Home Main Category Second Amendment/Politics

So what should we do?

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  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    Yes, in fact, I would. What are the alternatives? It's how search warrants are served. Since I don't break any laws or have contraband in my house, I'd be curious, but that's it. "Resisting to the last round" is one of those things that sound good in cheap novels but don't happen often in real life.

    This is fine, to a point, that is why I am asking the original question, still, asking for confirmation before opening a door seems like something a reasonable person would do, much like giving a police cruiser a rap to alert an officer you are approaching his vehicle, but lightning still strikes on occasion, regardless.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    I don't know how you would be able to verify. Fact is, thousands of search warrants are served every day, and thousands of homeowners don't get shot nor do cops. In fact, off-hand, I can't think of any homeowner getting shot during a search warrant. I know a cop who did get shot by a meth dealer, but generally deadly violence isn't employed due to proper execution. If there is a delay to "verify" (however that is done) it could be a delay to destroy evidence or get a gun, which is what happened with the cop I know who got shot. In the legs. Knock and announce, and if a delay, the warrant holder has a duty (a search warrant is a court order) to seize the illegal evidence believed to be inside. To delay to verify (which is impossible) is tantamount to a refusal.

    So I think you probably have in your mind a very esoteric situation that doesn't exist in the practical world.

    You know this is not true, Cali has provided many links. Again, not trying to agitate here, your replies have been enlightening. I have had a Deputy come to my door about some bad debt because the mental giant that lived across the street from me listed MY address as his on something or another, the Deputy I believe had a warrant in hand but he was professional and in uniform in his cruiser in daylight hours and we got things straightened out in a couple minutes with my drivers license and some finger pointing. He did not elaborate about the individual or the reasons he was at my house beyond the basics until he established my identity.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,063 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    This is fine, to a point, that is why I am asking the original question, still, asking for confirmation before opening a door seems like something a reasonable person would do, much like giving a police cruiser a rap to alert an officer you are approaching his vehicle, but lightning still strikes on occasion, regardless.

    What confirmation would you expect or accept? The cop will show you his badge, which is all the confirmation required. This isn't something that's negotiable. I'm not even sure what it means. Either you open the door or they'll open it for you.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    Gene L wrote: »
    What confirmation would you expect or accept? The cop will show you his badge, which is all the confirmation required. This isn't something that's negotiable. I'm not even sure what it means. Either you open the door or they'll open it for you.

    That the ID is genuine, that the piece of paper is indeed a warrant, that the dept the officer is from is indeed their employer, that the officer is at the right address, that the person on the warrant is correct.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    I am not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful to either side of the conversation, but the vitriol on the forum is getting old fast.

    If an LEO, or group thereof, come to the wrong address to issue a warrant, and they come to the wrong address, what is it that law enforcement would like us homeowners to do? Please be specific since I most likely will be armed and my dog may be barking.

    1). Don't be lackadaisical about home security, for one. Install a CCTV camera at the front door which can be viewed from within your room or room some distance from the front door. No issue then when someone comes knocking. It doesn't need to record necessarily, just show you who's there. Cops serve warrants in full uniform (or should be). You'll see who's there.

    2). Make something about your front yard plainly unique. A statue, figurine, paint scheme, decoration, landspacing...something. That sort of thing will be written in a warrant and offer a barrier of protection from misidentified approaches

    3). Have massive house numbers, PLAINLY FREAKIN VISIBLE. Have a light illuminate your numbers. And get flood lighting for your yard.

    4). Talk to cops you see patrolling your neighborhood, address concerns and suggestions for patrolling your neighborhood. That cop may be serving he warrant and he knows your house and you aren't a problem.

    Think along those lines and you go a LONG WAY to prevent an unfortunate misidentification of your house or house number. This on top of he fact that misidentified houses are the exception and not the rule and you decrease he odds from 1:1,000,000 to god knows how little.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    I wonder if homeowners insurance will cover the damage from a no knock search?

    Unlikely, but the city/county insurance will.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,063 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    That the ID is genuine, that the piece of paper is indeed a warrant, that the dept the officer is from is indeed their employer, that the officer is at the right address, that the person on the warrant is correct.

    How could you determine that at the door? It seems you're asking a lot of improbable questions that NO ONE can answer without extreme measures you choose either to believe or question with impossible requirements.

    Of all your questions, the only one I see valid is the address. Generally, the warrant is issued for the residence and while the person MAY be listed on the warrant, it isn't a given since (drug warrants) nicknames or false names are given to the affiant.

    Basically, as I have said many times, don't legislate at the door. If you insist on unreasonable proof, you can chance .00001% of a home invasion by thugs dressed as cops or a 100% chance if you don't open the door to a legit LEO, he's going to kick your door in if you refuse admittance. He's got a Court Order, after all, to enter your residence. If he's a home invader, he's probably going to kick your door in at night without a Knock and Announce.

    I see your concern, if it's truly concern and not a troll after this long period of questioning with obvious answers, as unconnected to any really possible scenario.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • rberglofrberglof Senior Member Posts: 2,728 Senior Member
    My brother lived in Las Veges some years back and someone was trying to gain entrance to the place he was staying at about 03:00, he called 911 and reported it and was told it was the police. My brother told them he did not see anyone in uniform and would shoot the first person breaking through the door. They immediately brought in a uniformed officer and he let them in.
    Turned out they had miss identified him as someone that was wanted for armed robbery. No harm no foul!
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 wrote: »
    You know this is not true, Cali has provided many links.

    He's admitted he does not read links provided. Or he complains that the links are LIBRUL!1! even when factual. I really don't know what else can be done with this type of mentality.

    At the end of the day, all cops are beyond reproach, and citizens MUST be subservient to any and all police actions. Because America and freedom....or something.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    1). Don't be lackadaisical about home security, for one. Install a CCTV camera at the front door which can be viewed from within your room or room some distance from the front door. No issue then when someone comes knocking. It doesn't need to record necessarily, just show you who's there. Cops serve warrants in full uniform (or should be). You'll see who's there.

    2). Make something about your front yard plainly unique. A statue, figurine, paint scheme, decoration, landspacing...something. That sort of thing will be written in a warrant and offer a barrier of protection from misidentified approaches

    3). Have massive house numbers, PLAINLY FREAKIN VISIBLE. Have a light illuminate your numbers. And get flood lighting for your yard.

    4). Talk to cops you see patrolling your neighborhood, address concerns and suggestions for patrolling your neighborhood. That cop may be serving he warrant and he knows your house and you aren't a problem.

    Think along those lines and you go a LONG WAY to prevent an unfortunate misidentification of your house or house number. This on top of he fact that misidentified houses are the exception and not the rule and you decrease he odds from 1:1,000,000 to god knows how little.


    How about don't be lackadaisical serving warrants? Is that too much to ask? Are you really putting police fups on the citizenry? CCTV, lights, crappy landscaping, and MASSIVE address numbers? Really? A little extra police intel is too much to expect?

    Way to blame the victims....
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,373 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    How about don't be lackadaisical serving warrants? Is that too much to ask? Are you really putting police fups on the citizenry? CCTV, lights, crappy landscaping, and MASSIVE address numbers? Really? A little extra police intel is too much to expect?

    Way to blame the victims....

    Now you are just being a richard. The question was ; what should we do? The man gave some ideas to reduce the chance of a mistake and you went to finger pointing and blame. The fact that mistakes happen sucks, but it is part of life. The best anyone can do is minimize the chances.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    1). Don't be lackadaisical about home security, for one. Install a CCTV camera at the front door which can be viewed from within your room or room some distance from the front door. No issue then when someone comes knocking. It doesn't need to record necessarily, just show you who's there. Cops serve warrants in full uniform (or should be). You'll see who's there.

    2). Make something about your front yard plainly unique. A statue, figurine, paint scheme, decoration, landspacing...something. That sort of thing will be written in a warrant and offer a barrier of protection from misidentified approaches

    3). Have massive house numbers, PLAINLY FREAKIN VISIBLE. Have a light illuminate your numbers. And get flood lighting for your yard.

    4). Talk to cops you see patrolling your neighborhood, address concerns and suggestions for patrolling your neighborhood. That cop may be serving he warrant and he knows your house and you aren't a problem.

    Think along those lines and you go a LONG WAY to prevent an unfortunate misidentification of your house or house number. This on top of he fact that misidentified houses are the exception and not the rule and you decrease he odds from 1:1,000,000 to god knows how little.

    Got it all covered except for the cameras, thanks.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    rberglof wrote: »
    My brother lived in Las Veges some years back and someone was trying to gain entrance to the place he was staying at about 03:00, he called 911 and reported it and was told it was the police. My brother told them he did not see anyone in uniform and would shoot the first person breaking through the door. They immediately brought in a uniformed officer and he let them in.
    Turned out they had miss identified him as someone that was wanted for armed robbery. No harm no foul!

    This is what I figured would happen if I made a phone call, I can't see an LEO I don't know kicking my door, or at least I figure they would employ my local PD to assist with the warrant and they would confirm some of the warrant info if it was a no knock, the Sherrif's dept would most likely do it and like I said earlier, he was professional and polite until he got the basics covered and we determined my ID and the person he was looking for
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    How about don't be lackadaisical serving warrants? Is that too much to ask? Are you really putting police fups on the citizenry? CCTV, lights, crappy landscaping, and MASSIVE address numbers? Really? A little extra police intel is too much to expect?

    Way to blame the victims....

    This was good info, if they are too dumb to confirm this with this simple inexpensive effort on my part, then they will get the short end of my lawyer. I can see getting into a dicey situation at O'dark thirty, but like Wambli said, lightning strikes. I figure most of us on the forum are the exception to the average homeowner and have actually considered what we would do if our home was breached by a gremlin, unless the LEO is a moron, he/she WILL be talking to me, instead of ramping things up.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • 6EQUJ5 - WOW!6EQUJ5 - WOW! Banned Posts: 482 Member
    CaliFFL wrote: »
    How about don't be lackadaisical serving warrants? Is that too much to ask? Are you really putting police fups on the citizenry? CCTV, lights, crappy landscaping, and MASSIVE address numbers? Really? A little extra police intel is too much to expect?

    Way to blame the victims....

    Agree. I find it laughable that a cop (assuming he really is one) is recommending that I put up security measures, not to deter the criminals mind you, but to make sure the cops don't make a mistake.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,081 Senior Member
    Agree. I find it laughable that a cop (assuming he really is one) is recommending that I put up security measures, not to deter the criminals mind you, but to make sure the cops don't make a mistake.

    Duh, that's why they, the police, are wearing uniform cameras
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
This discussion has been closed.
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