Confederate symbols and "southern pride"

alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior MemberPosts: 7,991 Senior Member
I see the rise in popularity of Confederate symbols, especially outside of the south ( in places like the Midwest for example) as a reaction to the multi-culturalism of the left. These symbols are no longer just "southern pride". More accurately they're now symbols of rural, white, working class pride. The left see this as simple racism, because actually they see almost everything as racism. What they fail to recognize is that, if they intend to or not, they have pushed a culture in which all other cultures should be accepted and celebrated except for working class white culture. Confederate symbols serve multiple purposes in that they both act as symbols indicating support for this now taboo culture while also intentionally inflaming the PC culture warriors who have rejected them and their culture.

I'm not sure I have any further point. I just came to this understanding while thinking about everything going on right now. It feels somehow important. Then again I'm sure the general cultural dialogue will continue to be dominated by people on the extremes shouting past each other.
"Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
-DoctorWho
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Replies

  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,991 Senior Member
    Dang it, I meant this to be in 2a. Can someone help and move this?
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,873 Senior Member
    Yep...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I think that people concerned with these thing are so small in number as to be of almost of no consequence at all. Politicians, fringe groups, and propagandists have latched on to this and other matters of insignificance in order to distract and manipulate the attention enough people to further their social and political agendas. Hyperbolic balderdash has made an entire mountain range from a ant hill. JMO.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,084 Senior Member
    "Deja Vu All Over Again- - - - - - -" Parts of the country get marginalized and maligned by other parts, and they respond by rebelling- - - - -the only difference now is that it's not a north/south divide any more. It will be harder for the power brokers to invade, slaughter, and subjugate this bunch of rebels.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,024 Senior Member
    To me this is a multi faceted movement or culture. Some are just racist, although I think that facet of this culture is the smallest part of it. They are disdained by most of us.

    Then you have those that are just proud to be part of the Southern thing, and are all into into the Stars and Bars and other various symbols and paraphernalia and reinactments. This is the group you are referring to, and it's about Southern Pride and being proud of all things Southern. This is kin to Nationalism, Having pride in your country or your part of it.

    Then you have the part most of us belong to, being proud of your ancestors that fought in the Civil War even though they fought on the so called "Wrong Side." It's about being proud of our Ancestors. I had several ancestors that fought for the South. My dad's great grandfather, Captain George Walker, rode the entire Civil War with Nathan Bedford Forrest. He named one of his sons; my great grandfather, William Bedford Walker, in honor of his serving with Forrest. He had great respect for Forrest as a military leader. That's why he named his son after him. There's other reasons people are hung up on the South. But I think these are the three main groups of this culture.

    To call them all racist is wrong in my opinion. There is a place in history for the South's Generals and fighting men. Most of the people in this group are caught up in the movement for more honorable reasons than racism. In fact the slavery part is counter to my religious beliefs. It is a spoiler for me. It is the part that makes my Southern pride bittersweet. I don't know how to tell somebody that I'm proud of my ancestors but I disdain a part of what they were fighting for. Therefore it's bittersweet.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,653 Senior Member
    " What they fail to recognize is that, if they intend to or not, they have pushed a culture in which all other cultures should be accepted and celebrated except for working class white culture."


    Winner winner chicken dinner.

    They may or may not realize it but....THEY are the ones perpetuating racism. I'm so sick of being labeled as _____(fill in the blank with whatever group they seem to be hating on at the moment) that I'm more apt to BE that person.
    In reality, I won't be that person. It's not who I am. But what it HAS done is cause me to not give one single solitary flip about ________(whoever is being oppressed, real or imagined)
    Honestly I'm not going to hate, I simply I don't care .
    Of course that will be considered hate so...
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,291 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    , I simply I don't care .
    Of course that will be considered hate so...
    Apatheticists arise, or not. We could use blank sheets of paper for the march signs.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,288 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    They may or may not realize it but....THEY are the ones perpetuating racism. I'm so sick of being labeled as _____(fill in the blank with whatever group they seem to be hating on at the moment) that I'm more apt to BE that person.
    In reality, I won't be that person. It's not who I am. But what it HAS done is cause me to not give one single solitary flip about ________(whoever is being oppressed, real or imagined)
    Honestly I'm not going to hate, I simply I don't care .
    Of course that will be considered hate so...

    Agreed. All this crying and hand wringing destroys any credibility the whatever ____________ may (or may not) have had.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,647 Senior Member
    Take all of the real and imagined issues of the Civil War off the table for a moment. Much of human history is one group wanting to be free of the influences of another.

    The national precedent set by the events of 1776-1783 was that the offended group could leave.

    It took 600,000 casualties in 1861-1865 to establish that the monarchy - of sorts - had just moved 3,000 miles closer. It was all kicked off to preserve a Union, and the Union didn't want to be preserved. Rodney King so famously asked "Why can't we all just get along?" - because we weren't wired to then, and we aren't wired to now. Uncle Abe managed to win the fight against our nature at the time because the lines were geographical as well as ideological. The Civil War set the precedent that all the "metals in our melting pot" somehow HAVE to alloy, but any bullet caster will tell you that getting some new zinc wheelweights in your bucket of lead ones only gives you a lumpy mess that you can't accomplish ANYTHING with.

    I think what we've got with this country is basically a Yugoslavia of 320 million people, each of whom might fit somewhat into one of a number of groups that may or may not get along to varying extremes. I don't necessarily see large scale hostilities, but I sure don't anticipate bliss anytime soon.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,264 Senior Member
    Apatheticists arise, or not. We could use blank sheets of paper for the march signs.
    Ok that's the funniest thing I've read in this Forum in a long time :rotflmao:
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 8,609 Senior Member
    The Confederate flags aren't MORE popular now. You are just noticing them more because of the current events......
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,291 Senior Member
    And again, FYI. No one should be able to tell you what you can fly on your property, and NO ONE should be allowed to tear down or disgrace ANY monument that reflects a pivotal time in our history. Most of the flag waving is being done by fools who grew up watching to much Dukes of Hazzard, but some understand it.

    Now I am not going to whistle Dixie even if Teach sings Battle Hymm Of the Republic for a lot of the same reasons, but I will stand right next to him in front of a Confederate memorial. To tear it down disrespects the memory of the folks who fought against it as much as the folks who fought for it. We have to learn by all of our mistakes, errors and trials by fire. If we dont.... well, you know the rest.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • WheelWheel Member Posts: 102 Member
    I'm offended by statues of union generals.

    By the way, what the media calls "The Civil War" was what my folks called "the recent unpleasantness".

    Now, my people call it "The War Between the States".

    I say we tear down all statues of Union Generals, and rewrite history books to please my particular sensibilities.


    "Whether this book is good or bad, only the reader can judge, certainly if bad it is not from lack of experience".
    Elmer Keith
    (last line of his Introduction to "Sixguns by Keith")
  • WheelWheel Member Posts: 102 Member
    I'm offended by statues of union generals.

    By the way, what the media calls "The Civil War" was what my folks called "the recent unpleasantness".

    Now, my people call it "The War Between the States".

    I say we tear down all statues of Union Generals, and rewrite history books to please my particular sensibilities.


    "Whether this book is good or bad, only the reader can judge, certainly if bad it is not from lack of experience".
    Elmer Keith
    (last line of his Introduction to "Sixguns by Keith")
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,024 Senior Member
    There's some good stuff here written by everyone in the Forum. I agree with everybody that posted here to some extent. But one problem here is that it makes no difference what we say. cpj says he doesn't care, well, The other side, the guys pulling down our monuments don't care either. It's their excuse to get their licks in on people they consider privileged at their expense. Just more from the age old battle between the haves and the have nots.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,991 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    The Confederate flags aren't MORE popular now. You are just noticing them more because of the current events......
    I think they're more popular now outside the south than they were. They've always been popular in the south. I rarely saw them in places that weren't part of the Confederacy. Now you'll see them on pick up trucks in OH, PA, IN etc.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,727 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    The Confederate flags aren't MORE popular now. You are just noticing them more because of the current events......

    Funny thing, last night I picked the wife up at the airport. She was TDY at NCTC in West Virginia. She took some extra time to visit her Mom near Gettysburg.
    The opinion of people of all races is, Teat down one of our monuments and get shot.
    As for symbols, she brought me home a hat. Guess what is on it? Crossed Stars and Stripes and Confederate flags, purchased for the thought that all can now get along just fine, except for these idiots stirring up the mindless morons.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    ...I'm not sure I have any further point. I just came to this understanding while thinking about everything going on right now. It feels somehow important. Then again I'm sure the general cultural dialogue will continue to be dominated by people on the extremes shouting past each other.

    The second bolded part is the point and you should be searching for the reason, and the source. The 'fringe' groups of the left are bursting out of the fringes and becoming the left's mainstream, and the absurdity of it all is attracting the fringes on the right, because they want their fifteen minutes of fame, too.

    Someone is being exploited by someone, in an effort to harm someone else. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to figure out who the someones are, and what their agenda is.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,553 Senior Member
    I think they're more popular now outside the south than they were. They've always been popular in the south. I rarely saw them in places that weren't part of the Confederacy. Now you'll see them on pick up trucks in OH, PA, IN etc.

    If you see them in Noo Yawk, then you would have something. :silly:
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,288 Senior Member
    And here is Obama's legacy.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,063 Senior Member
    My opinion of the secession of the states (South's motivations) are two fold. One is the immoral economic standing of maintaining slaves. The second and overshadowing principle of State's rights. Slavery was just an included issue of the southern economy and not THE reason for war. That being said (not trying to start a commentary war here) I like seeing confederate statues and flags. It shows to me that the rebellious spirit against overbearing government and agendas lives on. No one today wants to own another human being for free labor. It's absurd for the left to insinuate otherwise; especially since they are the group using blacks as a voter stock by enslaving them to the welfare and entitlements system.

    The left claims they fight against the system, yet they ARE THE SYSTEM.
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,084 Senior Member
    For the most part those statues were erected by democrats. They are the most hypocritical bunch that ever existed.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,991 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    For the most part those statues were erected by democrats. They are the most hypocritical bunch that ever existed.
    Jerry
    I get your point but yesterday's Democrats are today's Republicans. The people who voted for those Democrats are the same people who voted for Trump. There are no "blue dog Democrats" anymore. They're all Republicans.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,084 Senior Member
    Orval Faubus
    Lester Maddox
    Ross Barnett
    George Wallace
    Robert Byrd
    Ray Nagin
    Gavin Newsome
    Richard Daley
    Rahm Emmanuel
    Bill DeBlasio

    :uhm::uhm::uhm::uhm:
    I don't see a whole lot of difference! They're all a bunch of corrupt manipulators pandering to whatever group of voters will keep them nursing at the public teat!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 377 Member
    I get your point but yesterday's Democrats are today's Republicans. The people who voted for those Democrats are the same people who voted for Trump. There are no "blue dog Democrats" anymore. They're all Republicans.
    Many different yesterdays in the past.
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,553 Senior Member
    I get your point but yesterday's Democrats are today's Republicans. The people who voted for those Democrats are the same people who voted for Trump. There are no "blue dog Democrats" anymore. They're all Republicans.

    What a load of horsepucky. If there was a conversion, it was only a small percentage because of economic reasons. The fact is, the democrats had to be dragged kicking and screaming into voting for and passing equal rights laws back in the 60's, and it's a fact that Republicans were responsible for drafting the legislation way before it was eventually passed by democrats.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,027 Senior Member
    ....

    Now I am not going to whistle Dixie even if Teach sings Battle Hymm Of the Republic for a lot of the same reasons, but I will stand right next to him in front of a Confederate memorial. To tear it down disrespects the memory of the folks who fought against it as much as the folks who fought for it. We have to learn by all of our mistakes, errors and trials by fire. If we dont.... well, you know the rest.

    There you go. Remember is not the same as idolizing. The bad should be noted as well as the good. Don't like the statue then put up one of Harriet Tubman, or other abolitionists and balance the playing field.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,991 Senior Member
    What a load of horsepucky. If there was a conversion, it was only a small percentage because of economic reasons. The fact is, the democrats had to be dragged kicking and screaming into voting for and passing equal rights laws back in the 60's, and it's a fact that Republicans were responsible for drafting the legislation way before it was eventually passed by democrats.
    "Blue Dogs" or dixiecrats are a dying breed. Those people are all Republicans now. A perfect illustration of the shift is Strom Thurmond. He was a Democrat until 64 and a Republican after. His political views didn't really change, the parties did. For the record of the Republican party was still the party that almost elected Goldwater I'd probably be a Republican today.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,553 Senior Member
    "Blue Dogs" or dixiecrats are a dying breed. Those people are all Republicans now. A perfect illustration of the shift is Strom Thurmond. He was a Democrat until 64 and a Republican after. His political views didn't really change, the parties did. For the record of the Republican party was still the party that almost elected Goldwater I'd probably be a Republican today.

    That, I agree with. There weren't that many left in the Democrat party after JFK was assassinated. I was a JFK democrat in the early 60's but became totally disillusioned with their leftward lurch in the mid to late 60's. After that, I went through a period of voting for only Libertarian presidential candidates, before realizing they couldn't win on a national level and started voting Republican.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,255 Senior Member
    back to the original topic - I have noticed that the Gadsen and Gonzalez flags seem to be taking the place of the 'stars and bars' with people who want to tell the left to go pound sand, but don't want to be seen as a racist
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
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