.22 LR for SD/HD

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Replies

  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,082 Senior Member
    Yes, a .22 LR can kill a person.

    Stopping them quickly, which is something folks usually want in an HD/SD firearm? That's a different story. And don't try to bring up the Mossad. Assassinations are a whole 'nother matter.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 6,045 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Whether .22 LR or .44 Mag., anything worth shooting is worth shooting more than once, or so I've been told.

    I like that!
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 6,045 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    The .22 long rifle round can be a good SD weapon- - - - -just slip a brick of 'em in a boot sock and swing it really hard at the BG's head!
    :devil:
    Jerry

    :spittingcoffee:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    Piss on gel tests!

    sounds like I need to shoot a pig with a .22lr and see how long it takes to die.

    So, what say ye? One round or multiples?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 5,732 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Piss on gel tests!

    sounds like I need to shoot a pig with a .22lr and see how long it takes to die.

    So, what say ye? One round or multiples?
    Hell yes! For science!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,245 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Piss on gel tests!

    sounds like I need to shoot a pig with a .22lr and see how long it takes to die.

    So, what say ye? One round or multiples?

    Science would require both wouldn't it?
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    It would only test lethality, lacking other factors that may or may not break off an attack.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 10,156 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Piss on gel tests!

    sounds like I need to shoot a pig with a .22lr and see how long it takes to die.

    So, what say ye? One round or multiples?

    I did shoot an aggressive wild pig (a small wild hog, Southern definition, Northerners call all porkers as pigs) with a .22 in the head with a High Standard HD Military pistol in the head and it died almost immediately. About 20 yards. A .22 is the round of choice for slaughtering hogs and cattle at zero range. I don't recommend a .22 for a HD firearm for possibly methed-up assailants but it's better than a dull fork. There are better choices out there, especially for a night-stand gun and a LOT better choices for things that go bump in the night.
    Not too many problems you can't fix
    With a 1911 and a 30-06
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,104 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Piss on gel tests!

    sounds like I need to shoot a pig with a .22lr and see how long it takes to die.

    So, what say ye? One round or multiples?


    You shoot well so I gather POI will be spot on. In that instance I'll wager two follow up shots at the same POI to kill one "humanely". I'm basing this on a non in-the-ear shot.

    If that is the case death will likely be with one shot and fairly swiftly.

    I've shot possum several times with .22LR before dispatching them. Pigs is bigger.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,738 Senior Member
    I'd prefer a 22 rimfire for HD/SD over a knife, that's about it. I could probably "STOP" someone quicker with an aluminum (aluminium for shush and orchidman) baseball bat.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,967 Senior Member
    Zee wrote: »
    Piss on gel tests!

    sounds like I need to shoot a pig with a .22lr and see how long it takes to die.

    So, what say ye? One round or multiples?

    Yep..as many as it takes....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • olesniperolesniper Senior Member Posts: 3,750 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    This is the correct point of discussion. Usually someone that experiences a one to a few .45, .40 or 9mm hits to the torso KONWS they've been shot, which usually takes the wind out of their sails. President Reagan took a hit to the chest and realized he'd been shot later on. Story after story of folks shot with .22s not finding out until someone told them they were bleeding are out there. Now putting 20 .22 slugs as fast as you can pull the trigger into a bad guy might have some merit if this is all you have or can handle. So a Ruger 10-22 with a high capacity magazine could do if there was nothing better available.

    You've got something better than the 10-22, for a close in HD .22 rifle.


    jdLyfXg.jpg
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil: For I carry a .308 and not a .270
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,002 Senior Member
    The thing with .22's is that they are right at the heart of that old saying that it was Sam Colt that made us all equal.

    There's a lot of folks out there that CAN'T rack the slide of a proper semi auto, manage a DA revolver trigger, lift up a rifle with a 16" barrel or 26" OAL (THANKS FDR!:roll:), or handle any significant amount of recoil, but they CAN grab a medium-sized .22 pistol by the ears, run it's bolt back, run a single action trigger, and shoot with reasonable accuracy a gun that goes "POP!" instead of "WHA-BOOM!"

    I don't think anybody is suggesting this is the IDEAL tool for the job, but the reality is that small, weak, old, and frail happen. So, under those circumstances, what DOES a .22 get you?

    You get the ability to say "NO", which you wouldn't have if all you had to throw was your dentures.

    You get an effective deterrent against those that don't want to be shot.

    You've got a fair chance of felons ceasing their activities against you when shot at, whether they end up DRT, slightly injured, or missed entirely.

    You get the ability to cause them to at least leave they scene leaking - perhaps fatally, at the very least with some reason to re-evaluate some life choices, while being asked some very awkward and uncomfortable questions in the ER. Even if you yourself aren't alive at the end of the encounter, you have managed a service for whoever is behind you - including society at large. A Bushido win is still a win.

    The proper question to ask, I think, is "Would you rather Grandma have a .22, or nothing at all?"
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,797 Senior Member
    Home defense / self defense... I maintain that most criminals are cowards, and that just the sound of an unsuppressed .22 LR going off in a 12x12 room will deter them. As far as lethality, a .22 LR shot from a short barrel isn't much. I believe the phrase, "Shoot until the threat is stopped" would be a bunch of .22's. And of course, FWIW, a .223 / 5.56, 22-250 and all the other similar guns are essentially very fast .22's.

    Not my first choice, but certainly better than nothing. I would rather use a .32 S&W Long in a low recoil, low powered round.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,564 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Thought you already did that?

    I've killed plenty with head shots from a .22.

    I'm talking a behind the shoulder, through the vitals on a fully live subject. Start the clock and see how long it takes to incapacitate.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,616 Senior Member
    Science would require a DRT shot on a 150 - 250 lb. hog, in my opinion.

    I used to believe one .22 LR in the ear would produce a DRT on a feral hog, but after bouncing a 230 grain .45 ACP HP off of one's skull, and only 'ringing his bell,' I'm not so sure.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,665 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    The thing with .22's is that they are right at the heart of that old saying that it was Sam Colt that made us all equal.

    There's a lot of folks out there that CAN'T rack the slide of a proper semi auto, manage a DA revolver trigger, lift up a rifle with a 16" barrel or 26" OAL (THANKS FDR!:roll:), or handle any significant amount of recoil, but they CAN grab a medium-sized .22 pistol by the ears, run it's bolt back, run a single action trigger, and shoot with reasonable accuracy a gun that goes "POP!" instead of "WHA-BOOM!"

    I don't think anybody is suggesting this is the IDEAL tool for the job, but the reality is that small, weak, old, and frail happen. So, under those circumstances, what DOES a .22 get you?

    You get the ability to say "NO", which you wouldn't have if all you had to throw was your dentures.

    You get an effective deterrent against those that don't want to be shot.

    You've got a fair chance of felons ceasing their activities against you when shot at, whether they end up DRT, slightly injured, or missed entirely.

    You get the ability to cause them to at least leave they scene leaking - perhaps fatally, at the very least with some reason to re-evaluate some life choices, while being asked some very awkward and uncomfortable questions in the ER. Even if you yourself aren't alive at the end of the encounter, you have managed a service for whoever is behind you - including society at large. A Bushido win is still a win.

    The proper question to ask, I think, is "Would you rather Grandma have a .22, or nothing at all?"
    This. I don't think any of us here would pick a .22lr for SD, that said I think it has its place for a lot of people. New shooters, young people, older people, disabled or weak people are all groups that would probably be best served with a .22lr. They also have the benefits of being inexpensive, easy to control, and more quiet. I would bet you could put a fully loaded 10/22 into a person's hand who has never fired a gun and 9 out of 10 people could put at least half the mag into an assailant at room distance within a few seconds. I don't know that there's another type of firearm that you could do that. If I had to hand a gun to my GF in a SD scenario it would probably be a .22 rifle because it's what she's most comfortable with and shoots best. A bunch of hits with a .22lr >>>>> than misses with something else.

    Also not to go all prepper, but I'd also argue that a light, handy .22lr is the ideal /survival weapon IMHO. Plus 500 rounds weighs 4lbs.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,616 Senior Member
    I guess it's all relative. I would rather have a .22 than a knife or a baseball bat. I'd rather have a 9mm, .45, or .38 than a .22. I'd rather have a 12 gauge shotgun than a handgun.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I guess it's all relative. I would rather have a .22 than a knife or a baseball bat. I'd rather have a 9mm, .45, or .38 than a .22. I'd rather have a 12 gauge shotgun than a handgun.

    And two/2/to/tu/too .22s make not a .44 :tooth: :guns: :guns:
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,329 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    No, the only Aguila I have is some low noise stuff. I have been meaning to try some of that brand. For some reason I assumed it wasn't very good .22 ammo for years, but recently I have read it is pretty good stuff.

    I know Ruger and others do not recommend that hyper stuff like Stingers to be fired from their semis..... I'm sure a box or two wouldn't hurt but constant use batters them I'm told.

    Although Mexican-made, both the CF & RF cartridges I've so far tested performed as you would expect any SAAMI ammo would do. Too bad the local importer brings them no more since prices were quite decent.

    I tested the Hipermaximum in my 10/22 and they performed as expected; I recall hitting a big, still green orange with the HP @ 55 yards and it literally vaporized in a yellowish mist. Due to the price and relatively mediocre accuracy of this round (As expected with any hyper velocity .22LR) it would probably be a complete waste to feed one of these rifles a steady diet of this round.

    I think the real issue other than the internals battering (You can always install a recoil buffer, replace prematurely worn parts or just buy another 10/22....like all those options weren't almost dirt-cheap and easy in the US), is the fact that as long as I recall, both these and the Stingers have a longer case that due to heat of rapid fire or whatnot might eventually get stuck in the barrel throat's rifling and jam (Or worse) the gun with a FTE/DF in the chamber....and gun manufacturers' legal teams and CS departments don't like that at all, so they promptly advice against it.

    Seems like we all agree that the .22LR is a poor choice for a SD round when you have on hand (And are able to use it proficiently) something more powerful and reliable. If recoil is a problem, at least all the 4" barrel S&W .32 S&W Long revolvers I've tested have pretty much the same noise and kick level you can get from a similar .22LR handgun.

    Years ago I recall reading in a magazine about a 9 or 10 years old son of an Argentinian Navy officer that was camping in his little tent inside his living room (apparently it has been raining outside); kid was sleeping with his recent birthday gift, a .22LR rifle (Apparently a Marlin 60) and his parents at their bedroom, when in the middle of the night a couple of terrorist from a local communist group broke inside the house to murder the homeowner with their 9mm pistols (Common practice against military personnel at the time).
    The boy woke up while they were searching the place but didn't realized he was quietly hiding behind a couch, rifle on hand, and before they could get inside the dormitory area, were sprayed with a hail of .22LR bullets, dropping both death on the spot, shot by a small boy armed with a semiauto that so bravely saved his parents from an almost certain death.
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