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JasonMPD
Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
Form 3 Turnaround Times Coming Down
JasonMPD
Posts: 6,583 Senior Member
SilencerShop.com has been reporting as of late that Form 3 (dealer to dealer) times are down to mere days in many cases versus 30-45 days a year ago. This does mean for now that Form 4 purchases will take about a month less.
Apparently the ATF has been segmenting internal divisions for dealing with civilian and government paperwork separately, vastly quickening paperwork processing times. Form 4s and 1s may begin to see similarly proportional drops in processing times as a result.
It's not an NFA repeal by a long shot, but something somewhat positive to come about.
Apparently the ATF has been segmenting internal divisions for dealing with civilian and government paperwork separately, vastly quickening paperwork processing times. Form 4s and 1s may begin to see similarly proportional drops in processing times as a result.
It's not an NFA repeal by a long shot, but something somewhat positive to come about.
“There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
Replies
You both WILL be in a hurry if the HPA or any reasonable facsimile thereof passes. Suppressors will have unheard of backorder times. Yes it's a PITA to go through the process, but buying your can now will prevent not having one for years.
and the parts kits will dry up as well. Especially since it is so cheap and easy to build one.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
I need to do the same thing.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
AKA: Former Founding Member
:up: No use paying $400+ for $1.50 worth of metal when you can roll your own when and if the HPA passes.
― Douglas Adams
This becoming an tired argument.
"I reload so I don't need factory ammo..."
"I don't need companies, I have a lathe..."
Welcome to less than 2% of gun owners.
Now for the remaining 98%...
So that $3000+ lathe and $30 in metal.
Only a $3030 suppressor.
The second one is only $1515.
The nice thing about a lathe is it makes more stuff than a can or two. Car parts, for example. Or obscure plumbing parts. Or spacers. Or....plenty of stuff. Heck, I even made my wife a pair of large diameter knitting needles that weren't commercially available. The closest size (smaller) were $60 each. That's $120 a pair. Half an hour of my time and 10 bucks worth of Delrin.....
Anyone who owns a lathe and knows how to use it, will recoup the upfront cost PDQ. Same for a mill...especially a mill.
Mike
N454casull
Or... an $80 parts kit and a drill press and vise you already have in the garage.
Link: http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?31762-Form-1-Suppressor-Build&highlight=suppressor
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
- George Orwell
The downside isn't the cost of equipment, it's the cost of the tools (and measuring and holding equipment), that's tough. Crunching a $60 carbide endmill because you forgot to lock down your quill while milling a 50 cent part is part of the learning curve, but it can, if you're not careful, make for some mighty steep tuition. And wait till you drop a $300 test indicator.
Pretty quick you realize the cost of the equipment is the least of the equation.
Mike
N454casull
Well, the BATF just said they are reviewing their stances in modular suppressors .. basically those you can run in long or short configuration ... and just what "parts" can be "extra". Cans like the Griffin Armament Optimus, Rugged Oculus, AAC Ti Rant could be in trouble ...
Oh and they are looking at what the angle limit is on AFGs ...
https://blog.princelaw.com/2017/08/03/breaking-news-atf-to-issue-two-monumental-determinations/
- George Orwell
My lathe has more than paid for itself many times over in rifles I've made, in parts I needed RIGHT NOW! for the farm, and for paid work for others. And for $3,000 for a new lathe, you can't get a good entry level one for that. And you haven't bought any tooling, and you really need a milling machine, and tooling. I HAVE both; I HAVE at least 300 feet of metal tubing from 1" to 3" i.d. suitable for the purpose; I have at least 200 feet of various sized 4140 and other hardenable steel rod stock to make the innards. What I lack is the government to get off their dead rear ends and onto their dying feet and pass the HPA. So, WHY should I, why WOULD I, pay some twit to do what I am perfectly capable of doing? Makes no sense whatsoever.
For that $400+ dollars if I went to the local metals emporium I could buy enough tubing and round stock to make at least 40 suppressors. That's $10 a pop, and I can thread my own danged muzzles to fit them with the suppressors. :roll2:
― Douglas Adams
It sure helps when you can make things.
I don't own a mill, nor a lathe, but if I'd know what I know now, I'd have foregone the boats, cars, and wild women I wasted a lot of money on.
Good times come and go. A Bridgeport lasts.
Mike
N454casull
I've got all the silencers I need so I won't be buying any more...maybe. I agree there will not be a glut of suppressors on the market because of the market for them, which will be brisk when they're no longer an "item."
I've got 4 general purpose lathes, one brake drum/disc lathe, two Bridgeports, a valve seat and guide machine, a valve and seat grinder, two cylinder boring bars, a Sunnen hone, three welders, and a bead blaster. All I need is enough time and money to get them all set up and tooled properly, and enough shop space to get everything set up and running!
Jerry
Heat treat oven..and plenty of tooling wrap, and there's nothing you can't build with that lineup.
Mike
N454casull
It depends on what you need at the time.
Mike
N454casull
I'm not getting in on either side of this argument. I can see both sides. I'm probably not going out and buying a lathe or any serious equipment, but I will say this. What's money got to do with it? If you get pleasure out of working with one and you have the funds to buy the equipment it's like everything else on this forum. It's not really about need. It's about want. If it was need and it was all about justifying money spent, then I would have a 5 gun safe with 4 gun inside.
If you're like me and living off retirement and SS you don't have the coins to be doing that. But if you had a source of income and a good savings piled up hey get after it to your hearts content.
Edited to Add: If I had that kind of money and wanted to build a shop it would be full of auto mechanic tools and I'd be building engines and sticking them in Hotrods. I've got me a gun smith I like and I'm too old to be learning new skills. Or too lazy to. And I love working on engines and trannys. I love hot rods. I love to shoot and hunt and I appreciate fine guns, but I'm not into doing the work myself. As long as there's people like Teach, TennMike, Big Al, and cpj out there, I'll let them enjoy building the guns. I'll stick to enjoying shooting and hunting with them.
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
I have an 18"x18"x18" inside measurement electric heat treat oven I bought from Brownell's back in the early 1990's. And stainless steel foil was cheap back then so I bought lots of it at the time. I was working a lot of forced overtime back then and 72 hour weeks were normal, and I wasn't married, and I had no outstanding debt, so I bought stuff for the shop. The oven has an inlet hole for inert gas, and I use nitrogen to keep out the O2. Doesn't take much at all to do that either.
And a note on the stainless steel foil; it's thicker than aluminum foil, and will cut right through a leather glove and slice your finger open in the process.
― Douglas Adams
Glad to learn I'm not the only one who knows that.
Mike
N454casull
I think working with that stuff is an experience everyone should have at least once. It's like working with razor blades by the yard and ALL edges are sharp! :roll2:
― Douglas Adams
I thought it was oxygen burning until I figured out there's just that much dust in the air. Even "clean" air.
Mike
N454casull
Makes sense.
George Carlin
Yeah, when you're doing the initial heat treat and the temperature is 'up there' there is a lot of sparkly bits flashing when you open the door and the colder air rushes in. My shop is far from 'cleanroom' clean, so there's lots of dust floating around, and pollen from the trees and bushes outside.
As a side note on heat treat ovens, I wear TWO pair of safety eye equipment when opening the door. A pair of safety glasses with side shields, and a full coverage face mask. The blast of heat out of those things when you open the door is intense, and if someone is wearing contact lenses, it's really important to wear the doubled up vision protection. The melting point of contact lenses is pretty low. My oven isn't that big, but the heat is there and more than you want working unobstructed on your face and eyes.
― Douglas Adams
― Douglas Adams
Gene, there are MANY reasons why a steel outer shell is a superior choice to aluminum. And stainless steel is superior to carbon steel. The biggest advantage is that steel tubing can be used that is thinner and still provide more inherent strength than aluminum tubing, which has to be thicker to provide the same strength. The other readily obvious reason of steel over aluminum is that steel has a much higher ability to resist flame cutting. For .22 rimfire, aluminum is just fine. Outside that, I will have steel, or nothing.
― Douglas Adams
George Carlin