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Danger! Danger! President Trump. An obvious political trap.

sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior MemberPosts: 1,933 Senior Member
I was horrified when President Trump was goaded into agreeing "100%" to testify under oath. President William Jefferson Clinton was impeached for lying under oath (perjury. Which can be a felony under federal law.) not his total lack of moral judgment. President Trump has painted himself into a dangerous political corner. He has been confirmed as not being under investigation much less charged with anything. If he testifies under oath he could be tricked into stating something less than truthful. If he declines to testify he will be seen as waffling because he is hiding something. Lose Lose. The Dems will stop at nothing to bring him down. I see now they are going for obstruction of justice although Comey stated nothing President Trump said to him was chargeable for that crime .
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Replies

  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    sgtrock21 wrote: »
    I was horrified when President Trump was goaded into agreeing "100%" to testify under oath. President William Jefferson Clinton was impeached for lying under oath (perjury. Which can be a felony under federal law.) not his total lack of moral judgment. President Trump has painted himself into a dangerous political corner. He has been confirmed as not being under investigation much less charged with anything. If he testifies under oath he could be tricked into stating something less than truthful. If he declines to testify he will be seen as waffling because he is hiding something. Lose Lose. The Dems will stop at nothing to bring him down. I see now they are going for obstruction of justice although Comey stated nothing President Trump said to him was chargeable for that crime .

    Tricked into lying? How does that work? I think you're afraid he'll be "tricked" into telling the truth.

    Three options:

    1) Tell the truth
    2) Lie
    3) Decline to answer
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    I don't think Trump was "goaded" either. If it is a trap, it is one that he fabricated himself. Aside from that, we already know he is rather loose with the truth. Lying for him is like breathing is to the rest of us.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Dr. dbDr. db Senior Member Posts: 1,541 Senior Member
    Never under estimate the tendency of this administration to engage in circular firing squad behavior.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    Suggesting that there are tapes was not brilliant, either.

    I don't want to live through another pitched battle to get White House recordings released. Watergate was painful enough, without that nauseating drama.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    I think this is a whole lot of a lot about nothing. And now it has been pointed out that Mueller is not proper for this job. He and Comey are friends and have been seen on TV joking and grabbing ass. He definitely has issues of conflict of interest being Comey's personal friend. He needs to be dismissed from this job of special investigator. I don't think Trump needs to say anything. Comey already said he wasn't being investigated. This is TRULY a Witch Hunt of major proportions.

    Also, I don't think Trump is so much a liar but he has Piss Poor Communication Skills. He's a man of action and when he tries to use more than 3 words in a sentence he comes off as a liar or an idiot. He's no idiot but he can do a hell of an impersonation as one.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I think this is a whole lot of a lot about nothing. And now it has been pointed out that Mueller is not proper for this job. He and Comey are friends and have been seen on TV joking and grabbing ass. He definitely has issues of conflict of interest being Comey's personal friend. He needs to be dismissed from this job of special investigator. I don't think Trump needs to say anything. Comey already said he wasn't being investigated. This is TRULY a Witch Hunt of major proportions.

    Also, I don't think Trump is so much a liar but he has Piss Poor Communication Skills. He's a man of action and when he tries to use more than 3 words in a sentence he comes off as a liar or an idiot. He's no idiot but he can do a hell of an impersonation as one.
    Remember... Comey is not under investigation. Trump wasn't either until he fired Comey, then out of the blue for absolutely no smart reason blabs that he fired Comey in order to take the heat off regarding the Russia investigation (obstructing justice).

    Trump communicates just fine. He communicates too much for his own good is the problem. He won't stop communicating. He needs to shut the up for once.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Trump communicates just fine. He communicates too much for his own good is the problem. He won't stop communicating. He needs to shut the up for once.

    IMG_0307_zpsjtdi0w1a.jpg

    Now if somebody could just beat it into his thick skull ... he's as bull headed as Hildabeast when it comes to listening ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Remember... Comey is not under investigation. Trump wasn't either until he fired Comey, then out of the blue for absolutely no smart reason blabs that he fired Comey in order to take the heat off regarding the Russia investigation (obstructing justice).

    Trump communicates just fine. He communicates too much for his own good is the problem. He won't stop communicating. He needs to shut the up for once.

    My favorite liberal Harvard law professor, Alan Dershowitz, says:

    “Well first of all, let’s look at the big constitutional picture,” Dershowitz said. “The president could have told Comey you are commanded, directed to block the prosecution against Flynn. The president has the right to do that. Comey acknowledges that. He says in the statement that historically, historically presidents have done that to the Justice Department. But in the last few years, we’ve had a tradition of separation.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/06/07/dershowitz-cannot-obstruction-justice-president-exercises-constitutional-authority/
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    My favorite liberal Harvard law professor, Alan Dershowitz, says:

    “Well first of all, let’s look at the big constitutional picture,” Dershowitz said. “The president could have told Comey you are commanded, directed to block the prosecution against Flynn. The president has the right to do that. Comey acknowledges that. He says in the statement that historically, historically presidents have done that to the Justice Department. But in the last few years, we’ve had a tradition of separation.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/06/07/dershowitz-cannot-obstruction-justice-president-exercises-constitutional-authority/
    That is all fine and dandy, but he fired Comey to block the Russia investigation in a deliberate effort to obstruct justice.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,645 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    That is all fine and dandy, but he fired Comey to block the Russia investigation in a deliberate effort to obstruct justice.

    Maybe he fired him because he shows no loyalty? I never liked Hilary, but still think Obama should have fired him after what he did to her.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    Maybe he fired him because he shows no loyalty? I never liked Hilary, but still think Obama should have fired him after what he did to her.
    Loyalty to the president is not in the FBI director's job description. Attorney general? I can agree with that. That is a cabinet position. FBI director is not. Besides, I am not the one blabbering my mouth that I fired him in an effort to quiet an investigation. Trump is.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Loyalty to the president is not in the FBI director's job description. Attorney general? I can agree with that. That is a cabinet position. FBI director is not. Besides, I am not the one blabbering my mouth that I fired him in an effort to quiet an investigation. Trump is.

    Damn ... another point nailed by the Jerm Man! Trump would never be able to pull off a SSS ... the ego or idiot gene is strong in the Orange One.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Tricked into lying? How does that work? I think you're afraid he'll be "tricked" into telling the truth.

    Three options:

    1) Tell the truth
    2) Lie
    3) Decline to answer
    4) Someone who suffers from a severe personality disorder or mental disorder who thinks they are actually telling the truth.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I think this is a whole lot of a lot about nothing. And now it has been pointed out that Mueller is not proper for this job. He and Comey are friends and have been seen on TV joking and grabbing ass. He definitely has issues of conflict of interest being Comey's personal friend. He needs to be dismissed from this job of special investigator. I don't think Trump needs to say anything. Comey already said he wasn't being investigated. This is TRULY a Witch Hunt of major proportions.

    Also, I don't think Trump is so much a liar but he has Piss Poor Communication Skills. He's a man of action and when he tries to use more than 3 words in a sentence he comes off as a liar or an idiot. He's no idiot but he can do a hell of an impersonation as one.
    He has never had to learn communication skills. If someone disagreed with him he simply fired them. He is an easy target for the Dems. Ask him if he would testify under oath? He sees that as a challenge and replies "hell yes 100%". They can read him like a book. He views or reads articles that he agrees with that could be truth or not and posts them on his incredibly stupid twitter account which legally documents them. He seems to not understand that POTUS is far from being above criticism when it has always been the biggest target.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    That is all fine and dandy, but he fired Comey to block the Russia investigation in a deliberate effort to obstruct justice.

    Trump was not being investigated. The guy who was being investigated has not been proven to have done anything illegal, according to Comey and all of the other former heads of all the other security agencies. How long can they investigate someone without finding a crime? Nobody likes Trump, so they can investigate until somebody slips up, like they did with Scooter Libby?

    What evidence do you have to assert that he's guilty of obstructing justice? Did you read Dershowitz? He is the kind of guy I assumed you would accept as a Constitutional scholar.

    I don't like being in the position of defending Donald Trump, but this whole thing is about nothing, as far as I can see. There is plenty of Russian collusion to be found, but it all took place before Trump took over, as far as I can tell.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    That is all fine and dandy, but he fired Comey to block the Russia investigation in a deliberate effort to obstruct justice.
    Is that sarcasm? If not. I would like to thank you "special investigator Mueller" for so quickly making a decision concerning this mess and saving so much time and money.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    It doesn't matter as long as left wing conspiracy is a saleable trump card.:popcorn:
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    sgtrock21 wrote: »
    Is that sarcasm?
    Not at all...
    http://www.npr.org/2017/06/14/532985377/report-trump-under-investigation-for-possible-obstruction-of-justice

    ... people can dismiss my link as a liberal fake news site if they wish, and I will suggest that they remove their head from their ass and try to get back to reality. It looks like Trump's mouth got him into some potentially deep crap this time.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,756 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Loyalty to the president is not in the FBI director's job description. Attorney general? I can agree with that. That is a cabinet position. FBI director is not. Besides, I am not the one blabbering my mouth that I fired him in an effort to quiet an investigation. Trump is.

    However...the bottom line is....When you serve at the pleasure of POTUS..he doesn't have to have a reason to fire you.....so if he had simply fired the guy and quit talking about why he did it...things would have been. Fine and dandy...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    Trump was well within his rights to fire Comey. The assistant attorney general even gave him cover to minimize the fallout from the firing. The problem is that as a narcissist, Trump couldn't let one of his underlings take the credit when he could have, so he decided to take the "glory" from his assistant AG and place it upon himself.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,850 Senior Member
    "It's a political trap"

    Really????

    Since he won the Republican nomination, when HASN'T he been in a political minefield with Dems, Libertarians and Independents waiting and hoping he steps on a "mine"????
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,535 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Tricked into lying? How does that work? I think you're afraid he'll be "tricked" into telling the truth.

    Three options:

    1) Tell the truth
    2) Lie
    3) Decline to answer

    He can't decline to answer under oath if he de facto waives his 5th Amendment right by answering questions under oath.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,535 Senior Member
    He's been lackluster at best on important gun issues so far, so my attention span for him is minimal right now. All these political dog and pony shows, for what? Who cares?

    Secure gun rights and the rest fall into place.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    The FBI said the Russian investigation was going forward with or without Comey. So firing Comey was not going to stop the investigation.

    Now go look for another straw to clutch at.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    The FBI said the Russian investigation was going forward with or without Comey. So firing Comey was not going to stop the investigation.

    Now go look for another straw to clutch at.
    Then maybe Trump should have realized that before he fired Comey. It would have saved him a lot of grief.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    He can't decline to answer under oath if he de facto waives his 5th Amendment right by answering questions under oath.

    Sure he can. Just don't answer.

    He may be compelled to answer legally speaking, but they aren't going to waterboard him.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    Maybe he fired him because he shows no loyalty? I never liked Hilary, but still think Obama should have fired him after what he did to her.

    Exactly!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,788 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Then maybe Trump should have realized that before he fired Comey. It would have saved him a lot of grief.

    True enough, but if one can put aside his dislike for Trump and simply look at the known facts, there should not be a special prosecutor. The evidence simply does not merit one...at least not yet.

    Rosenstein apparently acted prematurely because the articles being published in the NY Times and Washington Post looked bad, and the television media had a full court press on for obstruction of justice, based on Comey's leaked memo. In fact, the memo is unsubstantiated circumstantial evidence, even by Comey's own testimony before the Senate. And, Comey himself said that the NYT and WP articles were false.

    I have no problem with punishing anybody that broke the law, but an honest evaluation of what is publicly known is that there is no reason to keep dragging out an investigation that has gone on for months, without finding a single crime. Sure, there could be evidence that is not known, but it seems unlikely, with all the leaking that is being done.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I have no problem with punishing anybody that broke the law, but an honest evaluation of what is publicly known is that there is no reason to keep dragging out an investigation that has gone on for months, without finding a single crime. Sure, there could be evidence that is not known, but it seems unlikely, with all the leaking that is being done.
    What I am wondering is if what is publicly known is only the tip of the iceberg? A proper investigation takes time. Even Clinton's joke of an email investigation took a whole lot longer than this has so far. If these parties are innocent like they say, a thorough and proper investigation will reveal that. Obstructing, Tweeting anger, and trying to shut down the investigation will only fuel more public speculation that there really is something stinking in the White House. Trump needs to **** about the whole matter, and get on with the work of the people instead of keeping the whole matter in the headlines constantly. People voted for him to get stuff done, not stew and whine over his persecution.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Obstructing, Tweeting anger, and trying to shut down the investigation will only fuel more public speculation that there really is something stinking in the White House. Trump needs to **** about the whole matter, and get on with the work of the people instead of keeping the whole matter in the headlines constantly. People voted for him to get stuff done, not stew and whine over his persecution.

    I voted for Trump given the alternative, but I have to agree with you on this one. :up:
This discussion has been closed.
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