Ned, it sounds like you're a politician- - - - -one of our senators from Tennessee followed almost an identical track- - - -became politically active while still in college, never had a real job, and is in his early 80's now. He's not worth the cost of the rope it would take to hang him!
At least you helped make it possible for him, and a lot of yellow-bellied cowards like him to live free enough to do that!
Jerry
No matter how many colleges churn out students with BS degrees, and a lot of them are a load of BS, there will still be a great need for robotics mechanics and programmers, CNC machining programmers/operators, electricians, plumbers, welders, home builders, auto mechanics, and a LOT of other jobs that pay a good living wage out the gate with minimal education loan outlay. If everyone worked in a cubicle farm, a.k.a. prairie dog town, then who would build, fix, and manufacture the things civilization needs to survive?
“I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer” ― Douglas Adams
I have to take some exception to that.
Just my 2 cents, but based on 40 years of experience.
No one ever said a 4y degree is a bad thing. However a 4 year degree is not the ONLY thing. You took Comp Sci, do you have any idea of how many kids are taking Psychology as a major? They will be in debt up the wazoo and unemployed. They are taking it because it is easy and they were told that a 4Y or better deg is the ONLY way to make it.
I wont make as much as my sister has, no way, no how. She has a masters in mech eng from MIT. But with my piddly 2y asso. that has the word TECH in it has stood me alright.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
No one ever said a 4y degree is a bad thing. However a 4 year degree is not the ONLY thing. You took Comp Sci, do you have any idea of how many kids are taking Psychology as a major? They will be in debt up the wazoo and unemployed. They are taking it because it is easy and they were told that a 4Y or better deg is the ONLY way to make it.
I wont make as much as my sister has, no way, no how. She has a masters in mech eng from MIT. But with my piddly 2y asso. that has the word TECH in it has stood me alright.
Ahhhhh.
Go read my last response to CPJ, please.
Jerry
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
Somewhere along the way there needs to be a skilled technician around to adapt the engineers' pipe dreams to become something that actually works. One of the most entertaining auto mechanics night classes I ever taught included five young General Motors automotive engineers as students. When they built the Saturn assembly plant in Spring Hill Tennessee, somebody in upper management decided that a bunch of rookie mechanical engineers who had just graduated from the GM technical institute needed some hands-on experienced at actually fixing cars. That 10-week class was a hoot!
Jerry
While I have nothing against a 4 year degree (both my daughters have them ) not everyone is collage material, I can only use myself as an example, I have made a very good living in all my endeavors, and i might add I quit high school.
As far as Mike Rowe is concerned, I am a big fan of him and his shows.
JAY
THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
Jerms post wasnt anti degree. It is anti the mindset that one must have a 4y to be anything.
These poor kids go through school thinking that you have to go to college and get a degree in order to be successful in life. So what we got is a bunch of kids with huge student loan debts working as well educated baristas. I tried and tried to tell my step-daughters, but they wasted their time and money screwing around-- thinking they had to get bachelor degrees. So there they sat-- not enough college to make them employable beyond entry level jobs, and no skills making their time more valuable.
Its not the kids, or the degree. It is the religion of the educators that says one MUST have a degree. I went through the early parts of the indoctrination. I had a "guidance councilor" (first name Sylvia, wont forget her) tell me that I would never amount to anything since I chose to not go to college out of HS. I would love to see what my net worth was in comparison to hers at the same age she told me that, in todays or those days dollars. I have no heartache with getting a degree. The wife has one, the #1 daughter is about to have one and the son is 1/4th of the way into one.
The problem is not that degrees are bad, just that they are not the only way to go. That is the premise of what Rowe talks about and you have to read Jerms remarks in that context.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
For some real entertainment, take one of the guys (or girls) with a master's degree in Pre-Colombian sexual fetishes, or something similar, hand 'em a skilsaw, a tool belt, and a truckload of 2X4's, and tell them to frame their own house! Then bring in some pipe, some wire and circuit breakers, a HVAC system, and some carpet. Sit back and watch the emotional meltdown!
:rotflmao:
Jerry
These two paragraphs pretty well sum up my education to date. In HS everything was geared towards getting us into college (turns out the schools are graded on that). I knew college was not for me, nothing about college interested me, I could not see anything but riding a desk coming from graduating college. I wasn't motivated enough to graduate college.
Really I knew the chances were I would drop out after a semester or two and end up working in the same factory everyone works in. Nothing wrong with the place, but Dad would have strangled me. He works there too.
So I joined the Navy. The Navy taught me Industrial Electric Maintenance and I love it. When I got out and moved back to OK I got a job in a grain elevator as an Electrian. I get to enough of the troubleshooting and building simple systems that I enjoy to keep it interesting and I get to do some Millwright work as well.
I make a good living, probably won't get rich but my family has a roof, beds, and three hots a day. College is not for everyone.
Your experience is similar to mine. I achieved an associates degree in law enforcement which I have never used except to list it when applying for a civil service job. I had a stay at home Mom who sent me to first grade with a fourth grade education. Mostly in reading. In second grade I picked a book at the library and the librarian said "No honey. That book is for the older kids." My second grade teacher overheard and asked me to open the book and read a paragraph. The librarian said "honey, you can check out any book you want". I ended up doing OK money wise working for Toro Irrigation and a Buick dealer in Southern California. I joined Army National Guard Aviation in 1977 and was a commercial driver for Purolator Courier back in Oregon. When that failed (not my fault). I applied for everything. Bingo! I landed a Federal civil service (DoD) National Guard job for about 20 years. I also ended up doing fine financially. Last November my state passed a ballot measure by a landslide to return vocational classes to high schools and colleges.
.
I started to make this a new thread. But, I thought I would at least start in this one since it is about college vs no college, trades, etc. I'll start a new thread if I find more videos.
As I was talking to my school district's superintendent the subject somehow turned to robotics. He told me about a furniture factory in NYC he toured a couple of years ago that is assembling furniture using robots. He went on to tell me about how robotics was beginning to enter the home construction industry.
Here is a video of a robotic brick laying machine. In a few years I can can see robots loading the bricks, mixing the mortar and cleaning/pointing the bricks.
Pretty slick! And I bet there will be a need for someone with less than a 4 year degree to set up and maintain that machine-- and it will probably pay a good living wage.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
You can become rich driving a old truck and picking up garbage and trash. Wayne Huizenga started his own business with one old dump truck hauling trash, he got new accounts during the day and drove the truck at night. He started Waste Management.
Harry Wayne Huizenga is an American businessman and entrepreneur. He has been involved in the founding of three Fortune 500 corporations and is responsible for six New York Stock Exchange listed companies. He has also been an owner of three top tier professional sports franchises.
I started to make this a new thread. But, I thought I would at least start in this one since it is about college vs no college, trades, etc. I'll start a new thread if I find more videos.
As I was talking to my school district's superintendent the subject somehow turned to robotics. He told me about a furniture factory in NYC he toured a couple of years ago that is assembling furniture using robots. He went on to tell me about how robotics was beginning to enter the home construction industry.
Here is a video of a robotic brick laying machine. In a few years I can can see robots loading the bricks, mixing the mortar and cleaning/pointing the bricks.
That is cool. What is the start up cost to get one? How many man hours does it take to build and level the scaffold? I didnt see where the machine indexed up. Is that a feature that costs more or is that more man hours?
Sure a brick laying machine is neat, and it will likely only used in very large scale building because it would not be cost effective to transport, set up and feed that thing for anything less than a stadium.
Oh, and when they break? The lady on the phone will say "The technician will be there shortly"
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
I got a 2 year vocational degree from Lamar University in Diesel Engines in May, 1972. I worked for several dredging companies for a few years before going to work at Union Carbide in 1975. I never really used that vocational degree once I went to work at Carbide. I worked there 28 years and retired. In 2007 I had the bright idea I'd go back to school on line. So I signed up at Kaplan University in the Legal Studies program. Four years later I got a bachelors in Legal Studies. I haven't made a penny with it to date, but it was truly an accomplishment. I had planned on trying law school when I got out of Kaplan but I didn't want any more student loans at my age. I've had a couple of opportunities to work but I was taking care of my mother up until her death in October, 2016. Now I'm putting off working until I get my bride over here which I'm hoping will happen within the next couple months. Then I'll send out my resume and try to get a job as a paralegal. So this degree will help me. I don't recommend a 4 year degree for everyone. I know people with an 8th grade education that have been very successful. It's as much of what you're born with as it is education. In the end it depends on how much you want something.
Daddy, what's an enabler?
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
Replies
At least you helped make it possible for him, and a lot of yellow-bellied cowards like him to live free enough to do that!
Jerry
No matter how many colleges churn out students with BS degrees, and a lot of them are a load of BS, there will still be a great need for robotics mechanics and programmers, CNC machining programmers/operators, electricians, plumbers, welders, home builders, auto mechanics, and a LOT of other jobs that pay a good living wage out the gate with minimal education loan outlay. If everyone worked in a cubicle farm, a.k.a. prairie dog town, then who would build, fix, and manufacture the things civilization needs to survive?
― Douglas Adams
So is Michael Dell
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
I wont make as much as my sister has, no way, no how. She has a masters in mech eng from MIT. But with my piddly 2y asso. that has the word TECH in it has stood me alright.
Ahhhhh.
Go read my last response to CPJ, please.
Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
Jerry
As far as Mike Rowe is concerned, I am a big fan of him and his shows.
JAY
Jerms post wasnt anti degree. It is anti the mindset that one must have a 4y to be anything.
Its not the kids, or the degree. It is the religion of the educators that says one MUST have a degree. I went through the early parts of the indoctrination. I had a "guidance councilor" (first name Sylvia, wont forget her) tell me that I would never amount to anything since I chose to not go to college out of HS. I would love to see what my net worth was in comparison to hers at the same age she told me that, in todays or those days dollars. I have no heartache with getting a degree. The wife has one, the #1 daughter is about to have one and the son is 1/4th of the way into one.
The problem is not that degrees are bad, just that they are not the only way to go. That is the premise of what Rowe talks about and you have to read Jerms remarks in that context.
:rotflmao:
Jerry
.
I started to make this a new thread. But, I thought I would at least start in this one since it is about college vs no college, trades, etc. I'll start a new thread if I find more videos.
As I was talking to my school district's superintendent the subject somehow turned to robotics. He told me about a furniture factory in NYC he toured a couple of years ago that is assembling furniture using robots. He went on to tell me about how robotics was beginning to enter the home construction industry.
Here is a video of a robotic brick laying machine. In a few years I can can see robots loading the bricks, mixing the mortar and cleaning/pointing the bricks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDRCWnsFnC4
Jerry
Eventually I imagine it will be self leveling. But yes, some site.prep will be required.
Harry Wayne Huizenga is an American businessman and entrepreneur. He has been involved in the founding of three Fortune 500 corporations and is responsible for six New York Stock Exchange listed companies. He has also been an owner of three top tier professional sports franchises.
That is cool. What is the start up cost to get one? How many man hours does it take to build and level the scaffold? I didnt see where the machine indexed up. Is that a feature that costs more or is that more man hours?
Sure a brick laying machine is neat, and it will likely only used in very large scale building because it would not be cost effective to transport, set up and feed that thing for anything less than a stadium.
Oh, and when they break? The lady on the phone will say "The technician will be there shortly"
Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.