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Form 3 Turnaround Times Coming Down

JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior MemberPosts: 6,557 Senior Member
SilencerShop.com has been reporting as of late that Form 3 (dealer to dealer) times are down to mere days in many cases versus 30-45 days a year ago. This does mean for now that Form 4 purchases will take about a month less.

Apparently the ATF has been segmenting internal divisions for dealing with civilian and government paperwork separately, vastly quickening paperwork processing times. Form 4s and 1s may begin to see similarly proportional drops in processing times as a result.

It's not an NFA repeal by a long shot, but something somewhat positive to come about.
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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Replies

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    Good news...I want a can for my AR in the worst way but the whole BATFEIEIO dance just pisses me off...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Me too, but hoping to skip the $200 fee completely so I'm in no hurry and will wait a little more until it gets sorted out some more. But this is indeed good news!

    You both WILL be in a hurry if the HPA or any reasonable facsimile thereof passes. Suppressors will have unheard of backorder times. Yes it's a PITA to go through the process, but buying your can now will prevent not having one for years.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,147 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    You both WILL be in a hurry if the HPA or any reasonable facsimile thereof passes. Suppressors will have unheard of backorder times. Yes it's a PITA to go through the process, but buying your can now will prevent not having one for years.

    and the parts kits will dry up as well. Especially since it is so cheap and easy to build one.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,089 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    and the parts kits will dry up as well. Especially since it is so cheap and easy to build one.
    Which is why I hope to have a couple of unaltered parts kits on hand soon.
    Can file the form1 and wait, if I want, and if that requirement goes away, just build away.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,147 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Which is why I hope to have a couple of unaltered parts kits on hand soon.
    Can file the form1 and wait, if I want, and if that requirement goes away, just build away.

    I need to do the same thing.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,684 Senior Member
    I am just cash poor, been wanting a good .50 cal can to use on the Beowulf and quiet down the .338 alpha mag a little.
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I won't be. They won't run out of metal, and I won't run out of a lathe...

    :up: No use paying $400+ for $1.50 worth of metal when you can roll your own when and if the HPA passes.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I won't be. They won't run out of metal, and I won't run out of a lathe...


    This becoming an tired argument.

    "I reload so I don't need factory ammo..."

    "I don't need companies, I have a lathe..."

    Welcome to less than 2% of gun owners.

    Now for the remaining 98%...
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,557 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    :up: No use paying $400+ for $1.50 worth of metal when you can roll your own when and if the HPA passes.


    So that $3000+ lathe and $30 in metal.

    Only a $3030 suppressor.

    The second one is only $1515.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,029 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    So that $3000+ lathe and $30 in metal.

    Only a $3030 suppressor.

    The second one is only $1515.

    The nice thing about a lathe is it makes more stuff than a can or two. Car parts, for example. Or obscure plumbing parts. Or spacers. Or....plenty of stuff. Heck, I even made my wife a pair of large diameter knitting needles that weren't commercially available. The closest size (smaller) were $60 each. That's $120 a pair. Half an hour of my time and 10 bucks worth of Delrin.....

    Anyone who owns a lathe and knows how to use it, will recoup the upfront cost PDQ. Same for a mill...especially a mill.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,147 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    So that $3000+ lathe and $30 in metal.

    Only a $3030 suppressor.

    The second one is only $1515.

    Or... an $80 parts kit and a drill press and vise you already have in the garage.

    Link: http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?31762-Form-1-Suppressor-Build&highlight=suppressor
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Sorry, but I do not think legislation to pull suppressors off the NFA list is even on the radar of the idiots in DC ... they are bickering about other stuff way to much. Now that be said somebody does have the raw materials, G-Code and mill & machine availablity just in case. They might just be simple k baffle designs but cost would be around $20 (rimfire) to $30 (centerfire) plus my time. The higher costs to factor would be the LID booster setup for tilting barrel handguns if you go there.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,029 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    This is absolutely true. I'd rather spend the money on equipment all day long...

    The downside isn't the cost of equipment, it's the cost of the tools (and measuring and holding equipment), that's tough. Crunching a $60 carbide endmill because you forgot to lock down your quill while milling a 50 cent part is part of the learning curve, but it can, if you're not careful, make for some mighty steep tuition. And wait till you drop a $300 test indicator.

    Pretty quick you realize the cost of the equipment is the least of the equation.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Nope but I'm hoping pressure will make the BATF drop them as they are already talking about it. Hey might just be a dream, but I really don't need a can tomorrow either, so I can wait to see what's coming.

    Well, the BATF just said they are reviewing their stances in modular suppressors .. basically those you can run in long or short configuration ... and just what "parts" can be "extra". Cans like the Griffin Armament Optimus, Rugged Oculus, AAC Ti Rant could be in trouble ...
    Second, in relation to modular silencers, FATD acknowledged that it currently has pending before it a request for determination of legality from a modular silencer manufacture. Division Chief Griffith and Branch Chief Curtis raised concern over the determination request and the issues that must be addressed, including whether modular silencer are legal, when reduced in size. In essence, the concern stems from there arguably existing additional silencer parts that are not part of the modular silencer’s configuration, when it is reduced in length. In the event that ATF would rule that modular silencers are generally lawful, it raises a plethora of other issues, including where the markings must be placed (which is interrelated to ATF’s currently pending rulemaking: ATF-29P) or whether such silencers would require either specific location markings or multiple markings.

    Oh and they are looking at what the angle limit is on AFGs ...
    First, in relation to vertical/angled foregrips, it was disclosed that FATD has received numerous requests for determination. These requests vary greatly in form and substance and resulted in Branch Chief Curtis stating that some form of determination would be issued to the Firearms Industry; hopefully in the coming weeks. He even mentioned that at this point, the degree of the angled foregrip would have to be addressed in the determination, after review of all past determinations, including ones issued by his predecessors and ones which may be in conflict.



    https://blog.princelaw.com/2017/08/03/breaking-news-atf-to-issue-two-monumental-determinations/
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    JasonMPD wrote: »
    So that $3000+ lathe and $30 in metal.

    Only a $3030 suppressor.

    The second one is only $1515.

    My lathe has more than paid for itself many times over in rifles I've made, in parts I needed RIGHT NOW! for the farm, and for paid work for others. And for $3,000 for a new lathe, you can't get a good entry level one for that. And you haven't bought any tooling, and you really need a milling machine, and tooling. I HAVE both; I HAVE at least 300 feet of metal tubing from 1" to 3" i.d. suitable for the purpose; I have at least 200 feet of various sized 4140 and other hardenable steel rod stock to make the innards. What I lack is the government to get off their dead rear ends and onto their dying feet and pass the HPA. So, WHY should I, why WOULD I, pay some twit to do what I am perfectly capable of doing? Makes no sense whatsoever.

    For that $400+ dollars if I went to the local metals emporium I could buy enough tubing and round stock to make at least 40 suppressors. That's $10 a pop, and I can thread my own danged muzzles to fit them with the suppressors. :roll2:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,029 Senior Member
    I once built a simple washer for my wife's Jeep. It was a dealer item, and it was going to cost around $5. But, it was going to take 7-8 days to get it. 5 bucks wasn't the problem. A week of downtime was.

    It sure helps when you can make things.

    I don't own a mill, nor a lathe, but if I'd know what I know now, I'd have foregone the boats, cars, and wild women I wasted a lot of money on.

    Good times come and go. A Bridgeport lasts.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,089 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm not giving up my boat, I like my car and I married the wildest woman I ever met. Does that mean I'm doomed? :tooth:
    If you ever cross her it does :yikes:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,731 Senior Member
    I'm not mechanically inclined. Which is why I pay to have things made. I have problems running a drill press.

    I've got all the silencers I need so I won't be buying any more...maybe. I agree there will not be a glut of suppressors on the market because of the market for them, which will be brisk when they're no longer an "item."
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    I don't own a mill, nor a lathe- - - - -Good times come and go. A Bridgeport lasts.

    I've got 4 general purpose lathes, one brake drum/disc lathe, two Bridgeports, a valve seat and guide machine, a valve and seat grinder, two cylinder boring bars, a Sunnen hone, three welders, and a bead blaster. All I need is enough time and money to get them all set up and tooled properly, and enough shop space to get everything set up and running!
    Jerry
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,029 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    I've got 4 general purpose lathes, one brake drum/disc lathe, two Bridgeports, a valve seat and guide machine, a valve and seat grinder, two cylinder boring bars, a Sunnen hone, three welders, and a bead blaster. All I need is enough time and money to get them all set up and tooled properly, and enough shop space to get everything set up and running!
    Jerry

    Heat treat oven..and plenty of tooling wrap, and there's nothing you can't build with that lineup.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,029 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm not giving up my boat, I like my car and I married the wildest woman I ever met. Does that mean I'm doomed? :tooth:

    It depends on what you need at the time. ;)

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    He's already got that in the form of a ceramic kiln....

    I'm not getting in on either side of this argument. I can see both sides. I'm probably not going out and buying a lathe or any serious equipment, but I will say this. What's money got to do with it? If you get pleasure out of working with one and you have the funds to buy the equipment it's like everything else on this forum. It's not really about need. It's about want. If it was need and it was all about justifying money spent, then I would have a 5 gun safe with 4 gun inside.

    If you're like me and living off retirement and SS you don't have the coins to be doing that. But if you had a source of income and a good savings piled up hey get after it to your hearts content.

    Edited to Add: If I had that kind of money and wanted to build a shop it would be full of auto mechanic tools and I'd be building engines and sticking them in Hotrods. I've got me a gun smith I like and I'm too old to be learning new skills. Or too lazy to. And I love working on engines and trannys. I love hot rods. I love to shoot and hunt and I appreciate fine guns, but I'm not into doing the work myself. As long as there's people like Teach, TennMike, Big Al, and cpj out there, I'll let them enjoy building the guns. I'll stick to enjoying shooting and hunting with them.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Heat treat oven..and plenty of tooling wrap, and there's nothing you can't build with that lineup.

    Mike

    I have an 18"x18"x18" inside measurement electric heat treat oven I bought from Brownell's back in the early 1990's. And stainless steel foil was cheap back then so I bought lots of it at the time. I was working a lot of forced overtime back then and 72 hour weeks were normal, and I wasn't married, and I had no outstanding debt, so I bought stuff for the shop. The oven has an inlet hole for inert gas, and I use nitrogen to keep out the O2. Doesn't take much at all to do that either.

    And a note on the stainless steel foil; it's thicker than aluminum foil, and will cut right through a leather glove and slice your finger open in the process.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,029 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »

    And a note on the stainless steel foil; it's thicker than aluminum foil, and will cut right through a leather glove and slice your finger open in the process.

    Glad to learn I'm not the only one who knows that.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Glad to learn I'm not the only one who knows that.

    Mike

    I think working with that stuff is an experience everyone should have at least once. It's like working with razor blades by the yard and ALL edges are sharp! :roll2:
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,029 Senior Member
    Have you ever noticed that when you open a heat treat oven at 1800F the air sparkles inside it?

    I thought it was oxygen burning until I figured out there's just that much dust in the air. Even "clean" air.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,610 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Have you ever noticed that when you open a heat treat oven at 1800F the air sparkles inside it?

    I thought it was oxygen burning until I figured out there's just that much dust in the air. Even "clean" air.

    Mike


    Makes sense.
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Linefinder wrote: »
    Have you ever noticed that when you open a heat treat oven at 1800F the air sparkles inside it?

    I thought it was oxygen burning until I figured out there's just that much dust in the air. Even "clean" air.

    Mike

    Yeah, when you're doing the initial heat treat and the temperature is 'up there' there is a lot of sparkly bits flashing when you open the door and the colder air rushes in. My shop is far from 'cleanroom' clean, so there's lots of dust floating around, and pollen from the trees and bushes outside.

    As a side note on heat treat ovens, I wear TWO pair of safety eye equipment when opening the door. A pair of safety glasses with side shields, and a full coverage face mask. The blast of heat out of those things when you open the door is intense, and if someone is wearing contact lenses, it's really important to wear the doubled up vision protection. The melting point of contact lenses is pretty low. My oven isn't that big, but the heat is there and more than you want working unobstructed on your face and eyes.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    If the HPA passes, there is a good possibility that DIY kits will be available that will require not much work to complete. There are already some out there doing the kit thing now with the attending tax stamp and the 'mother, may I' permission slips. If the law is changed, the aluminum flashlight body suppressors will be replaced by more substantial steel ones with more efficient 'innards'.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,731 Senior Member
    You don't really need a steel body for a suppressor. That would make it extremely barrel heavy. What you do need is volume, which again argues for aluminum in most guns.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
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