"Smart Gun" hacked, not too impervious after all

JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior MemberPosts: 6,104 Senior Member
https://youtu.be/ANllOmgJH9Y

I was actually surprised how objective the guy was about gun ownership. And while his methods of defeating the smart gun are beyond the scope of a majority of people, it shows the fallibility of even refined technology. And that smart guns aren't the saviors from gun deaths.
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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Replies

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    "Smart" anything isn't a savior from anything - unless you have Telco stock!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,101 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    "Smart" anything isn't a savior from anything - unless you have Telco stock!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Your penchant for ignoring facts is once again amusing. OnStar has a huge wall at corp HQ with the pictures of the folks that are alive today because their collision detections system in their cars called emergency services when they could not. There are 100s of thousands of people worldwide who now have wearable medical devices that send first responders to their house at the first sign of a medical emergency. Quite the leap from Billy finding grandma dead on the kitchen floor 4 days after the heart attack. I could continue all day but at some point you should maybe take the time to consider how shaky your soap box really is by doing some actual research.

    :deadhorse::deadhorse:
    Overkill is underrated.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    So Enzo, where is *your* "smart* gun?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Your penchant for ignoring facts is once again amusing. OnStar has a huge wall at corp HQ with the pictures of the folks that are alive today because their collision detections system in their cars called emergency services when they could not. There are 100s of thousands of people worldwide who now have wearable medical devices that send first responders to their house at the first sign of a medical emergency. Quite the leap from Billy finding grandma dead on the kitchen floor 4 days after the heart attack. I could continue all day but at some point you should maybe take the time to consider how shaky your soap box really is by doing some actual research.

    Yep - the Telcos keep preaching this so people will pay $80/month (or whatever) for their latest gadget. They're helped immeasurably by the Socialist-Liberal Nanny State (tm) that promotes cradle to grave "Safety" - and increasingly legislates this crap into our lives.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I don't want a Smart Gun..............or more precisely do not wanna be forced to use one. The inventors intentions may be noble (besides making money) to "Save Lives" but it will end up being another hoop law abiding gun owners have to jump through when they try and make it a mandatory as a "Safety Feature" to save children's lives.

    Think internal gun locks suck, just wait. Haven't we been through this before and it was rejected because Big Brother could shut grids off so no guns would work like in your house/neighborhood or in a high crime area they deem nobody but them should have a usable gun in?

    Technology is good, but sometimes the consequences aren't fully comprehended, thought out before it hits the market.

    There may very well a small market for Smart-Guns like in prisons or when a cop loses his or it is taken away so they can be disabled and not used by criminals.

    Or unbeknown to you an ex wife/GF has filled a vindictive complaint against you...........all of a sudden your gun won't work or you didn't pay a traffic ticket or a VIP is visiting your town................they shut it down and on it goes.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 1,813 Senior Member
    I realize that bad guys aren't going to "invest" in the technology to defeat a "smart gun" now. However, if/when such weapons do become much, much more common I feel sure the bad guys will discover and invest in ways to defeat the prevailing technology.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    RugerFan wrote: »
    I realize that bad guys aren't going to "invest" in the technology to defeat a "smart gun" now. However, if/when such weapons do become much, much more common I feel sure the bad guys will discover and invest in ways to defeat the prevailing technology.

    Sure they will as sure as the sun rises and sets every day.

    I suppose when Al Gore "invented" the Internet they didn't think about Hackers either.................and I got some oceanfront property to sell you in Arizona too/tew/to/two/2................
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,101 Senior Member
    I get that.

    On the other hand, if you look at threads about technology here the threads seem to follow the same exact script with the same folks posting the same kinds of stuff.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,967 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    National security....smart gun. National security....smart gun.
    Not seeing the similarities.
    I'm glad this guy published this information. Were I dumb enough to buy a smart gun, I'd like to know it can be out smarted by magnets.
    All the electronic mumbo jumbo is out of the reach of most folks, but this "smart" gun can be defeated by a trip to Lowes or Home Depot.

    Oh no, Pierre, you mean Hobby Lobby :yikes:

    So now we know if someone breaks out a magnet they are not gonna be picking up nails.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Hey, some day when his Doctor (God forbid) tells him he's looking at a handshake meeting with his goddess if he does not do X (insert modern medical tech) he can then make the decision to embrace the technology or die on his principles. Life is THAT simple...

    But at least I won't have to pay a Telco - or anyone else for that matter - $9.99/mo for it. Or $80. Or whatever.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,967 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    But at least I won't have to pay a Telco - or anyone else for that matter - $9.99/mo for it. Or $80. Or whatever.

    But, would you have to put sequins on the magnet? :uhm:
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    NN wrote: »
    But, would you have to put sequins on the magnet? :uhm:

    Only if I was going to dance with it! :tooth:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,626 Senior Member
    Plore can knock himself out trying to hack my purely mechanical, non-electric firearms. They're so dumb, they're actually very, very smart. Lock & Load!
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,689 Senior Member
    I get that.

    On the other hand, if you look at threads about technology here the threads seem to follow the same exact script with the same folks posting the same kinds of stuff.

    There is one glaring example of a huge contradiction relating to a certain members resistance to technological advancements. While Zorba is anti anything modern or technologically advanced, he's the first one to bitch about someone's inefficient or poorly designed website or the horrors of having to use primitive or outdated software or operating systems. Go figure.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Yep, just as SOME burglars spend time finding ways to defeat alarm systems. But for the most part guys with engineering degrees and thousands of dollars in high tech equipment and tools do not take on a life of crime, no?

    Well, you need to include people like ME that take things apart to find out how they work, with firearms being HIGH on that list. I WILL detail strip a firearm I own at some point. It's what I've always done. And looking at that magnetic plunger thing, I see a real need to be totally OCD when owning one of those. Shooting one will get crud back in that area, and add a little oil, and you have a stuck plunger.

    And there's the old adage I learned long ago, "If it has ta-tas, tires, or batteries, then it's gonna be trouble". And that goes double for a firearm that requires 2 batteries, one for the firearm itself, and one for that funky monkey watch thingy. Transmitters, receivers, and transceivers can be blocked/screwed up by the stray signals picked up from other electronics. Shielding sucks hind teat on a boar hog on most consumer grade crap electronics. And harmonic frequencies from the base frequency are the devil. Case in point; I have to physically separate my battery powered outdoor temperature receiver from my wireless landline phone. They BOTH play hob with each other if they are within three feet of one another. And with YOUR wireless wonder stuff coming online like the smart cars and all that radar RF 'fog' cluttering the airways it will only get worse. Bringing all that stuff online with what I'm going to assume is little or no interference testing doesn't give me the warm fuzzy feelings. And I'm going out on a limb and assuming that because that would cost time and money to do thorough testing, so they just throw it out there and deal with the problems as they crop up. Which explains many multiple versions of those electronic gizmos, and their recall from time to time.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,689 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    There is one glaring example of a huge contradiction relating to a certain members resistance to technological advancements. While Zorba is anti anything modern or technologically advanced, he's the first one to bitch about someone's inefficient or poorly designed website or the horrors of having to use primitive or outdated software or operating systems. Go figure.

    In fact, now that I think of it, didn't Zorba point out recently that he had liposuction done to get rid of his belly? The old fashioned healthy way is physical exercise if I recall correctly and liposuction is a fairly modern technic that I'm sure requires the use of some modern electronic equipment.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    There is one glaring example of a huge contradiction relating to a certain members resistance to technological advancements. While Zorba is anti anything modern or technologically advanced, he's the first one to bitch about someone's inefficient or poorly designed website or the horrors of having to use primitive or outdated software or operating systems. Go figure.

    Go figure because I'm NOT "anti anything modern or technologically advanced", quite the opposite. BUT, I don't see the reason for putting a microprocessor in everything whether or not it makes any sense, nor do I care for the piss poor programming practices I see industry wide. I wrote software for a living for 12 years, and "this ain't it" in regards to much the modern stuff I see. Some of these hacks not only didn't PASS CS-101, a lot of them didn't even TAKE CS-101. This results in unreliable, buggy software that crashes, and LATENCY in the system. I can program a 2MHZ 8080 to run rings around a lot of these control systems based on a micro-controller that has 1,000X the power - because I know how to program. The right way.

    And I particularly dislike technology that is designed to suck money out of my wallet - and that model has now come to the PC with the advent of Windows 10 (copying Apple's "store" based model), and renting software like Office 365 and Adobe products. Not to mention gadgets like the smartfone which is too big to be a good fone, too small to be a good computer, costs a small fortune and is obsolete or broken in a couple or three years - AND - sucks $80/month (or whatever) out of the user's wallet. No thank you.

    The $9.99/month model, used by Sirius/XM radio, TiVo, and countless others I refuse to have anything to do with either. In fact, TiVo proves beyond the shadow of a doubt the utter stupidity of a large percentage of American consumers who couldn't program a VCR. Can one even buy a DVR that doesn't come attached to a monthly fee? Cable companies and Telcos put this stuff out there and have been very successful in convincing a lot of people that they can't live without these things and their associated monthly fees.

    As for tech that I like, there's a lot of it. I purchased an amplified speaker to replace my "Boom Box" aka "Ghetto Blaster" when its CD player died and it had no line input. The new speaker is pretty good - although I *do* see latency in this system as well. It can play from a "geek stick" (best thing ever invented), several different analog line inputs, including mic and guitar, and it can be linked to via BlueTooth so you can send it music to play from a computer, laptop, tablet, or even my flip fone. Makes a fantastic "gig box" for dance performances, and if my dance sisters have their music on a fone or other device, they can just link to my speaker and play away. The only thing it doesn't do is play CDs - but $10 will fix that if I ever get to the point of where I actually care. Its one of the few devices I own that is (rechargeable) battery powered and makes sense for it to be. And no $9.99/month fee just to use it!

    Another technological device I like is the GPS. The arithmetic it has to do is awesome, and if its a mapping GPS, the database that's built into it is very impressive indeed. and no $9.99/month fee just to use it - buy it once, use it for many years!

    But technology for its own sake no longer impresses me. There was a time when it did, but that was decades ago. And I still like tinkering with my old IMSAI 8080 computer - hope to get CP/M running on it at some point. Probably with solid state drives - 8 inch floppies were pretty awesome things, but SS is the way to go now!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    In fact, now that I think of it, didn't Zorba point out recently that he had liposuction done to get rid of his belly? The old fashioned healthy way is physical exercise if I recall correctly and liposuction is a fairly modern technic that I'm sure requires the use of some modern electronic equipment.

    Some kind of vacuum thingie, coupled with saline water injection.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Oh, yes you will and you are already.

    First, all new generation medical monitoring devices belong to a type called IoT (Internet of Things) devices which include some cool stuff like heart monitors, glucose monitors (for diabetics), and all sort of other nifty gadgets currently keeping folks alive longer and giving them more freedom when they do get sick. Whether they use wireless mobile data, wi-fi, blue tooth or something sexier like NB-IoT they all carry network charges associated with their use. The next generation will automatically administer medication like nitroglycerin and insulin to the patients without a doctor's involvement. And ALL of them are smarter on their specific task than their users.

    Second, there are network charges in everything you use and pay for today. Your light bill, your water bill, your gas bill (you pay Mobil, Mobil pays ME! :tooth:) your doctor's bill, your mechanic's bill (who do you think pays for THEIR internet access? You buy tires for your classic MB? BAM! Tire company network usage is on you.

    You might delude yourself into thinking you are minimizing your "contribution" by not buying cable or a smart phone but unless you are an aborigine in the middle of the jungle in Brazil living fully off the land, you are paying your share, want it or not. Now whether you are getting the best bang for what you are paying, that is another completely debatable topic and totally up to the individual...

    Yes, and I pay. their food bill too. I'm simply saying I refuse to directly feed the greedy cable companies and telcos any more than I just absolutely have to. Tivos and smartfones are the stupidest gadgets ever invented. I once said I wouldn't have a smart fone if you gave it to me - and after trying the operating environment for myself - as well as seeing the hassle everyone seems to go through with these overpriced toys - I now say that I wouldn't have one if you PAID me to have one!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,101 Senior Member
    Respectfully, there's no debate here. Just two sides espousing their beliefs without being willing to really, honestly consider the points of the other side, oftentimes discounting data from the other side and at the same time holding their own support sacrosanct.

    To be honest with you and other folks here, many of the "discussions" on this forum aren't discussions: neither side really considers what the other is saying except with the intent of "how can I prove them wrong." We, as a society, no longer debate or discuss. We just argue. It's funny that folks think that information can combat disinformation, when nowadays most folks conflate information with opinion, giving them equal weight with no distinction.

    Incidentally I'm not singling you and Zorba out on this, just pointing out how it exemplifies the bigger picture.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • AxeAxe Member Posts: 375 Member
    Being that we are in New Jersey, we are used to the "smart gun" banter and threats. Fortunately, even as much of a ding bat our governor is, he has refused time and time again to sign any bills with the so called smart gun technology. It is garbage at best, and a long way from being feasible. Obviously this gentleman has other means of interfering with the mechanical function of these pistols than others might have, but there is so much more to this smart gun debate. Like Jason said, they aren't the saviors from gun deaths, but they are going to be the cause of death for those forced to rely on this failed concept.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Interesting perspective but without trying to expand on this beyond Zorba and I, I think this discussion is respectful and at times maybe a little funny but I have tried to see his point and find it lacking in susbstance and believe it's more of an emotional issue than factual. I do have plenty of numbers on my side including users and success stories for the technologies we promote. And again, as I've said before, I'm not trying to change Zorba's mind. Just trying to give a different view for those that read with an open mind to make up their own minds on the subject.

    Heck, I think the debate is fun!

    All your examples are great - but I can do the same thing with my laptop/computer and not pay $80/month. And SEE what I'm doing!

    Windows is stupid? Darn right it is! I have the same agreement with Microsoft as I do with Apple: They keep doing stupid stuff, and I keep cussing at them. Android/IOS is stupid too - and saddled with a piss-poor UI and tiny screen on top of it. Yea, its amazing what these little devices can do - BUT - its virtually always a PITA compared to a real computer with a real keyboard, mouse, and displays - yes displays plural. I had 4 medium sized by today's standards displays on my computer at work in California, but I only have two here at home in Florida, and one of them is too small and needs to be upgraded at some point. And I can SEE what I'm doing/reading/whatever, and interact with the system without the pain of a touch interface and no keyboard.

    With all that said, when voice recognition actually works as well as it does in Sci-Fi movies, keyboards and mice will become vastly deprecated. I've been waiting for voice recognition that really works since the advent of the "Vox Box" peripheral for the TRS-80 in the late 1970s. We're getting a LOT closer, but we're still not there yet. Maybe another 10 years (I hope)? All the effort that went into handwriting recognition I considered a complete and total waste of time UNTIL it occurred to me that it was pretty much the same type of algorithm needed for voice recognition - then I was OK with it. Didn't want to USE it, but could see where the development of it would transfer forward. Now handwriting recognition is gone - and good riddance - and limited voice recognition is becoming better and better. When I can talk to my computer like HAL, we will have arrived.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Well, we have arrived. I can tell Siri to email Zorba, and she does.

    Like I say, its getting there.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Speaking of magnets wasn't it back in the 80s or so when Massad Ayoob was writing about a revolver outfitted with a magnetic lock that you had wear a magnetic ring to release the sear? Not for everyone and he talked about how it may be viable in some situations.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,689 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Dude. I'd have better luck convincing you to wear Fruit of The Loom tighty whiteys than you can convince Zorba that smart phones are useful.

    You left out DVRs. Saying that people buy them because they are too lazy to program a VCR is idiotic. DVRs are one of the greatest inventions since sliced bread as they're a zillion times easier and more efficient than a VCR. Someone who gets their belly fat vacuumed out because they're too lazy to walk around the block once in a while calling someone who doesn't want to spend a bunch of time researching schedules and programming start and stop times lazy is kinda rediculous.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    You left out DVRs. Saying that people buy them because they are too lazy to program a VCR is idiotic. DVRs are one of the greatest inventions since sliced bread as they're a zillion times easier and more efficient than a VCR. Someone who gets their belly fat vacuumed out because they're too lazy to walk around the block once in a while calling someone who doesn't want to spend a bunch of time researching schedules and programming start and stop times lazy is kinda rediculous.

    Hell, I get more exercise in a dance class than most people do all week!

    DVRs are fine - but its the height of stupidity to pay a monthly fee for one. Can you buy one without a monthly fee? I don't know, as I'm not into recording TV anymore, but its ludicrous to pay for a pseudo-"service" like that. "A fool and his money are soon parted."
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,689 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Hell, I get more exercise in a dance class than most people do all week!

    DVRs are fine - but its the height of stupidity to pay a monthly fee for one. Can you buy one without a monthly fee? I don't know, as I'm not into recording TV anymore, but its ludicrous to pay for a pseudo-"service" like that. "A fool and his money are soon parted."

    Yes, you can buy a DVR.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Yes, you can buy a DVR.

    With no fee?

    That would be the one to buy!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,689 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Hell, I get more exercise in a dance class than most people do all week!

    Maybe by your standards. If you burned as many calories as you ingested, you wouldn't have a fat layer to get vacuumed out, it's science.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,592 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Maybe by your standards. If you burned as many calories as you ingested, you wouldn't have a fat layer to get vacuumed out, it's science.

    I wish it were that easy...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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