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Jayhawker wrote: »
...morons on social media...
cpj wrote: »
Hint: this forum is social media.
bisley wrote: »
Another thing to consider about the pulling down of the RE Lee statue. Lee was a very proud and patriotic American, with strong roots going back to the American Revolution (against the King).
tennmike wrote: »
President Buchanan was still POTUS when the first Southern states seceded. He was the one that could have, but did not, deal in a timely manner about forts and other installations of the Union in the seceded Southern states. He left Lincoln with that mess. And if you think those relief ships Lincoln had only food supplies for Ft. Sumter, then I have some info on Gulf of Mexico beach front property in Montana in which you might like to invest.
As to Lincoln, here's a bit of what he could have done, proposed, and then reneged on what he said he would do. Read the whole thing; it's some interesting information.
On March 5, Lincoln learned from Maj. Robert Anderson, the commander at Fort Sumter, that dwindling food supplies would force an evacuation of the fort within four to six weeks. Lincoln decided against any immediate attempt to save the fort. On March 12, however, he issued orders for the reinforcement of Fort Pickens. More accessible to the Federal navy because of its location outside Pensacola Harbor beyond the range of Confederate artillery, Fort Pickens had the additional advantage of being overshadowed in the public consciousness by Fort Sumter, a highly charged symbol of Federal resolve in the state that had started secession. Presumably, it could be reinforced with less risk of precipitating a war than could Fort Sumter.
Lincolns initial decision not to act on Fort Sumter was also a concession to William H. Seward, his secretary of state. Seward was the chief spokesman for what was called the policy of "masterly inactivity." He believed that Unionists in the upper South were on the verge of leading a process of voluntary reunion. If the upper South were not stampeded into joining the Confederacy by a coercive act by the Republicans, Seward argued, an isolated Confederacy would soon have no choice but to bargain to rejoin the Union. Everything depended, of course, on a conciliatory Republican policy.
In pursuing this strategy, Lincoln temporarily considered a withdrawal from Fort Sumter in exchange for a binding commitment from the upper South not to leave the Union. Seward then made the mistake of assuming that evacuation was a foregone conclusion. He was conducting informal negotiations with three Confederate commissioners who were in Washington seeking a transfer of Fort Pickens and Fort Sumter. On March 15 he informed them through an intermediary to expect a speedy evacuation of Fort Sumter. When no such evacuation was forthcoming, Confederate leaders felt betrayed, and they vowed never again to trust the word of the Lincoln administration.
Mounting demands in the North to take a stand at Fort Sumter, combined with Lincolns growing disillusionment over Southern Unionism, convinced the president that he would have to challenge the Confederacy over the issue of Fort Sumter. On March 29 he told his cabinet that he was preparing a relief expedition. He delayed informing Major Anderson of that decision until after a meeting on April 4 with John Baldwin, a Virginia Unionist. Although no firsthand account of this meeting exists, the discussion apparently confirmed Lincolns belief that the upper South could not broker a voluntary reunion on terms acceptable to the Republican party. The final orders for the relief expedition were issued on April 6, the day that Lincoln learned that Fort Pickens had not yet been reinforced because of a mix-up in the chain of command.
News of Lincolns decision to reinforce Fort Sumter "with provisions only" reached Montgomery, the Confederate capital, on April 8. 7 Apr being when Ole PT cut off market food to the fort leaving Anderson to say that they would be starved out by the 15thThe next day Davis ordered Gen. P G. T. Beauregard, the Confederate commander at Charleston, to demand an immediate surrender of the fort. If Major Anderson refused, Beauregard was to attack the fort. Davis always felt that war was inevitable,and decided to start one and for months the most radical of the secessionists had been insisting that a military confrontation would be necessary to force the upper South into secession.because a lot had not voted to secede until after the war started Davis was convinced that he had no alternative but to counter Lincolns move with a show of force. because turning back the relief wouldn't start a war as firing on ships hadnt in the prior 6 months
Confederate batteries opened fire on Fort Sumter on April 12, and the fort surrendered two days later On April 15 Lincoln issued a call for seventy-five thousand stare militia to put down what he described as an insurrection against lawful authority. It was this call for troops, and not just the armed clash at Fort Sumter, that specifically triggered secession in the upper South. The Unionist majorities there suddenly dissolved once the choice shifted from supporting the Union or the Confederacy to fighting for or against fellow Southerners.
And this link has some information that is not easily found in history books, and is annotated as to sources. It's worth reading unless the truth is scary. :tooth:
Varmintmist wrote: »
With his father serving the federal govt against any states uprising with armed troops.
snake284 wrote: »
For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
alphasigmookie wrote: »
I find this current trend towards the erasure of history disturbing. Much of it stems from the application of current social/moral norms to historical figures who lived in times with different norms. I don't think that is at all productive or useful. And strikes my as downright reckless and dangerous. It needs to stop.
bullsi1911 wrote: »
This is the same thing ISIS is doing in the middle east with destroying cultural artifacts. They do not fit in with their narrow and bigoted worldview, so they destroy them
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