge both cop and accused.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Without seeing the whole video, I'll remain somewhat objective, yet leaning toward the side that it was a bit excessive..
    I mean, couldn't two grown ass men subdue her without throwing her face first into the concrete?
    Go ahead, tell me I'm a cop hater. Tell me I've never done the job, I can't judge, blah blah ing blah.

    My thinking thismorning was that a whole community may have this same knee jerk reaction, forceing a police department to react to that rather than the intire incident.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    My thinking thismorning was that a whole community may have this same knee jerk reaction, forceing a police department to react to that rather than the intire incident.

    They should react to the excessive force accusation. It was excessive for the situation.

    If a drunk girl shoulder checked you right now, would you grab her and slam her face first into the concrete?

    A person that reacts in this manner is likely a sociopath.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    They should react to the excessive force accusation. It was excessive for the situation.

    If a drunk girl shoulder checked you right now, would you grab her and slam her face first into the concrete?

    A person that reacts in this manner is likely a sociopath.

    In this particular intance the excessively high heeled shoes worn by the girl gave an inaccurate image of the force applied by the officer. Of course that is just my own interpretation of the video.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Huh?

    Look at the shoes. Very tall heels. She was off balance. Maybe even pulled the officer down some during the incident.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    Look at the shoes. Very tall heels. She was off balance. Maybe even pulled the officer down some during the incident.

    This is a perfect example of video failure. You see an off-balance woman wearing heels that may have pulled the officer down.

    I see a sociopath violently throwing a 110 lbs drunk woman into the concrete face first.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,615 Senior Member
    Sociopath? Based on a 20-second video? Please.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • tubabucknuttubabucknut Banned Posts: 3,520 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    She didn't fall. She was thrown.

    He may have had every right and duty to arrest her, but come on. She is 115 lbs. If you can not subdue a drunk coed without face planting her, maybe you should be doing something else.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Some of these brats are finally getting the spankings they should have gotten years and years ago. Serves them right, and hopefully will do them some good. Better late than never. Book 'em, Danno.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,035 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Some of these brats are finally getting the spankings they should have gotten years and years ago. Serves them right, and hopefully will do them some good. Better late than never. Book 'em, Danno.

    WORD.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    She didn't fall. She was thrown.

    She had help, I don't deny that. I still think the shoes skews the image. There may be additional evidence that took place afterwards or even prior to the video that indicate exessive force or just the opposite. But the video shows me a scuffle. She was pulled off her footing and forced to the ground. The question in my mind is how hard. I don't see any injury in the subsequent mug shot.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 7,413 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Some of these brats are finally getting the spankings they should have gotten years and years ago. Serves them right, and hopefully will do them some good. Better late than never. Book 'em, Danno.
    Yup!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    She's got a pretty good shiner on the point of her chin, according to one photo that was published by her family, or maybe her lawyer- - - - -photo-shopped a little, maybe?
    Jerry
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