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ASTM to set cannabis standards

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Replies

  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    The war on drugs is a huge cash cow and it's not going anywhere.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,614 Senior Member
    It's a cash drain instead of a cash cow. There are a lot of issues with drugs that go outside using them...cartels, for example. People will kill for territory since drugs are a lucrative market. I don't know how it's done in those states where it's legal, but they might serve as a model for the eventual legalization nationwide. Of course there will always be hold-outs, but I think it's an idea whose time has come, for better or worse.

    I think marijuana is a threshold drug, but so is alcohol and tobacco. It USED to be, anyway. Now, with meth and crack, it's hard to say users of these drugs got started on marijuana.Unlike alcohol, few domestic violence crimes that I know of are committed under the influence of marijuana...this is a personal observation and might be wrong.

    Since it has a medical value in MOST (or many) states, it will soon be off Schedule 1.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • RocketmanRocketman Banned Posts: 1,118 Senior Member
    I forget how many millions, maybe billions the FDA spent on developing a synthetic marijuana, but if that doesn't show you why the feds keep the real deal illegal, than I best break out the crayons and start making colorful pictures to depict why. Big pharma is pulling purse strings as usual.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,614 Senior Member
    When my wife was in Stage 4 and was nauseated a friend of hers who was a big fan of marijuana recommended it for nausea. My wife had cancer that had went to her lung and the idea of introducing smoke into her diseased lungs was not her idea of treatment. She asked her doctor about it and he said there were a lot more effective drugs for nausea, but would give her synthetic THC if she wanted to try it, which he did. I believe it was called Marinol. It didn't do anything for her sickness, but she said that the feeling of being stoned while she was dying was not a pleasant experience.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • RocketmanRocketman Banned Posts: 1,118 Senior Member
    There are a ton of other ways to intake marijuana. And there are also a ton of other non psychoactive cannabinoids in marijuana that are extremely medicinal. I take CBD oil for my shakes and its cut them down to hardly a tremor. And no side affects or feeling funny.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    Buford wrote: »
    Out here a lot of young folks have medicinal pot. When I go camping my children invite their friends and when standing around the campfire most of them are pulling out their prescription pot. I ask them how they got it and I get migraine headaches, back problems. A prescription of medicinal pot is just for the asking.

    Yep. It doesn't have the (yet) documented effects of opiate and opioid medications so doctors and dispensary employees don't feel any sense of liability. It's the new Ritalin.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    "Uncle Joe takes a drink every now and then, just to 'steady' himself- - - - - -sometimes he gets so steady he can't move!" Nothing like adding yet another legal intoxicant to the mix, is there?
    :uhm:
    Jerry
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I'm fine with it being legal. I think it needs to be properly labeled as to potency, recommended dosage, purity, origin, etcetera. Said labeling should be mandated by law.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    I don't really care as long as it stops a big part of the gangs and smuggling at the border. People that are going to smoke it are already smoking it just like people that wanted to drink were drinking anyway during Prohibition. All that money that should be staying in our economy is getting sent to Mexico.

    For example, I got a call yesterday to build a grow shed.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Yes! We need more government intervention! It's good for us all. :up:

    Absolutely. Big government is partisan rhetoric. Privatised corrections, commons, municipalities, etc circumvent the democratic process and replace incidental bureaucracy with the very tyrannical control that you oppose.

    I want my prescription drugs, food, vehicles, on and on to be safe.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    The only real problem with potency, purity, etc. standards is that amount of regulation will snuff out any small businesses that could be associated with the industry and leave the market wide open to our politicians' corporate masters.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    The only real problem with potency, purity, etc. standards is that amount of regulation will snuff out any small businesses that could be associated with the industry and leave the market wide open to our politicians' corporate masters.


    Unfortunately this will never be a game for small business. Sure, some will pop up and be successful, but that'll be a small minority of businesses.

    Here in FL a massive law firm is already establishing investment networks and property for grows, etc. They have billions (yes) to back this. They are establishing themselves already as the behemoth all others will pick fruit from.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    Unfortunately this will never be a game for small business.
    Right now, there are lots of stoners growing it in their back yards and in closets. Why would big business be needed to do this? Just like the spirits industry. Back in the day, every farmer with an excess of crops was making booze on their own just fine. I understand the need for the consumer to have standards where they are assured that they are getting what they paid for, but if it gets turned into something that only those with very deep pockets can do in order to make their pockets deeper-- that bothers me.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    So, you want your pot labeled and safe....
    So....say you grew it in your backyard. You gonna send it off to get tested and labeled? You'd have to. To make sure it's safe.

    I assume he sends all of his game animals to the FDA. Ensure proper handling, storage, lead free meat, etc. Same with garden vegetables.

    It astounds me how people believe the government keeps them safe. They think companies are constantly trying to kill their customer base.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I don't really care as long as it stops a big part of the gangs and smuggling at the border. People that are going to smoke it are already smoking it just like people that wanted to drink were drinking anyway during Prohibition. All that money that should be staying in our economy is getting sent to Mexico.

    For example, I got a call yesterday to build a grow shed.

    I agree, but I don't think it will stop that. The big cash cow, cash dump whatever are the hard drugs. Opiates like cocaine and it's derivatives and Heroin Or Opium and its derivatives of which there are many. That's the big joke here. How much money are we blowing on reining in the Marijuana trade? We need to put that toward the Hard Stuff. And to say that pot leads to the hard stuff is pure BS. It is not physically addictive or it doesn't make a person want to try hard drugs due to physical addiction. If people get hooked on heroin because they hang out with people that do heroin it's because of that association, when you're around something you tend to be susceptible to trying it. The problem is while Mary Jane is illegal, it can be found or bought within the crowds doing the hard stuff too. Give people a legal alternative to hard drugs. Break that association. I know more than a few old pot heads that grow their own or have access to it without having to associate with hard drug users that have never ever tried Cocaine OR heroin or their derivatives but have smoked a joint almost daily over the last 50 years. You put the money we spend on chasing down people dealing pot toward those selling and dealing with opium and cocaine and their derivatives and you might see a real difference in the sales of hard drugs.

    I may be full of it here, but anybody can grow a mary Jane bush in their attic or behind the shop, but who can grow Opium poppies and Coca bushes here in the U.S.? And Mary Jane is a pretty good girl. She won't make you go bat ca-ca crazy and shoot people over territory. And it's not addictive to where people will break into your gun cabinet or steal your TVs, stereos, and computer equipment to score a lid. Take the law dogs off the pot and you will see improvement in many areas.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    So, you want your pot labeled and safe....
    So....say you grew it in your backyard. You gonna send it off to get tested and labeled? You'd have to. To make sure it's safe.

    Pot homegrown is not consumed by the general public. Some common sence regulation now would reduce ammunition for those trying to eradicate the industry later. Excessive and burdensome does not need to characterise all regulations.

    Edit
    I have absolutely no trust in the good will of my corporate brother. At least big brother pretends to give me a voice.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    coolgunguy wrote: »
    I honestly could not care less if it is ever 'legalized'. I don't care if they "Do the right thing" - whatever that is - regarding drug use. My interest is far more pragmatic... I'm tired of my government spending billions of dollars per year in order to save me from potheads and other folks I have no interest in.

    Set the standards, arrest the folks who operate impaired and leave the rest of us the Hell alone.

    That's where I land on this one.

    Well, that's exactly where we all should be. A free society only works if you got a set of good laws which people will be more apt to obey and people AND the law should leave others alone. As long as people are living within the RULE OF LAW, there should be NO reason to bother each other. But don't make laws so restrictive some people will be tempted to violate the few laws you have. Substances that will harm others or addict kids should be illegal. And on the other hand all this rule of law won't work if people get a slap on the wrist if caught violating it. Punishment should be swift and just and bad enough to where nobody desires to violate it.

    All this is what I believe the founders and framers wanted. There's a lot more discussion that could be added here, but most of it gets away from the original subject so rather than try to drift off subject, I'll leave those opinions for another thread sometime.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Right now, there are lots of stoners growing it in their back yards and in closets. Why would big business be needed to do this? Just like the spirits industry. Back in the day, every farmer with an excess of crops was making booze on their own just fine. I understand the need for the consumer to have standards where they are assured that they are getting what they paid for, but if it gets turned into something that only those with very deep pockets can do in order to make their pockets deeper-- that bothers me.


    That's what'll happen. It's bound to.

    Even if the market was recreational versus medicinal, like liquor, who has the money and infrastructure to begin a distillery with even 20% market competitiveness compared to Buffalo Trace or Four Roses or, god forbid, Jack Daniels.

    The guy making white lightning in his shed--even if it was a legitimate operation--ain't making more than pocket money by comparison.

    As to weed in stoners closets, they won't do anything with their lives anyways. They have no business sense and are too lazy to find any. 1-2% of those stoners will actually stay in business school long enough to see the light and make some smart business ventures.

    99%, just like in all business, will fail, fail to launch, or never even try to begin with.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Well...since truckers (and apparently cattlemen) skirt the system, pot farmers and retailers are most likely going to continue buying from the cartels, even when the farms and the stores are four miles apart. :uhm:

    Ending prohibition ends the need for illegal importation. If people didn't have to worry about midnight police raids and property confiscation, they'd grow their own. Tax free....

    If you knew the 'whole nine yards' that made me do that, then you'd figure it out.
    Working forced overtime on my off days put me in a lot higher tax bracket; high enough that those overtime days ended up being time and one eighth instead of time and a half and double time. ALL tax deductions combined were running close to 40% of earned income because I was filing single. Yay. I went several stretches of 6 months without a day off.

    Ever sold stock at the stock barn? No matter if you have inoculation records they inoculate them and charge you for it. And testing for brucelosis, blackleg, and anthrax, among others, and that Fed Gov mandated ripoff, a.k.a. the Beef Checkoff fee per head for advertising beef. Seriously? The government needs to advertise meat for you? :roll2: And the stock barn fees for feed and auction costs. The freakin' fees would eat your lunch, especially if price per hundredweight was down, and it was frequently. But you never saw the price drop at the supermarket. And since no taxes were taken out, Unka Sam got a share of the profits at tax time, and the IRS pitched a fit because I didn't file quarterly taxes on cattle sales when I sold only once per year in the fall. Trying to explain once per year cattle sales to an IRS window licker was an exercise in futility; I've had more stimulating and enlightening conversation with a locust fence post. And filing quarterly would have cost me $$$ for a tax service; another drain on trying to break even, and mostly failing because of limited deductions on farming costs. So the solution the IRS window lickers came up with was to pay a set amount quarterly whether I sold anything or not (and I didn't; I sold once per year) and then do the yearly tax thing. Gotta love the Fed Gov window licking contingent; they wanted their money before I got it!

    Wanna know why I got out of the cattle business?
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    That's what'll happen. It's bound to.

    Even if the market was recreational versus medicinal, like liquor, who has the money and infrastructure to begin a distillery with even 20% market competitiveness compared to Buffalo Trace or Four Roses or, god forbid, Jack Daniels.

    The guy making white lightning in his shed--even if it was a legitimate operation--ain't making more than pocket money by comparison.

    As to weed in stoners closets, they won't do anything with their lives anyways. They have no business sense and are too lazy to find any. 1-2% of those stoners will actually stay in business school long enough to see the light and make some smart business ventures.

    99%, just like in all business, will fail, fail to launch, or never even try to begin with.
    I have been encountering all the hurdles needing to jump to make it in the distilled spirits market, just as you have had to contend with all the crap associated with getting into the firearm manufacturing business so we both know better. Looking at it, tell me how many of those regulations actually have something to do with the safety of the public vs. the goobermint getting their money and/or being a barrier in place to discourage us little guys from going into business?

    I have no problems with little guys competing with Ruger, Glock, and Remington, nor am I afraid of competing with Brown-Forman (the mega billion dollar, multinational company that owns and manages the brand, Jack Daniels, among many many others). I just want to make sure small businesses and start ups are not shut out of the industry. Big business has a way (through their lobbyists) of influencing legislation that does that, and it pisses me off.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    early wrote: »
    Pot homegrown is not consumed by the general public. Some common sense regulation now would reduce ammunition for those trying to eradicate the industry later. Excessive and burdensome does not need to characterise all regulations.

    Common sense regulations.....Where have I heard that before?
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    As to weed in stoners closets, they won't do anything with their lives anyways. They have no business sense and are too lazy to find any. 1-2% of those stoners will actually stay in business school long enough to see the light and make some smart business ventures.

    Can you give anything that remotely looks like a source? Any correlation between pot smoking and "no business sense" and/or "too lazy to find any"?

    I've known a lot of people that smoke(d) weed over the years. They ranged from skilled labor to MBA's. No matter what the career, the only time they quit smoking pot was because of drug testing at work. The self employed never quit smoking.

    Yes, there were the lazy stereotypical stoners, but they sold weed to everyone else.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    If you knew the 'whole nine yards' that made me do that, then you'd figure it out.

    I do not blame anyone for trying to get around federal BS. With modern tech, it is getting more difficult, especially with cash being a target of LE.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    And giving this a little thought... the government really doesn't need to provide/set/regulate standards for this. Ideally, the industry would do it itself. SAAMI in the firearm industry is a good example. Having standards and accountability would be good for the industry as a whole-- be it big boys or little guys.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    And giving this a little thought... the government really doesn't need to provide/set/regulate standards for this. Ideally, the industry would do it itself. SAAMI in the firearm industry is a good example. Having standards and accountability would be good for the industry as a whole-- be it big boys or little guys.

    The first line of this thread:
    Finally, an NGO a setting standards (and not penalties) for the marijuana industry.

    ASTM is setting standards without government or conservative GOP rhetoric.
    Subcommittees:
    D37.01 Indoor and Outdoor Horticulture and Agriculture
    D37.02 Quality Management Systems
    D37.03 Laboratory
    D37.04 Processing and Handling
    D37.05 Security and Transportation
    D37.06 Personnel Training, Assessment, Credentialing
    D37.91 Terminology
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Common sense regulations.....Where have I heard that before?

    Without gun control, none of us could hit anything.:tooth:
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    And giving this a little thought... the government really doesn't need to provide/set/regulate standards for this. Ideally, the industry would do it itself. SAAMI in the firearm industry is a good example. Having standards and accountability would be good for the industry as a whole-- be it big boys or little guys.

    I'd be happy with that.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    The first line of this thread:



    ASTM is setting standards without government or conservative GOP rhetoric.
    Yea. So? With reading comprehension, how could we fill 3 pages in a thread?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,614 Senior Member
    No controls on it now...how well is that working out?
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,068 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    No controls on it now...how well is that working out?

    Better than immigration?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
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