We all have different sets of circumstances that define our home defense requirements so some self anointed expert claiming "_______is the best thing and what everyone should use" is just presumptuous and stupid. Zee has a long house with his children on the far end so he wants his rounds to stop before they get there, we have horses that could be anywhere in a pasture next to the house so we want rounds that lose energy very quickly, and so on. Regardless of whatever any self appointed experts on here suggest, I know what I'm using and I just have to say that I've always wanted an AUG and the thought of owning one with a can makes me moist.
I thought only dope dealers used pit bulls as a defensive weapon, and doesn't a pup have to grow up and be abused before it's much of a threat? Now as for that funny looking firearm, what sort of idiot puts the chamber at approximately the shooter's cheek, and the muzzle blast about a foot from his ears?
:uhm:
Jerry
Actually no. You can have a loving animal that will defend your family without abusing it. Some breeds have a natural tendency to do it from birth and need NO training to do it. To me, anyone that would abuse an animal, would do it to a human as well and really needs to assume room temperature. And it doesn't need to be large, just vocal. I call them biological creep alarms.
My question is how long (overall length) is this wunderweapon? The AUG by itself if 28.15, add the can and it has to be close to 3 feet at least. I personally agree with Horselips. Unless it's a static situation, long guns suck inside a dwelling. If you have to venture out for loved ones, you have no extra hands and the weapon arrives in the room LONG before you do. I'll keep my pistol/flashlight handy.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill
Great discussion! Now I'm shopping for a forend light.........
Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
Steyr AUG uses proprietary Steyr magazines, so that's a deal breaker for me.
The Tavor accomplishes the same concept and uses M16 magazines.
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
Magpul makes mags for it at 19.00 apiece so that's a non-issue. The aug is better looking and has very little plastic in it.
Also has a smaller charging handle closer to the 1913 top rail and the rail is not provisioned for optics and a set of back up sights conveniently.
The trigger is worse than a Tavor and has no aftermarket trigger pack replacements like the IWI rifles do (i.e. Geissele).
The Steyr is a good rifle, just not as convenient as modern bullpups and still inferior to normal carbines. A 10.5" SBR isn't any longer and the gun, stamp, 10 magazines and 1000 rounds of ammo for the cost of the AUG alone.
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
I prescribe to the "do what you want" philosophy with guns, but when the benefits aren't outweighed on either side of the argument I'm inclined to defer to less expensive and well-supported weapon platforms.
But $1500 is a decent price for an AUG.
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
Also has a smaller charging handle closer to the 1913 top rail and the rail is not provisioned for optics and a set of back up sights conveniently.
The trigger is worse than a Tavor and has no aftermarket trigger pack replacements like the IWI rifles do (i.e. Geissele).
The Steyr is a good rifle, just not as convenient as modern bullpups and still inferior to normal carbines. A 10.5" SBR isn't any longer and the gun, stamp, 10 magazines and 1000 rounds of ammo for the cost of the AUG alone.
I agree with all of that but there's lots of stuff in my safe that isn't practical so one more is no big deal. I've handled and shot one quite a bit and fell in lust with one back when they cost only slightly more than an AR. In the late 80's they were only about a hundred bucks more than an AR.
My primary HD is a 12 gauge with a 10 round magazine and a red dot sight with laser. I keep a magazine loaded with segmented slugs handy . . . My house is concrete block with plaster interior walls and the slug fragments on impact so over penetration shouldn't be an issue.
You might want to do some testing on that theory, sacrificing some scrap drywall and cheap cinder blocks on the altar of Science. The Winchester segmented slugs, like most hollowpoint-type ammo, is designed to do it's thing in a "wet" target. On hard barriers, the nose cavities will often collapse inward or plug up, and you're back to solid projectile characteristics again. Winchester actually had that in mind when they cooked it up so cops could deal with barricaded crooks in cars and such, but got the fragmentation on a "naked" threat.
I expect you'll be good with cinderblock, and the soft lead slugs will likely pancake while making a crater on one side - or at least will have very little gas left on the other side - but I've got doubts about it breaking up in plaster. At any rate, there's no low recoil version I'm aware of, so each third of that slug is about equivalent to a 147 grain 9mm pistol bullet. . .but steaming along at .357 Magnum velocities. Great round for police work, but you might want to "homework it out" a little before using it as the household primary.
At your 20 foot max range, the pellets of Federal buck loads using their Flight Control wads rounds will still be just starting to come out of the wad cup, so they essentially behave like a segmented slug at that distance, but "break up" into smaller portions (60 grains for 00, obviously less for smaller), and they start out a little slower - around 1200 fps. Might be a better plan for your neighbor concerns.
At your 20 foot max range, the pellets of Federal buck loads using their Flight Control wads rounds will still be just starting to come out of the wad cup, so they essentially behave like a segmented slug at that distance, but "break up" into smaller portions (60 grains for 00, obviously less for smaller), and they start out a little slower - around 1200 fps. Might be a better plan for your neighbor concerns.
I love Federal Low Recoil Flight Control in both 00 (9 pellets) and 4 (34 pellets) buck. That shot cup makes a huge difference out of my old Benelli M1S90 w/ 18.5" barrel and IC choke I patterned it at 10 yards (which is about the longest shot I could possibly have inside my house) and the 9 pellet 00 spread is under 3" not counting the wad and the 4 is holds pretty close to that with a couple of the pellets occasionally flying out slightly. Obviously other shotguns will vary depending on their specs but the Flight Control wad is remarkable to me. The 4 I believe would be nastier as far as a jagged hole on soft targets and while I would not be cheap on ammo a single center mass hit from either the 00 or 4 at HD distances would likely be needed.
“The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
- George Orwell
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Replies
:grouphug:
https://silencerco.com/silencers/salvo-12/
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
This ones been fun and informative.
BTW, How many grains does 00 buck weigh?
34.5 oz- 6-12 inches long and $999 :down:
They are loaded with slugs and positioned in places where I may be required to shoot through a barrier.
Doors.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Yeah. Funny story about that.
I'm in a cave, in the dark, some time late at night. Haven't slept for a few days. I'm hungry and glad to finally be able to enjoy a cold MRE.
Opening and preparing my meal in the dark, I tear open and sprinkle salt on "bread" patty id covered with a stew of sorts.
Take me a bite of what tastes like crap. Just to find out I'd sprinkled the desi pack on my meal.
Actually no. You can have a loving animal that will defend your family without abusing it. Some breeds have a natural tendency to do it from birth and need NO training to do it. To me, anyone that would abuse an animal, would do it to a human as well and really needs to assume room temperature. And it doesn't need to be large, just vocal. I call them biological creep alarms.
My question is how long (overall length) is this wunderweapon? The AUG by itself if 28.15, add the can and it has to be close to 3 feet at least. I personally agree with Horselips. Unless it's a static situation, long guns suck inside a dwelling. If you have to venture out for loved ones, you have no extra hands and the weapon arrives in the room LONG before you do. I'll keep my pistol/flashlight handy.
Winston Churchill
The Tavor accomplishes the same concept and uses M16 magazines.
You know? You might just have hit on just the thing to make javelina palatable!
Magpul makes mags for it at 19.00 apiece so that's a non-issue. The aug is better looking and has very little plastic in it.
Also has a smaller charging handle closer to the 1913 top rail and the rail is not provisioned for optics and a set of back up sights conveniently.
The trigger is worse than a Tavor and has no aftermarket trigger pack replacements like the IWI rifles do (i.e. Geissele).
The Steyr is a good rifle, just not as convenient as modern bullpups and still inferior to normal carbines. A 10.5" SBR isn't any longer and the gun, stamp, 10 magazines and 1000 rounds of ammo for the cost of the AUG alone.
But $1500 is a decent price for an AUG.
I agree with all of that but there's lots of stuff in my safe that isn't practical so one more is no big deal. I've handled and shot one quite a bit and fell in lust with one back when they cost only slightly more than an AR. In the late 80's they were only about a hundred bucks more than an AR.
You might want to do some testing on that theory, sacrificing some scrap drywall and cheap cinder blocks on the altar of Science. The Winchester segmented slugs, like most hollowpoint-type ammo, is designed to do it's thing in a "wet" target. On hard barriers, the nose cavities will often collapse inward or plug up, and you're back to solid projectile characteristics again. Winchester actually had that in mind when they cooked it up so cops could deal with barricaded crooks in cars and such, but got the fragmentation on a "naked" threat.
I expect you'll be good with cinderblock, and the soft lead slugs will likely pancake while making a crater on one side - or at least will have very little gas left on the other side - but I've got doubts about it breaking up in plaster. At any rate, there's no low recoil version I'm aware of, so each third of that slug is about equivalent to a 147 grain 9mm pistol bullet. . .but steaming along at .357 Magnum velocities. Great round for police work, but you might want to "homework it out" a little before using it as the household primary.
At your 20 foot max range, the pellets of Federal buck loads using their Flight Control wads rounds will still be just starting to come out of the wad cup, so they essentially behave like a segmented slug at that distance, but "break up" into smaller portions (60 grains for 00, obviously less for smaller), and they start out a little slower - around 1200 fps. Might be a better plan for your neighbor concerns.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
I love Federal Low Recoil Flight Control in both 00 (9 pellets) and 4 (34 pellets) buck. That shot cup makes a huge difference out of my old Benelli M1S90 w/ 18.5" barrel and IC choke I patterned it at 10 yards (which is about the longest shot I could possibly have inside my house) and the 9 pellet 00 spread is under 3" not counting the wad and the 4 is holds pretty close to that with a couple of the pellets occasionally flying out slightly. Obviously other shotguns will vary depending on their specs but the Flight Control wad is remarkable to me. The 4 I believe would be nastier as far as a jagged hole on soft targets and while I would not be cheap on ammo a single center mass hit from either the 00 or 4 at HD distances would likely be needed.
- George Orwell