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cpj, who made that barrel on your big .223?

snake284snake284 Senior MemberPosts: 22,387 Senior Member
Also, what's the specs on it? I don't mean twist just diameter, profile and length.

I'm laying plans for my Long Range .270. I'm thinking of putting it on my commercial Mauser action. If so, I will neck down a .284 case. I have also thought about necking down a 7 Mag case. If I do that, I'll look around for a good used Savage Magnum, either a 7 Mag, or 300 Win. Mag. I would also consider a short mag action of some sort. I just want a short action or shorter action than the standard .270 Winchester. If I use the commercial Mauser action I will probably need to trim the feed rails a little because the .284 case is a bit larger in diameter than the standard Winchester case. Any advice on this would be muchly appreciated. It would be nice to just find an action that was made for a .284 case. Then I could just have a Krieger barrel made and short chambered and threaded for the action of my choice in a 28 inch length.

One thing cpj, I want the barrel about the same contour as yours.

If I get this thing built as I've got it in my mind, then all I'll have to do is find me a place to shoot 500 yards +.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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Replies

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Use a Remington 700 tube steak action. They're cheap, and like belly buttons, everybody's got one, so there's plenty of upgrade parts (which it needs desperately, BTW). Sort of like a small block Chevy- - - - cheap, mediocre, but it's got potential if you spend lots of money on it.
    Jerry
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    And all the talk of adjusting feed rails, or any magazine related issues...forget them. You'll have a 15 pound plus rifle. A single shot will be just fine.

    Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of using another action. I can save the classic action and do it with a Savage or Remington. I will see. But one thing about the commercial action, it's already got a Timney trigger and safety, drilled and tapped for scope, in fact it has a base mount on it already, and the bolt's already bent. All it needs is a barrel screwed in and chambered. My gun smith trues everything up when he installs a barrel.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of using another action. I can save the classic action and do it with a Savage or Remington. I will see. But one thing about the commercial action, it's already got a Timney trigger and safety, drilled and tapped for scope, in fact it has a base mount on it already, and the bolt's already bent. All it needs is a barrel screwed in and chambered. My gun smith trues everything up when he installs a barrel.
    Yep. That is the way to go. Don't overlook those Howa/Weatherby Vanguards either. The barrels are a son of a gun to get off, but Jerry has the solution for that. Those Vanguards in .300 Weatherby are true magnum length too. You could do a .270 STW/.270-8mm mag or if you want to get really crazy, a .270/375 Ruger or a .270 RUM with that long action. A .270 WSM would be nice if you could find one of those for cheap-- or any of those WSM's for that matter since you are installing a new barrel. All you really need is the right bolt face to make things easier.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    270's are kinda like F-4's- - - - - - -"With enough thrust you can fly a brick!" Put enough powder behind a .277" bullet and it will probably penetrate a watermelon at 50 yards!
    Jerry
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 24,635 Senior Member
    Leave F-4's outa this!

    A max performance T/O in one is almost as much fun as coming off a carrier in a sky pig. [EA-6B]

    Either way your set back in the seat.
    Shut up-----KAREN; OK Cynthia
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Yep. That is the way to go. Don't overlook those Howa/Weatherby Vanguards either. The barrels are a son of a gun to get off, but Jerry has the solution for that. Those Vanguards in .300 Weatherby are true magnum length too. You could do a .270 STW/.270-8mm mag or if you want to get really crazy, a .270/375 Ruger or a .270 RUM with that long action. A .270 WSM would be nice if you could find one of those for cheap-- or any of those WSM's for that matter since you are installing a new barrel. All you really need is the right bolt face to make things easier.

    I love Howa, Remington, Savage. But the problem is how much better is it? I have the Mauser and it's long enough for the .284 case. True that dude up and screw a barrel in. What's to gain with a more modern action? Give me good reasons to spend more money and I will do it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,747 Senior Member
    Well, for one thing, you don't build a precision rifle on a controlled feed action. For that, you want a push feed. For Long Range, you really don't need, or want, a repeater action, but if you must then a Remington 700 is pretty much the go to donor action. There are a lot of aftermarket parts that will work fine with it.

    I question the reasoning behind the choice of the .277 caliber mainly due to the dearth of adequate LR bullets. Even if there is one, I would hate to build a rifle with the hope that this single bullet would work in it. If it doesn't plan B is to dump the new barrel and get something else.

    As for a 500+ yard range, you need to come to my neck of the woods for a visit sometime, we go to 1000 yards. You would have fun.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I love Howa, Remington, Savage. But the problem is how much better is it? I have the Mauser and it's long enough for the .284 case. True that dude up and screw a barrel in. What's to gain with a more modern action? Give me good reasons to spend more money and I will do it.

    Why are you stuck on the .284 case? If you are serious spend the money on a different action and do it right.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    I just double checked myself, I was correct. You gain absolutely nothing, no one single FPS, using the .284. So why?
    Use a case with enough capacity to make this interesting. Your current idea has all the sex appeal of Oprah.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Why are you stuck on the .284 case? If you are serious spend the money on a different action and do it right.

    I'm not stuck on the .284, but for what I want to do it is a good choice. It gives me 06 capacity in a short action. I may go with a 7 Mag case. Just depends. I've also been considering the 7mm Short Mag case.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I love Howa, Remington, Savage. But the problem is how much better is it? I have the Mauser and it's long enough for the .284 case. True that dude up and screw a barrel in. What's to gain with a more modern action? Give me good reasons to spend more money and I will do it.
    My line of thinking is that after taking the time and money involved to get the Mauser action where you want it to be, it would have been faster, cheaper, and easier to use the commercial action. They make that real easy with a Remington 700 action. Basically it is just a matter of truing up the action and dropping in the trigger of choice and you are done. You should have a half decent informal target rifle. Plus there is a multitude of off the shelf stocks that are available.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,747 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I'm not stuck on the .284, but for what I want to do it is a good choice. It gives me 06 capacity in a short action. I may go with a 7 Mag case. Just depends. I've also been considering the 7mm Short Mag case.

    There's nothing wrong with the .284 case and actually a lot going for it. For one thing, it's a short action as you say and for another, of all the wide range of cases available, the F-Open crowd has coalesced around the .284 and some variations of it. There must be something to it. Also, it's available as virgin brass from Lapua (6.5-284) and Norma (.284), which is a huge plus for those competitors. I know of very few competitors who have adopted any magnum cartridge and the ones that I do know who have, well they went with the 300WSM to use the big 30 caliber high BC bullets. Staying under 22 pounds for a rifle that shoots these big heavy bullets is punishing at the end of a day of competition.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,569 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I'm not stuck on the .284, but for what I want to do it is a good choice. It gives me 06 capacity in a short action. I may go with a 7 Mag case. Just depends. I've also been considering the 7mm Short Mag case.

    You might want to do some pondering on that. 284 is juuuussssst short enough for a short action. With long, heavy bullets, seated long, it doesn't work well. My BR rifle is a 6.5-284, on a Savage target action. My handloads barely fit through the port, and it's really fun getting an unfired one back out.

    Also, belted mag cases are a pretty poor choice for a BR rifle. Headspacing on the belt isn't necessarily conducive to BR accuracy.

    A .277WSM might be a cool BR rifle. Or, a .277x51.

    Whatever you decide, I'd look at stocks before you decide on an action. Make sure you can get a stock you like, for the action you choose, before you tear a rifle apart.
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,031 Senior Member
    Mike,

    What's the plan with this rifle/caliber combo beside long range shooting. Shooting what and out to how far? Is this for hunting, steel, paper punching? While the .270 is fine caliber it doesn't scream long range shooting to me. Can they be used for long range shooting, absolutely, depending on your needs and requirement. The one big negative is you have a very limited bullet library of types and weights to chose from. Not beating you up on this just trying to understand. Lots of other calibers really designed for long range applications with great bullet libraries.

    A good g-smith who really his his Mauser actions can do make them into a very accurate foundation for an accurate rifle. As some have already said it could be cheaper and easier to go with a Howa, Rem 700 or Savage action for the build. Best of luck on this project my friend!
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Jbohio made me remember something, .284 based stuff is better in a long action. My Savage 6.5x284 is a model 111. Everything just fits better.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Jeff in TX wrote: »
    Mike,

    What's the plan with this rifle/caliber combo beside long range shooting. Shooting what and out to how far? Is this for hunting, steel, paper punching? While the .270 is fine caliber it doesn't scream long range shooting to me. Can they be used for long range shooting, absolutely, depending on your needs and requirement. The one big negative is you have a very limited bullet library of types and weights to chose from. Not beating you up on this just trying to understand. Lots of other calibers really designed for long range applications with great bullet libraries.
    We discussed that at the SE Shoot.... Purpose? Informal target shooting at a distance. Why .270? While there are bullet limitations, it would be suitable for the frail and little girls. But seriously... it is one of those why the hell not things. He is doing just because he can, and quite frankly that is just as good excuse as any to build a rifle. I can't argue with that logic!
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    We discussed that at the SE Shoot.... Purpose? Informal target shooting at a distance. Why .270? While there are bullet limitations, it would be suitable for the frail and little girls. But seriously... it is one of those why the hell not things. He is doing just because he can, and quite frankly that is just as good excuse as any to build a rifle. I can't argue with that logic!

    Also it less painful to just bash your head into a cinder block wall than try and talk snake out of a .277 bore. We have been there.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    We discussed that at the SE Shoot.... Purpose? Informal target shooting at a distance. Why .270? While there are bullet limitations, it would be suitable for the frail and little girls. But seriously... it is one of those why the hell not things. He is doing just because he can, and quite frankly that is just as good excuse as any to build a rifle. I can't argue with that logic!

    Thanks Jeremy, that answer is spot on.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Also it less painful to just bash your head into a cinder block wall than try and talk snake out of a .277 bore. We have been there.

    Matrix is making 175 grain bullets for it and somebody is making match grade barrels i 1:8 twist. Actually you could always get barrels because you pay custom barrel makers they'll make you a 1 in 5 twist iffin you so desire.

    Bullets and barrels have always been the .270's limitation in the uber long range department. It's always been a fine hunting caliber with 130 grain bullets in a 1:10 barrel. Out to 400-500 yards it's as good as anything else. But this puts it in new territory only visited certain ex military and match rifle cartridges.

    But the only reason I want to do this is just to show it can be done and for fun.

    Also, I have about decided to go for the gold and try to find a something short mag that already has the right feed rails and the right length action for the short mag case and build it in .270 Short mag. thanks to the enablement of Farm Boy and a couple others.

    That leaves my commercial Mauser open for something else I've kicked around for years, the 6.5x55 Swede. I've secretly lusted for one for years, not to shoot into the next zip code, but just to build another fine hunting rifle in a classic cartridge. Once in a year Remington was chambering their 700 in classic cartridges they were offering it in 6.5x55 and I almost bit on it, but opted for something else. And until now there's just been too much BS in my head to build one.

    When I do build that one it will be just a plain jane hunting rifle with a 24 inch blue barrel with mil spec barrel twist, in a nice satin finished Boyd stock. I might even send it off to get checkered. If you see Big Al's stock on his .284, it will give you orgasms. That's the style stock I want and the type checkering.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Snake, do NOT use that commercial 98 for this (FN I'm assuming?) DO NOT USE IT. Use that Mauser for a proper Mauser hunting gun. The 6.5x55 would be great, or the 6.5x57 if you want to be a little different. Go to Lothar Walther barrels and order one up. Heck they've probably got one in stock ready to be finish chambered in a few different contours.

    The 270 WSM is already a thing....I mean if you want to use the 7mm WSM case to eek out another 50fps by all means go ahead, but the custom reamer and dies for 50 fps is silly even in my book.

    If you want to use the 284 case, you'll want either a Savage or Winchester, they both have longer than standard "short action" magazines. The Win is 3.1" and actually might be a smidgen longer, same length as a Yugo. Savage have pretty generous boxes, too. You can modify a Rem 700 SA with a Wyatt's box, but I've rarely read anything good about going that way.

    Not sure on the Howa/Vanguard SA magazines, they DO chamber the WSM family which usually comes out a bit longer then 2.8....but I'm unsure.

    OR....leave it as a single shot and then it doesn't really matter about the magazine anyways, so use what you find cheapest firsts.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Snake, do NOT use that commercial 98 for this (FN I'm assuming?) DO NOT USE IT. Use that Mauser for a proper Mauser hunting gun. The 6.5x55 would be great, or the 6.5x57 if you want to be a little different. Go to Lothar Walther barrels and order one up. Heck they've probably got one in stock ready to be finish chambered in a few different contours.

    The 270 WSM is already a thing....I mean if you want to use the 7mm WSM case to eek out another 50fps by all means go ahead, but the custom reamer and dies for 50 fps is silly even in my book.

    If you want to use the 284 case, you'll want either a Savage or Winchester, they both have longer than standard "short action" magazines. The Win is 3.1" and actually might be a smidgen longer, same length as a Yugo. Savage have pretty generous boxes, too. You can modify a Rem 700 SA with a Wyatt's box, but I've rarely read anything good about going that way.

    Not sure on the Howa/Vanguard SA magazines, they DO chamber the WSM family which usually comes out a bit longer then 2.8....but I'm unsure.

    OR....leave it as a single shot and then it doesn't really matter about the magazine anyways, so use what you find cheapest firsts.

    MHS, re-read my above post. That's what I want to do, use the commercial Mauser action to build a 6.5x55. I do like the idea of the .270 WSM. But what I build will have a much fatter, longer barrel, if I do indeed build it as a WSM.

    One thing I have thought about is using my present .270. But if I do, it will be rebarreled with a tighter twist and fatter contour. I would even use the old stock. It's pillar bedded. I'd have to modify the bedding a little to make it fit the new barrel, but that won't be a big deal. The only problem with this plan is I really would prefer to leave my .270 as is. It's a sweet hunting rifle as is.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,569 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »

    One thing I have thought about is using my present .270. But if I do, it will be rebarreled with a tighter twist and fatter contour. I would even use the old stock. It's pillar bedded. I'd have to modify the bedding a little to make it fit the new barrel, but that won't be a big deal. The only problem with this plan is I really would prefer to leave my .270 as is. It's a sweet hunting rifle as is.
    You drinking again? :silly::silly::silly:
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,747 Senior Member
    Snake, do NOT use that commercial 98 for this (FN I'm assuming?) DO NOT USE IT. Use that Mauser for a proper Mauser hunting gun. The 6.5x55 would be great, or the 6.5x57 if you want to be a little different. Go to Lothar Walther barrels and order one up. Heck they've probably got one in stock ready to be finish chambered in a few different contours.
    (snip)

    Oh please. Lothar Walther is barely one step up from a factory barrel. They are a tier three barrelmaker at best, something you do not want on a rifle you are building up to be a long range precision shooter. Lothar Walther is right down there with Douglas barrels.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,747 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Well, he wasn't suggesting it for a precision shooter. He was suggesting for a hunting rifle.

    Oh, my bad. Lothar Walther barrels are "fine" for hunting accuracy. I was navigating under the impression that Snake was building a precision LR shooter, albeit in .277 caliber. (First time I've ever seen "long range precision" and "277" in the same sentence without a negation, of course, it's a dream.)
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,801 Senior Member
    Pegasus wrote: »
    Oh, my bad. Lothar Walther barrels are "fine" for hunting accuracy. I was navigating under the impression that Snake was building a precision LR shooter, albeit in .277 caliber. (First time I've ever seen "long range precision" and "277" in the same sentence without a negation, of course, it's a dream.)

    Reading comprehension, i know its tricky. Although reading the whole post and commenting would slow down your chances of reminding everyone how superior you are to us mere mortals, it keeps you from saying something dumb. Notice I said go Rem or Savage for his long range, use the mauser for a hunting build.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,532 Senior Member
    Reading comprehension, i know its tricky. Although reading the whole post and commenting would slow down your chances of reminding everyone how superior you are to us mere mortals, it keeps you from saying something dumb. Notice I said go Rem or Savage for his long range, use the mauser for a hunting build.

    1858E318-057E-4278-A523-B6B9D012F155_zpsf8hgsgvk.gif
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,536 Senior Member
    Old pal of mine built a tremendously accurate and consistent LR rig by mating a Savage action to a Douglas stainless barrel reamed for 6.5x284. He still uses it to this day some 10 years later.

    Modern precision manufacturing equipment is zapping the voodoo out of quality barrel making.

    The machines necessary for accurate deep hole drilling and subsequent rifling are easier to come by. A lot of "hand lapping" operations are being done by reciprocating machines under he watchful eye of an attendant.

    I have no doubt Krieger, Bartlein, Brux, and all those companies make fine barrels. But companies like Proof Research who barely have a human hand touch the manufacturing process make barrels winning competition.

    Of course, I'm just a dude who's more than happy with 1/2 MOA at any distance. Then again I'm also not vying for any "king of the paper puncher" awards either.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Pegasus wrote: »
    Well, for one thing, you don't build a precision rifle on a controlled feed action. For that, you want a push feed. For Long Range, you really don't need, or want, a repeater action, but if you must then a Remington 700 is pretty much the go to donor action. There are a lot of aftermarket parts that will work fine with it.

    I question the reasoning behind the choice of the .277 caliber mainly due to the dearth of adequate LR bullets. Even if there is one, I would hate to build a rifle with the hope that this single bullet would work in it. If it doesn't plan B is to dump the new barrel and get something else.

    As for a 500+ yard range, you need to come to my neck of the woods for a visit sometime, we go to 1000 yards. You would have fun.

    Pegasus, you're missing the point. I want to do it just because and to prove to whoever that whether the diameter is .277, .284, .264, or .308, makes not a damn bit of difference. The bullet and the barrel are the difference. Also, Matrix isn't the only one making high BC bullets, Berger makes a High BC bullet for .277. There's more people making them now and I'll find one load that works.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Jbohio made me remember something, .284 based stuff is better in a long acti.on. My Savage 6.5x284 is a model 111. Everything just fits better.

    Yes, That was my thinking with the Commercial Mauser. But I'm thinking medium or long Savage or Remington. All this got me to thinking about what I've seen said on here and I was believing it myself, but it ain't true. That is the Remington 700 comes in only two action lengths, short and long. Long being 06 length and also long enough for the 7 mag length family. The Remington 700 comes in three lengths. The 7 mag and .300 Win Mag. are built on the same length action as an 06. But when they came out with the 8mm Remington Mag. and later the 7mm and .300 Remington Ultra Mags they built longer actions than what they had called their long action. I'm not sure but I'm thinking the old war horses, .375 H&H and .300 H&H used this long action too, but I'm not sure of that.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    You drinking again? :silly::silly::silly:

    Nope I was for about 10 months but quit again April 11th. That's my new sobriety date. Nope all this is cold sober thinking.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
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