Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

I have a hunch

snake284snake284 Senior MemberPosts: 22,394 Senior Member
I was watching Fox's coverage of the FBI Director Nominee. When asked if he thought the ongoing investigations by Robert Mueller were a witch hunt he balked about three times and finally said, "Do I think the investigation by The independent investigator team is a witch hunt?" He answered, "I do not think Robert Mueller is conducting a witch hunt!" I think It's all a guise. I think Mueller knows there was no collusion. I think he's making a show to get the dogs off Trump and when the hand is played he will simply say, "We can find no evidence of Collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians.!"

The Democrats are just so full of hate and contempt for Trump for beating Hillary in the 2016 Presidential election they will do and say anything they can to try to bring Trump down. And all their investigating is proving for Not. They are frustrated and now see that Trump will not only serve out his first term, but will also probably get elected to a second term.

If the Republican law makers can get their act together and pass a good health care bill that people can truly afford, and won't break the country, and if they can somehow get a tax plan that will make it easy for people to do their taxes plus give them a tax cut, and also do something about the middle east and North Korea, I think Trump's a shoe in for not only this 4 years but 8 years and the democrats do too.

This is worrying them to no end. They cannot fathom an 8 year Republican term in the WH. And if this works out as Trump plans they may have another 4 years after that with one of the up and coming Republicans that backed Trump. This will give the conservatives an opportunity to stack the deck in the Federal Court system with level headed Traditionalist justices and turn the tide against socialism and government control. Then maybe we can do something about the education system that is indoctrinating our kids and grand kids giving this country at least another 100 years of life if not more. This is the lefts worst nightmare.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
«1

Replies

  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    I agree, the Republicans had better come up with a healthcare plan better than the failed ObamaCare plan and a Tax plan that doesn't unduly favor the wealthy or they'll be in big trouble next election. JMO
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,180 Senior Member
    This. So far neither of those things are looking good.

    So far, you're right. Entirely too much infighting in the GOP, too many RINOs on one hand, too many Bible beaters on the other - business as usual for the GOP.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,373 Senior Member
    Yup, The Republicans have it all right now. But there are a few Senator's and Gongress critters that seem to be playing for the other team. I believe because if The Clintons are ever honestly investigated Hillary will be prosecuted and convicted. It that happens several old timers from both parties will be dragged down with her. I believe the corruption runs deeply into both parties and that kind of a shake up will destroy our Nation as we know it.
    The answer is: Elect a non political person that we can spend all our time beating up and keep the real guilty people out of the limelight. Not to say that Mr Trump doesn't have his own issues. Heck, I said from the beginning delete his tweeter account and break his phone, to get him atleast a little.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,721 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »

    If the Republican law makers can get their act together and pass a good health care bill that people can truly afford, and won't break the country, and if they can somehow get a tax plan that will make it easy for people to do their taxes plus give them a tax cut, and also do something about the middle east and North Korea, I think Trump's a shoe in for not only this 4 years but 8 years and the democrats do too.
    Is that all.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,132 Senior Member
    I thought Kushner took care of all of that during his first week.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    too many Bible beaters on the other - business as usual for the GOP.

    Where are you getting this from? I don't see where religion has anything to do with the current political climate unless you're basing your views on our country being founded on Christian values. I suspect that the majority of members here and the majority of our countrie's population believe in Christian values and I don't see where those values have caused the deterioration of our society. If you see something that I don't, please elaborate. Does your obvious disdain for Christianity bias your ideas about our current political climate?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Where are you getting this from? I don't see where religion has anything to do with the current political climate unless you're basing your views on our country being founded on Christian values. I suspect that the majority of members here and the majority of our countrie's population believe in Christian values and I don't see where those values have caused the deterioration of our society. If you see something that I don't, please elaborate. Does your obvious disdain for Christianity bias your ideas about our current political climate?

    I think Zorby is thinking of ultra conservative types. A lot of them ARE Bible Thumpers as he calls them. I say they are bible believing Christians. But I know one thing for sure, they all need to get on the same page or we'll have a Dummycrap Majority in the House And Senate in 2019 and the last two years of Trump's term will be non productive guarantying nothing will get done and almost guarantying we have a Democrat in the White House next time around.

    If that happens there should be a special place in hell for their asses, I don't care if they're hard right conservatives or middle of the road Moderates. I know one thing, they aren't going to like what we end up with. We have a chance right now to make a big difference in this country. We need to take advantage of the opportunity or it will be all for naught.

    If they all get on the same page and we do some fundamental changes to our government we can make this world a better, safer place. But if they play their stupid games and cost us the House, Senate, and White House, we're Screwed.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,180 Senior Member
    So called "Christian values" come in two varieties: 1) what I call "universal ethics", which pre-date organized monotheism of ANY kind by millennia, and 2) Judeo-Christian-Islamic so called "morality" which are peculiar to Abrahamic religions and have nothing to do with ethics, nor our nation's founding. The "10 Commandments" contain both kinds as but one example.

    The first aren't "Christian" at all - although some are indeed to be found there but weren't invented there, the second has no place in our nation's laws.

    But more to the question at hand - the "current political climate" has, for the first time in QUITE some time, little to do with Christians - a refreshing change. Its only a matter of time before that changes, esp. with a Christianist like Pence as VP as well as others.

    I sit, I watch, and I trust no-one. As I have for most of my 57 years.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    So called "Christian values" come in two varieties: 1) what I call "universal ethics", which pre-date organized monotheism of ANY kind by millennia, and 2) Judeo-Christian-Islamic so called "morality" which are peculiar to Abrahamic religions and have nothing to do with ethics, nor our nation's founding. The "10 Commandments" contain both kinds as but one example.

    The first aren't "Christian" at all - although some are indeed to be found there but weren't invented there, the second has no place in our nation's laws.

    But more to the question at hand - the "current political climate" has, for the first time in QUITE some time, little to do with Christians - a refreshing change. Its only a matter of time before that changes, esp. with a Christianist like Pence as VP as well as others.

    I sit, I watch, and I trust no-one. As I have for most of my 57 years.
    Zorba Brother, I have to disagree with you. This country was founded on Jude-Christian values. Why do I know this, because at that time in history England was Judeo Christian. Yeah they had a state church that our founders didn't like because no matter what you believed you had to support the state's church. But the other religions available at the time were also different degrees of Judeo-Christianity. There's a lot of talk and writing about Deism. Deist were said to believe in a Supreme Being but not necessarily as what Christians and Jews believed. But I'm here to tell you this, they get this crap from Masonry. Why, because Masonry on the bottom level doesn't mention Christ. That's because it's not a religion. It's a fraternal order based on Biblical Principles. I've heard anti Masons harp on this. They turn it into anti Masonry saying that Masonry is its own religion. That's poppy cock BS. Anyway, that's where I think this Deism BS comes from. Masons can be Christians, Jews, I've even known a few Muslim Masons. Blue Lodge Masonry has to be non denominational. It can't be Christian or Jew or whatever, it has to be inclusive. The only belief required of a man to be a Mason is a belief in a supreme being. That's what they claim are deists. This is because Masonry isn't a church! It's a fraternity. All these guys in history that people claim are Deist are usually privately Christian or Jew. As Masons they can't claim their religious beliefs are part of Masonry. So after the fact, or after they were dead, they were proclaimed Deists. It's Crap. Read what Washington and Ben Franklin said about God. I don't know how Jefferson got tied into this, but they claim he was a Deist, Jefferson wasn't a Mason that we know of and I have read things he wrote about his religious beliefs and they sure sounded Christian to me.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,180 Senior Member
    That's fine Snake, we can disagree. Our founders put out a pretty good effort to NOT found our country on ANY particular religion. The founding principles pre-date Christianity. If anything, we're founded on Greco-Roman (pagan) ideals - democracy - not top-down authoritarianism as Abrahamic religions are all structured. What little I know of the Masons, they pre-date Christianity as well - if the rumors are true - by thousands of years.

    I'm not here to rain on anybody's personal beliefs, but the "Christian Nation" idea is crap - little different from, say, "The Islamic Republic of Iran" and just as distasteful. Theocracies are one of the blackest evils of them all, and the USA is not such, despite the commentary the Dominionist Christianists try to foist on us. I'm not claiming our founders were - or were not - Christians. I'm claiming that they transcended their personal beliefs - whatever those may have been - to give us the founding documents that we have. The principles therein weren't invented by Christians. Indeed, it could be argued that they weren't "invented" by anybody, they were - and are - "self evident".

    Jefferson is particularly interesting to study - he had a pretty good grasp of what the truest possible form of freedom/liberty could be, and it wasn't theocracy.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,521 Senior Member
    And nowhere in anything Jefferson wrote did he state that there was freedom from religion or that persons who believe in God were to be banned from government.In fact the entire basis of our country was for that NOT to happen. Everyone gets a seat at the table. Nor did he agree with you that the country was founded on anything but the principals, either adopted, created or espoused by Christians. He did write a letter letting another person know that there was no federal religion or plan to establish one, which although plain to read and simple to understand, has been taken wholly out of context and meaning.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Just keep trying to be fair and soon we will be living in "The Islamic Republic of America".
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    Yup, The Republicans have it all right now. But there are a few Senator's and Gongress critters that seem to be playing for the other team. I believe because if The Clintons are ever honestly investigated Hillary will be prosecuted and convicted. It that happens several old timers from both parties will be dragged down with her. I believe the corruption runs deeply into both parties and that kind of a shake up will destroy our Nation as we know it.
    The answer is: Elect a non political person that we can spend all our time beating up and keep the real guilty people out of the limelight. Not to say that Mr Trump doesn't have his own issues. Heck, I said from the beginning delete his tweeter account and break his phone, to get him atleast a little.

    I don't think it's the "other team" as much as it is the money from the insurance companies. There are droves of lobbyists offering untold amounts of cash to KEEP ObamaCare as is.

    None of them give a damn about the citizenry.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    And nowhere in anything Jefferson wrote did he state that there was freedom from religion or that persons who believe in God were to be banned from government.

    I'm with Zorba on this. I have no problem with religious people, until they push for laws forcing me to conform to some deity's arbitrary command. We have enough already, especially at the state and local levels.

    My problem with atheists (and I am one) is they are zealots about the little things: In God We Trust on money, the Ten Commandments in public spaces, Nativity scenes, etc. None of these things have force of law.

    Idiots are missing the bigger picture.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    Just keep trying to be fair and soon we will be living in "The Islamic Republic of America".

    Exactly.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,496 Senior Member
    Dare I say "PREACH IT ZORBA!" :up:

    There are two things I emphatically DO NOT want to be governed by:

    1. Somebody else's ideas on God - The Republican party contains more than a few folks who want to legislate morality. This came usually can't grasp the concept of "Your right to make a fist ends at throwing punches at my nose". Those folks seem more interested in regulating the fist than the punch. This being a gun forum, you shouldn't have any trouble wrapping your bean around these concepts.

    2. People who's idea of God is Karl Marx. No secret that this is the Democrats, but this spineless notion of "Repeal AND REPLACE" Obamacare seems to indicate the sentiment is creeping into the GOP as well. If there's a schism in the GOP, it would seem to be the true conservatives and Libertarians rejecting this notion that it's somehow MY job to pay to solve YOUR problems.

    We've got some serious priority issues to sort out with regards to what the government should be able to take and give. I'd be happy with no Mongol Hordes invading, no cholera in my water supply, safe roads to do my commerce on, and trees with the bodies of those who injure and steal hanging from them. The rest I can can handle myself.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,421 Senior Member
    Very true. I am also an Atheist, but there is certainly a highly vocal subset that don't understand irony. I'm anti anyone aggressively pushing their beliefs on others, even when I agree with them.

    An included in Freedom of "religion". Written to prevent a single sect from becoming the dominate "State Church" (Federal). As many States had a specific State Religion at the Founding. No where does the Constitution Ban any religious or non-religious person from political office. The Northwest Treaty actually states that the education of the Territories will be the done by Religious groups. Check it out. Northwest Treaty is one of our secondary founding documents. So if "religion" was banned by the Constitution to participate in governing/politics the Northwest Treaty certainly dispels that notion IMHO.

    On a secondary note: I've often wondered why atheists take offense to words such as, In God We Trust, if they don't believe He exists. If God does not exist how can the word be offensive? Doesn't it equate to "In Nothing We Trust" ?
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,814 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    .....The founding principles pre-date Christianity. If anything, we're founded on Greco-Roman (pagan) ideals - democracy - not top-down authoritarianism as Abrahamic religions are all structured.....

    Might not have, as we say down here, "A candle in this funeral" but this history-related idea and one most American (North, Central & South) States claim as basis for their foundations is probably what Zorba describes.
    I think actually the whole "Christian ideals" notion works for the purpose of a) Giving a "philosophical frame" to a nation's values that could be understood by anyone not having deep knowledge about civilization's history, politics, religion and ethics (And their "mechanics") and thus embraced due to empathy, and b) Recognizing the back then "secondary" or "parallel" power source (That is church, whatever it was as a source of "social glue" with its values and rites) that somewhat legitimated a State's actions and projection was needed to sort of complete the notion of a community with common goals and will to be properly ruled towards them.

    Only when communism appeared in scene the then "modern" Western civilizations faced again a political movement in which "church" and State were pretty much like in primitive societies, the same power-source entity.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,180 Senior Member
    Just for the record - and I've said this before but it bears repeating - I am most certainly NOT an Atheist; quite the opposite, I'm a polytheist.

    The only objection I really have to "In God We Trust", "Under God", etc, etc is that it encourages the "Christian Nation" crowd. Our original motto was "E Pluribus Unum", and is very cohesive and inclusive. "In God We Trust" is the exact opposite - its divisive. And most certainly the "10 Commandments" have no place whatsoever in the public sphere - it promulgates Abrahamic monotheism above all others, and several of the commandments are peculiar ONLY to same and have nothing to do with ethics.

    Now with all that said, I have bigger fish to fry and worse things to worry about - but when the above starts being used as an excuse to call this country a "Christian Nation", I take notice and I take exception. And I'm with BigSlug - I don't want the "Party of Marx" either!

    And yes, I consider myself a Libertarian - I've said this before also: Both the Dems and the GOP are parties of slavery. Choose your slavery. And yes, the Libertarian party went full **** this last election cycle with a Marxist. "Parties" are a large part of the problem, our founders warned us about them.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    pjames777 wrote: »
    An included in Freedom of "religion". Written to prevent a single sect from becoming the dominate "State Church" (Federal). As many States had a specific State Religion at the Founding. No where does the Constitution Ban any religious or non-religious person from political office. The Northwest Treaty actually states that the education of the Territories will be the done by Religious groups. Check it out. Northwest Treaty is one of our secondary founding documents. So if "religion" was banned by the Constitution to participate in governing/politics the Northwest Treaty certainly dispels that notion IMHO.

    On a secondary note: I've often wondered why atheists take offense to words such as, In God We Trust, if they don't believe He exists. If God does not exist how can the word be offensive? Doesn't it equate to "In Nothing We Trust" ?

    The education provided by the religious groups was the only option at the time. The new country couldn't provide public education, and likely had no intentions to do so at that time.

    I have no idea why some atheists take offense to the word God. As I mentioned earlier, they are zealots who are likely not getting enough. They focus they're energy on pointless endeavors.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    "And most certainly the "10 Commandments" have no place whatsoever in the public sphere "

    And which of the 10 Commandments do you disagree with? And since the 10 Commandments were given to Moses they cannot be called Christian, they predate Christ.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »

    And which of the 10 Commandments do you disagree with?

    The first four.

    ETA - go ahead and include #10.

    ETA2 - Now that I think about it, #6 doesn't allow for SD.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,180 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    "And most certainly the "10 Commandments" have no place whatsoever in the public sphere "

    And which of the 10 Commandments do you disagree with? And since the 10 Commandments were given to Moses they cannot be called Christian, they predate Christ.

    Correct - they are relevant to the three Abrahamic religions, and ONLY the three Abrahamic religions.

    Here's the breakdown, "universal ethics" existed long before this list was created, "JCI (Judaism/Christianity/Islamic) specific means just that, these are meaningless in most other religions:

    1) You shall have no other gods before Me - JCI Specific.
    2) You shall not make idols - JCI Specific
    3) You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain - JCI Specific
    4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy - JCI Specific
    5) Honor your father and your mother - good advice
    6) You shall not murder - universal ethic
    7) You shall not commit adultery - This one depends on definitions, I'd rather it read something about "Keep your word", in which case it would be a universal ethic but could also be replaced with #9.
    8) You shall not steal - universal ethic
    9) You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor - universal ethic
    0) You shall not covet - another slippery one, could be interpreted as a universal ethic, see #8.

    As you can see, four of them, plus another possible two depending on one's interpretation, have nothing to do with the laws of the USA. The remaining ones, being what I call "universal ethics" are rightly encoded into law - but Christians et al didn't invent them. Indeed, the world would be a better place if more people paid attention to #9 in particular! But both this law, and those who break it, have been around for millennia.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Just for the record - and I've said this before but it bears repeating - I am most certainly NOT an Atheist; quite the opposite, I'm a polytheist.

    The only objection I really have to "In God We Trust", "Under God", etc, etc is that it encourages the "Christian Nation" crowd. Our original motto was "E Pluribus Unum", and is very cohesive and inclusive. "In God We Trust" is the exact opposite - its divisive. And most certainly the "10 Commandments" have no place whatsoever in the public sphere - it promulgates Abrahamic monotheism above all others, and several of the commandments are peculiar ONLY to same and have nothing to do with ethics.

    Now with all that said, I have bigger fish to fry and worse things to worry about - but when the above starts being used as an excuse to call this country a "Christian Nation", I take notice and I take exception. And I'm with BigSlug - I don't want the "Party of Marx" either!

    And yes, I consider myself a Libertarian - I've said this before also: Both the Dems and the GOP are parties of slavery. Choose your slavery. And yes, the Libertarian party went full **** this last election cycle with a Marxist. "Parties" are a large part of the problem, our founders warned us about them.

    Agree. "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine, speaks about much of what you mentioned.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,189 Senior Member
    I thought religion was out of bounds. You guys knock it off.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    6) You shall not murder - universal ethic

    Self defense is not murder, it is a act of self defense. You should know the deference.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    I thought religion was out of bounds. You guys knock it off.

    Unless we are talking about Islam. Then it's fair game all day, every day.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,189 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    Unless we are talking about Islam. Then it's fair game all day, every day.

    Apparently bashing religion is accepted, too.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,180 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    6) You shall not murder - universal ethic

    Self defense is not murder, it is a act of self defense. You should know the deference.

    I do indeed. Didn't say otherwise.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,287 Senior Member
    Aaaannndddd...that's it for this thread...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
This discussion has been closed.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement