What to do? What to do?

knitepoetknitepoet Senior MemberPosts: 18,845 Senior Member
As much media coverage as it's received, I'm sure some/most of you are aware of the republican senate race run-off here in Alabama yesterday.

Appointed senator Luther Strange against Roy "the 10 commandments judge" Moore.

Moore won by approximately 10% (55% v 45%).

If you aren't familiar with his back story, he (Moore) has been removed from the office of chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court TWICE

First time for refusing to remove a 10 commandment monument that HE had placed on the grounds of the courthouse property after the federal courts said it had to go.

The second for telling the probate judges (who issue marriage licenses in the state) to NOT issue licenses to same sex couples, AFTER the federal courts said it was legal.

If one of us "peons" had bucked the federal courts like that, we'd probably STILL be locked up for being in contempt of court.

Needless to say, I didn't support Moore in either the primaries OR the run-off :nono:

However, since he won run-off, I am left in a quandary.

Voting for Moore is NOT happening, so I am left with the choices of either voting for the democratic candidate, former US attorney Doug Jones, or skipping the special election all together.
Can't say I'm really wild about either option
Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


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Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,651 Senior Member
    I think you understand that a vote for a Democrat is a vote for the destruction of the Constitution and all traditional American values, even if the candidate seems like a good guy. Anyone with enough political savvy to get the Democrat nomination knows that a new Senator is going to receive his marching orders from Chuck Schumer and told in no uncertain terms that if he gets off the reservation, his career is dead in the water, forever.

    Mitch McConnell will likely deliver a similar message, but in a milquetoast fashion that will not frighten a guy like the judge. So, he will likely never sit on a committee, or be trusted with any party directives. But, like my own junior Senator (Ted Cruz), he has 1% of the Senate vote, and that's the best one can do who will not march in lockstep with the party line.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    Just thought of something, I do have a third option, writing in Strange.

    Bisley, there's no way on earth I can bring myself to vote for Moore, I don't care WHAT letter is behind his name on the ballot. :nono: I could have come closer to voting for clinton

    And for the record, it's been, I believe I heard last night, nearly 40 years since this state has had a democratic senator.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,651 Senior Member
    I can understand not voting for somebody who places his religion ahead of his duty to represent all of the people. Still, with the options available to you, it might be more logical to consider how he will vote on important issues.

    I had a visceral dislike for Trump, but voted for him based on a gamble that he was telling the truth about choosing a Supreme Court judge from the list he made public. I got that, plus several other bonuses in the form of promises kept. Moore might settle down and serve a useful function, and probably can't do a lot of harm.

    Sometimes you have to be logical, then go take a shower. :tissue:
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »

    Sometimes you have to be logical, then go take a shower. :tissue:
    Unfortunately, that IS the case sometimes.

    I just spoke with my dad, and while he voted against moore in the run-off, he's going to support him in the election.

    I also feel you about Trump, he wasn't my first, or even second choice, but I held my nose and voted for him.

    I cannot, however, bring myself to ever entertain the idea of voting for moore though :nono:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    As much media coverage as it's received, I'm sure some/most of you are aware of the republican senate race run-off here in Alabama yesterday.

    Appointed senator Luther Strange against Roy "the 10 commandments judge" Moore.

    Moore won by approximately 10% (55% v 45%).

    If you aren't familiar with his back story, he (Moore) has been removed from the office of chief justice of the Alabama TWICE

    First time for refusing to remove a 10 commandment monument that HE had placed on the grounds of the courthouse property after the federal courts said it had to go.

    The second for telling the probate judges (who issue marriage licenses in the state) to NOT issue licenses to same sex couples, AFTER the federal courts said it was legal.

    If one of us "peons" had bucked the federal courts like that, we'd probably STILL be locked up for being in contempt of court.

    Needless to say, I didn't support Moore in either the primaries OR the run-off :nono:

    However, since he won run-off, I am left in a quandary.

    Voting for Moore is NOT happening, so I am left with the choices of either voting for the democratic candidate, former US attorney Doug Jones, or skipping the special election all together.
    Can't say I'm really wild about either option

    The only question I would have for Moore is, "What's your stance on the 2A?

    I've already seen and heard what it is so he would have my support. I was behind him solidly when he was fighting that battle over the 10 commandments, even though being from Texas I had no vote.

    A statue, whether it have the Ten Commandments, a Koran verse, or a Star of David, it's just a chunk of rock. If somebody is thin skinned enough to get Butt Hurt over an ol' piece of Rock, They really need to get over it.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,687 Senior Member
    Paul, I don't really know much about either candidate but it seemed that Strange spent quite a bit more money and effort campaigning than Moore did but yet Moore still won. How come? Does Strange have some skeletons or bad history?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,417 Senior Member
    The other option is not voting at all- - - -one which I've exercised on occasion, but rarely. That's a token dummycrap vote, but in the end, you have to look into the mirror at the guy you shave every day and face his accusing stare. Nobody here who has more than two brain cells to rub together is going to fault you for whatever you decide, and the ones who might aren't worth the powder and lead to make their opinions a moot point.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,417 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Does Strange have some skeletons or bad history?

    Strange was touted by Mitch McConnell and the "senate leadership committee" who spent millions of dollars on attack ads. Alabama voters saw Strange as a shill for the swamp rats who have run Washington for decades, and rejected his backers, not necessarily Strange himself. I think they chose wisely by picking up a turd by the clean end, if that's possible. There are two kinds of Alabama politicians- - - -bad and terrible!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Paul, I don't really know much about either candidate but it seemed that Strange spent quite a bit more money and effort campaigning than Moore did but yet Moore still won. How come? Does Strange have some skeletons or bad history?
    Not really.
    A little potential "sketchiness" in regards to an investigation into the Gov that appointed him.
    moore's base seems to be more Christian conservatives who buy into the idea that he defied the courts based on actual moral grounds instead of setting up his political "long game" (which is my opinion of his actions)

    When he was elected chief justice the second time :roll: The wife and I had a bet as to how long it would take for him to get removed from office again, I won.

    Teach wrote: »
    The other option is not voting at all- - - -one which I've exercised on occasion, but rarely.
    Jerry, I mentioned that possibility in my OP. However, since I posted it, a third option has come to mind. Writing in Strange

    It could still be considered as a token democrat vote, but will allow me to vote my conscious :up:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Paul, I don't really know much about either candidate but it seemed that Strange spent quite a bit more money and effort campaigning than Moore did but yet Moore still won. How come? Does Strange have some skeletons or bad history?

    I'm thinking they all, including Trump made Strange look like a big ol' dummy. I don't believe for a milisecond that he is, but I think he's perceived to be.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 379 Member
    So our side has one activist judge (compared to their 100's), who was swiftly booted (by the standards of our legal system) from the bench and is no longer a judge (again compared to their judges who are NEVER punished for their activism), but is a candidate for 1% of the most deliberative body (read: get's the least done) in our government and in good conscience you cannot vote for him? I sincerely am NOT belittling your quandary, but hopefully adding a little perspective. Frankly I don't know how you could not be utterly enthusiastic to pull the lever for him.

    Our side is playing a sporting game by a set of rules, while the other side has an army of brownshirts in the streets.
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,589 Senior Member
    This is why the GOP needs to purge itself of Christianists...

    I don't have an answer, I'd be in the quandary the OP is in - but for those who support him, what if it was the exact same line, only he was an Islamist? The Gov't has ZERO business promulgating ANY religion - what if Moore were pushing a stone Koran? That's exactly how I see him - and he certainly is NOT "playing by the rules", he arrogantly thinks they don't apply to him.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    I have no problem with your opinion jb, I just do not share it and WILL NOT vote for him
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,845 Senior Member
    Jack, I believe I've been consistent in the fact that I will NOT be voting for moore throughout this thread, I've only plainly stated it 4 times so far

    OP
    knitepoet wrote: »

    Voting for Moore is NOT happening,
    post#3
    knitepoet wrote: »

    Bisley, there's no way on earth I can bring myself to vote for Moore, I don't care WHAT letter is behind his name on the ballot. :nono:
    post #5
    knitepoet wrote: »

    I cannot, however, bring myself to ever entertain the idea of voting for moore though :nono:
    post #14
    knitepoet wrote: »
    I just do not share it and WILL NOT vote for him
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,687 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    This is why the GOP needs to purge itself of Christianists...

    I don't have an answer, I'd be in the quandary the OP is in - but for those who support him, what if it was the exact same line, only he was an Islamist? The Gov't has ZERO business promulgating ANY religion - what if Moore were pushing a stone Koran? That's exactly how I see him - and he certainly is NOT "playing by the rules", he arrogantly thinks they don't apply to him.

    I would think that if the public didn't want Christians in political positions, they wouldn't elect them. How many wiccans are there in politics? More wasn't pushing a Koran, he apparently has belief's and ideas that the majority of voters in Alabama agree with, weather you do or not.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,589 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    I would think that if the public didn't want Christians in political positions, they wouldn't elect them. How many wiccans are there in politics? More wasn't pushing a Koran, he apparently has belief's and ideas that the majority of voters in Alabama agree with, weather you do or not.

    You're completely missing my point. From my standpoint, pushing the 10 commandments is the exact same thing as pushing the Koran - which would in turn be the same as pushing Wicca, or my belief system, or anybody else's. And I didn't call him a Christian, I called him a Christianist. I couldn't tell you how many Wiccans are in politics - probably very few. I probably wouldn't vote for one as most of them are rabid Liberals, although they probably wouldn't push their religion on people. Moore is about the best example of what continues to be a huge problem for the GOP.

    Choose your slavery America, choose your slavery.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,607 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    You're completely missing my point. From my standpoint, pushing the 10 commandments is the exact same thing as pushing the Koran - which would in turn be the same as pushing Wicca, or my belief system, or anybody else's. And I didn't call him a Christian, I called him a Christianist. I couldn't tell you how many Wiccans are in politics - probably very few. I probably wouldn't vote for one as most of them are rabid Liberals, although they probably wouldn't push their religion on people. Moore is about the best example of what continues to be a huge problem for the GOP.

    Choose your slavery America, choose your slavery.
    I did not miss your point.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    That is very similar to my feelings in most Elections now ... I can’t remember the last time I actually voted FOR a candidate instead of AGAINST the one I knew would go ways I didn’t agree with. Truthfully I did not vote for Trump ... I voted against Hildabeast. I didn’t care for Richard Burr but no damn way I wanted Deb Ross in office and the same for Tom Tillis. Today it is more hold your nose and vote for the lesser of the two evils.

    Paul, your 1 vote likely will not make a difference but when added to others in your state who feel as you to those grains of sand can add up to a desert ... and let a camel get his nose under the oasis’s tent. Vote with your thoughts of the future not solely with emotion ...
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    This is why the GOP needs to purge itself of Christianists...

    I don't have an answer, I'd be in the quandary the OP is in - but for those who support him, what if it was the exact same line, only he was an Islamist? The Gov't has ZERO business promulgating ANY religion - what if Moore were pushing a stone Koran? That's exactly how I see him - and he certainly is NOT "playing by the rules", he arrogantly thinks they don't apply to him.

    Bro Zorba, if they did you'd never see another one win an election. Like it or not they are a big part of the conservative base. There's all kinds of conservatives, from atheists to preachers. When it comes to doing battle with the left we all need to stand together. My desire to see things such as the Ten Commandments stay on buildings is not that I think we all should get down and praise them, but you have to admit they are part of what brung us. If George Washington would have been a belly dancer on the side and they had a statue of him in a skirt, I'd be the first one standing guard on that statue should the Baptist gang up and attempt to destroy it. There's room for all of us, as long as we remember that part that we all count. Everybody should have their say.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,589 Senior Member
    sgtrock21 wrote: »
    I did not miss your point.

    My comment was directed towards Fisheadgib - who is a "stand up guy" even if we don't necessarily agree on everything.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,589 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Bro Zorba, if they did you'd never see another one win an election. Like it or not they are a big part of the conservative base. There's all kinds of conservatives, from atheists to preachers. When it comes to doing battle with the left we all need to stand together. My desire to see things such as the Ten Commandments stay on buildings is not that I think we all should get down and praise them, but you have to admit they are part of what brung us. If George Washington would have been a belly dancer on the side and they had a statue of him in a skirt, I'd be the first one standing guard on that statue should the Baptist gang up and attempt to destroy it. There's room for all of us, as long as we remember that part that we all count. Everybody should have their say.

    Well, I really don't think the 10 commandments are "what brung us (only about four of them have any universality at all)" - but rehashing past discussions is a waste of time. Everybody here knows how I feel on the subject, so I won't bore everybody - including myself - with a repeat! :tooth: If I were in Paul's position, I don't know what I'd do either. Kinda like choosing between Lucifer and Satan. I'd have to take a close look at the Dem candidate, and try to figure out which was the least of the two evils - and hope that whichever one I voted for wouldn't be able to push his (disliked by me) agenda. And that's all I, or anybody else, can do.

    Sigh...

    ETA: Even if one agrees with Moore's stance - he's been removed from office twice for not following the rules, such as they are. He thinks they don't apply to him. I dislike such arrogance. Americans United is going to have kittens over this if he wins...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 379 Member
    zorba wrote: »
    You're completely missing my point. From my standpoint, pushing the 10 commandments is the exact same thing as pushing the Koran - which would in turn be the same as pushing Wicca, or my belief system, or anybody else's. And I didn't call him a Christian, I called him a Christianist. I couldn't tell you how many Wiccans are in politics - probably very few. I probably wouldn't vote for one as most of them are rabid Liberals, although they probably wouldn't push their religion on people. Moore is about the best example of what continues to be a huge problem for the GOP.

    Choose your slavery America, choose your slavery.

    Only one of those religions would kill you for your beliefs, not to mention your attire. It is only those who worship at the alter of collectivism who would see us in chains.
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,589 Senior Member
    Only one of those religions would kill you for your beliefs, not to mention your attire..

    History says otherwise - BUT - in today's context, you are mostly right. But I have seen plenty of non JCI adherents have their share of problems with/because of the JCI - mostly "C" - hegemony. But whatever - the "C's" in this forum are a credit to their religion, unfortunately, there are those elsewhere who are not. They scare me, and 2,000 years of bloodstained history caused by Chrisitianists (as opposed to Christians) give me some cause. The phrase "Judaeo Christian" is thrown about quite a bit, and then we wonder why Jews don't vote Republican. Because they've heard all the Christianist rhetoric before. Once burned, twice shy and all that...

    Ronald Reagan was a great man, and a great president - but he wasn't perfect. He bears a lot of unfortunate blame for where we are today. But we can't change that, we just have to go forward. I don't know the square root of eff all about Moore's opponent, so I don't know who I'd vote for. If it were a Pelosi, I'd hold my nose and vote for Moore - or not vote at all, write in Alfred E. Neuman, or whatever. Satan or Lucifer? *shrug* I don't have an answer and all courses may run ill.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Islam forbids all statues and monuments, let that sink in.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,589 Senior Member
    john9001 wrote: »
    Islam forbids all statues and monuments, let that sink in.

    Yes, and Christianists smashed thousands of statues and monuments during the last 2,000 years. This takes us nowhere. I have a house full of statues that are against the Christian religion, and Christianists would be glad to do away with them. So what?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Well, I really don't think the 10 commandments are "what brung us (only about four of them have any universality at all)" - but rehashing past discussions is a waste of time. Everybody here knows how I feel on the subject, so I won't bore everybody - including myself - with a repeat! :tooth: If I were in Paul's position, I don't know what I'd do either. Kinda like choosing between Lucifer and Satan. I'd have to take a close look at the Dem candidate, and try to figure out which was the least of the two evils - and hope that whichever one I voted for wouldn't be able to push his (disliked by me) agenda. And that's all I, or anybody else, can do.

    Sigh...ijo

    ETA: Even if one agrees with Moore's stance - he's been removed from office twice for not following the rules, such as they are. He thinks they don't apply to him. I dislike such arrogance. Americans United is going to have kittens over this if he wins...

    After reading this thread, I think they both stink. But not as bad as any dummycrap. If it's just the man, I could maybe go for a moderate Dem if I liked him/her. But the problem is that their politicians bring with them their anti gun-pro criminal platform. How can anybody seriously consider that the concept of Sanctuary Cities is legal? That's the main reason I won't vote for a Dummycrap no matter how screwed up a Republican is. So if push comes to shove Nothing will induce me to vote for a Dummycrap, and a non vote is a vote for the other side.

    However, having said all that, I don't believe in legislating Morality either. For instance, there's some girly bars in Victoria. In my younger days I have sinned and gone to one or two. It's not my bag anymore, but if the Baptists start raising hell that they should be shut down, I'm the first to get vocal. I don't drink anymore because I have no control over alcohol. But when the Baptist get on the war path to stop everybody from drinking alcohol, again, I'm one of the first and loudest to cut them off. Now I am not into hard drugs and don't believe in using them, but I won't even join in with the war on drugs crowd. The only time I will object to that is if some scumbag is selling to a kid.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    Ok, bring up the crusades.
  • Jack BurtonJack Burton Member Posts: 379 Member
    Zorba, have you ever watched/listened to Stefan Molyneux?
    Came for the fishing, stayed for the guns.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,106 Senior Member
    I can see your quandary as to how to vote. I don't know much about Strange, but know the Moore controversy pretty well, or at least as well as someone from a neighboring Southern state can. Hard to make a choice now that Moore has won the primary. Vote for Moore or the Democrat opponent? I'll make a prediction that Moore will win, and I'll make a short explanation of why I think that he'll win.

    Moore is, and has been, a staunch supporter of state's rights over federal interference at the state level. As such, he's brought a lot of heat on the state for his firm stand on those state's rights issues. Personally, I stand up and applaud him for sticking his finger in the Fed's eye, and fighting off Federal encroachment on what are matters for the states to decide. That in a nutshell is why Moore is so popular. Given the political climate, tearing down of Confederate statues and monuments, and the constant overreach of the Feds in state matters(religion and marriage), and the growing hatred in the South for all things and Progressive ideas from North of the Mason/Dixon Line, Moore is seen as a man that will fight like hell for the State of Alabama and Alabama concerns. Strange doesn't have that history going for him, at least in the same strident manner as Moore has exhibited.

    My view is from a strictly Bible Belt Southern point of view, and from way too much reading of history.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,589 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    After reading this thread, I think they both stink. But not as bad as any dummycrap. If it's just the man, I could maybe go for a moderate Dem if I liked him/her. But the problem is that their politicians bring with them their anti gun-pro criminal platform. How can anybody seriously consider that the concept of Sanctuary Cities is legal? That's the main reason I won't vote for a Dummycrap no matter how screwed up a Republican is. So if push comes to shove Nothing will induce me to vote for a Dummycrap, and a non vote is a vote for the other side.

    However, having said all that, I don't believe in legislating Morality either. For instance, there's some girly bars in Victoria. In my younger days I have sinned and gone to one or two. It's not my bag anymore, but if the Baptists start raising hell that they should be shut down, I'm the first to get vocal. I don't drink anymore because I have no control over alcohol. But when the Baptist get on the war path to stop everybody from drinking alcohol, again, I'm one of the first and loudest to cut them off. Now I am not into hard drugs and don't believe in using them, but I won't even join in with the war on drugs crowd. The only time I will object to that is if some scumbag is selling to a kid.

    You and I, Sir, are in 100% agreement here.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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