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Those sneaky folks at Lyman!

TeachTeach Senior MemberPosts: 18,428 Senior Member
Most of us bullet casters are familiar with the popular lubricator/sizer, the Lyman 450. It's been around about 3 days past forever, and it's very reliable. It does have a couple of chronic problems, though. Lube has a habit of leaking past some of the O rings and getting into places it shouldn't, and the jackscrew that pushes the lube into the sizing die will eventually wear out and strip. "No problem- - - -I'll just make a new one, and change some O rings while I'm in there!"

Guess again, Jerry! Those sneaky dudes made the jackscrew thread an oddball pitch- - - -3/8"-20! The usual 3/8" thread pitches are 16 (coarse) and 24 (fine). Lyman split the difference! Now I've got a choice- - - -rework the tool by making a new piston, threaded for one of the standardized threads, or order threading tools for the unusual pitch. I've got a 3/8-20 tap and die on order, ones I can toss into the "specialty thread" drawer of the tool box along with a few others- - - -metric barrel threading taps and dies, a super-fine 5/16" thread tap for Hornady Lock-N-Load case threading, and a couple of others. Machine work is so much fun!
Jerry

Replies

  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    So they split the difference between coarse and fine.........I wonder to make it best of both worlds or so it can't be easily replaced.

    Do they sell replacements?
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I'm pretty sure it's to make replacement parts proprietary. Just about any fine thread screw will push the piston down and force the lube through the holes in the die. There's no reason I can see to come up with a specialty thread. Of course, I could just rethread the piston for 7/16-20, which is a readily available standardized size of all thread. I keep a couple of 36" lengths of that stuff around as part of a tooling package I sell for drilling and tapping old Chevrolet crankshafts. That might be a better idea, as it will make the LuberSizer stronger and more durable.
    Jerry
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Some folks sure make things interesting when trying to repair their 'stuff'! :up:
    It would have made more sense, to me, for them to have used a 16 pitch coarse thread for that application. Coarse threads are less subject to wear in a loaded application like that than fine threads, and the 4 thread per inch difference would have made no real difference in operation.

    Reminds me a bit of that weird screw size on old marlins that holds the tube magazine in place at the front barrel band. Can't remember the exact size, but I 'think' it's a #5 fine thread screw. WTH! A #6 fine thread screw would have made more sense, and is a LOT easier to find. And the NEW Remlins have an entirely different screw in that application, making the old ones obsolete and therefore made of unobtanium.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
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  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Welllll- - - - -then there's the buttress thread on a Mauser cocking piece- - - - -with a 45 degree angle on one side, and a 5 degree on the other! Try grinding a threading bit for that one sometime! (I've actually done that, for a bolt bending jig heat sink!)
    Jerry
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,600 Senior Member
    Whitworth?

    How long has this sizer been on the market?

    Old sewing machines often use oddball threads for the simple reason their designs predate most standards, and since the factory was making the threads anyway, they used whatever they felt like. Is the Lyman product "that" old?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Whitworth?

    How long has this sizer been on the market?

    Not too sure about the Whitworth (British Standard Fine thread)- - - -but the Lyman lubersizer has been around at least 50 years or more. One of the examples of BSF threads (and oddball size bolt heads) being used was on the Rolls-Merlin aircraft engines on the P-51 Mustang. A few of the oldtimers I knew around USAF maintenance shops said they were issued Whitworth wrench sets to work on the Mustang engines.

    Hmmmm- - - - - -just looked it up- - - -3/8" BSF has a 20 TPI pitch, and it also has a 55 degree- - -not 60- - - thread angle! Learned something new today!
    Jerry
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,336 Senior Member
    I had a 68 Triumph Bonneville that had the Whitworth system. Thank goodness I had zero ability with tools and took it for repair to someone who did.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,993 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Reminds me a bit of that weird screw size on old marlins that holds the tube magazine in place at the front barrel band. Can't remember the exact size, but I 'think' it's a #5 fine thread screw. WTH! A #6 fine thread screw would have made more sense, and is a LOT easier to find. And the NEW Remlins have an entirely different screw in that application, making the old ones obsolete and therefore made of unobtanium.

    Just for grins I looked up the screw, Marlin P.N. 36-53 Mag tube stud screw,
    Head Dia. -- .208, head thickness -- .085, oal -- .634, threaded length -- .380, thread -- .137x42tpi

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    jaywapti wrote: »
    Just for grins I looked up the screw, Marlin P.N. 36-53 Mag tube stud screw,
    Head Dia. -- .208, head thickness -- .085, oal -- .634, threaded length -- .380, thread -- .137x42tpi

    JAY

    Wrong part. My fault; I should have been more specific. It's the front band screw. It holds the front barrel band in place and is part #301191. And I found my stash of barrel band screws. They are #5-40tpi. I had to shorten one of them I got from a machine screw source to 0.720 oal and reduce the head size diameter and the head thickness to fit. I couldn't find a replacement anywhere. And I've forgotten where I found out the thread pitch and diameter.

    The devil of it was that they only sold them in quantities of 100. Which wasn't bad as they were less than $5 per hundred with shipping more than the cost of the 100 screws.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Is the pressure screw what you need? Here is a chart they charge $6.30 for one if you haven't made one yet. Item 9 on the parts diagram? Model 4500.

    Have to go to the right drop down menu under Parts/options and scroll down to your part.

    https://www.lymanproducts.com/4500-lubricator-sizer-replacement-parts.html
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I used to hate it when I looked in 24&P parts manuals and the part I needed was N/A and had to order the next higher assembly in the Army.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    I pulled a good one. I needed a new HP Envy 4500 printer ink cartridge. Neat printer/copier/scanner/wireless and all that. Will scan/print and send it (pdf) to my laptop if I want.

    Anyhow I go to Amazon and search for HP 4500 and it shows #901 will work..........WRONG they are for Ink Jet 4500 models not Envy 4500, which take a #61.

    Luckily I didn't open the 2-pak and am doing a return. I have the return code from them and the UPS store will print the label. So I'll get $21.82 back from the $29.15 the 2-pak cost, so not a total loss.

    I should have opened the cover and just got the number off the one in it............wasn't thunking smart and it's my fault.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,812 Senior Member
    I'm mostly in awe of those who know how to buy the exact screw for something when they don't have one in hand to go by. It isn't rocket surgery, I know, but some of us shy away from it in much the same way as some folks shy away from computer issues.

    I recently had to order a screw for the rear end of a Model 600 Mohawk metal trigger guard and floor plate. The factory screws were too short, after installing a Timney trigger and upgrading to metal on the bottom side. I finally figured out that I needed an 8-36x 2-1/4, which I could not find, and was not completely sure about, anyway, so I ordered a Model 700 trigger guard screw kit for ~$9, and spent 30 minutes cutting it to fit and filing the tiny threads till it would start in the hole.

    Not very cost effective, but typical of what some of us non-machinist types often resort to, rather than ask for help. :tooth:
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Is the pressure screw what you need?

    Yep, that's one of the things I need. I'm actually doing some modifying to prevent or reduce the chronic leakage this one has- - - -making a pressure piston with three O rings instead of two, and changing the way the pressure screw seals at the bottom. I'm tired of having to dismount the press from the bench occasionally to clean up the mess that leaks out of the bottom! I got the new pressure screw about 90% complete yesterday- - - -just waiting for the tap and die to arrive from my supplier to do the finish sizing of the thread and tap the internal thread on the new piston. I'll have a C-note worth of labor involved in making a $6.00 part, but it will be done "My Way" like old Blue Eyes used to say!
    Jerry
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Yep, that's one of the things I need. I'm actually doing some modifying to prevent or reduce the chronic leakage this one has- - - -making a pressure piston with three O rings instead of two, and changing the way the pressure screw seals at the bottom. I'm tired of having to dismount the press from the bench occasionally to clean up the mess that leaks out of the bottom!
    Jerry


    Mine leaked when it was brand new if I left the heater plugged in too long. I got to when I notice the least bit of leakage, I unplug the heater and when it's hard to turn the screw, I plug it back in. Would it be feasible to take the factory piston and add another O-ring groove to it?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,600 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    I pulled a good one. I needed a new HP Envy 4500 printer ink cartridge. Neat printer/copier/scanner/wireless and all that. Will scan/print and send it (pdf) to my laptop if I want.

    Anyhow I go to Amazon and search for HP 4500 and it shows #901 will work..........WRONG they are for Ink Jet 4500 models not Envy 4500, which take a #61.

    Luckily I didn't open the 2-pak and am doing a return. I have the return code from them and the UPS store will print the label. So I'll get $21.82 back from the $29.15 the 2-pak cost, so not a total loss.

    I should have opened the cover and just got the number off the one in it............wasn't thunking smart and it's my fault.

    HP introduces a new model of ink/toner for just about every new printer they come out with. Drives me nuckin' futz!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Mine leaked when it was brand new if I left the heater plugged in too long. I got to when I notice the least bit of leakage, I unplug the heater and when it's hard to turn the screw, I plug it back in. Would it be feasible to take the factory piston and add another O-ring groove to it?

    The heater for mine is adjustable for temperature output. Got it from Midway a LONG time ago. One of those cheap Harbor Fright motor speed controllers could be used as a temperature controller for your lubrisizer heater.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
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