Full Auto vs Semi-auto

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Replies

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,658 Senior Member
    I know that with the last M80s I purchased, they had a small capsule of flashpowder, surrounded by a bunch of sawdust. (About the size of a Benadryl capsule)
    I can also tell you that with the sawdust removed, you can fit ~ 6 of those capsules into one "m80" body and still have room to hotglue it closed.
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,577 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    We’ve all seen what a slight overload of Unique can do to a steel firearm frame. Can you imagine what you could do with a few cans? Again a gun is a somewhat efficient way to cause mass damage, but it’s far from the best if you have a little imagination and some basic skills.
    We do. It happened in Boston. 1.5 kills per dead/soon to be dead terrorist.

    My primary point is that there is nothing we can do to consistently stop a determined suicide attacker. There will always be some way that they can kill people. But some ways are more deadly than others. Some are way easier than others. As always we have to balance protecting the rights of Americans with limiting the potential death toll from the inevitable deranged psychos. The death toll is part of the "cost of freedom".
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,730 Senior Member
    This happened yesterday. Bet you didn't hear about it on the MSM. Lots of folks don't have that 'freedom' Alpha spoke of over there in the Mideast and Africa, and they still die by the hundreds.

    http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-somalia-shabab-bombs-20171016-story.html
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,551 Senior Member
    We do. It happened in Boston. 1.5 kills per dead/soon to be dead terrorist.

    My primary point is that there is nothing we can do to consistently stop a determined suicide attacker. There will always be some way that they can kill people. But some ways are more deadly than others. Some are way easier than others. As always we have to balance protecting the rights of Americans with limiting the potential death toll from the inevitable deranged psychos. The death toll is part of the "cost of freedom".

    This is about the only logical argument I have heard liberals try to make about terrorism. It fails because it does not recognize that global terrorism will be a hundred times worse if western nations do not continue to defeat most of it before it happens here. But it does at least sound logical, when taken out of context from everything else that is going on in the rest of the world.

    My question is why do liberals not accept this same basic logic about why we should not make stricter gun laws? If they don't want the government to do things to make us safer from worldwide Islamic terrorism, why do they want the government to make gun laws that they pretend will make us safer from domestic terrorism? They don't want to 'restrict liberty,' when it comes to Syrian refugees or illegal immigrants, but they don't mind it at all when it only restricts the liberty of legitimate citizens, who have been living under the same laws for 200 plus years without noticeably impacting the safety of others.
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,565 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Full auto is generally pretty useless in stuff that isn't some combination of heavy, made for the purpose, running at a low cyclic rate, or shooting little pistols cartridges. No basic infantry rifle system fits that description. They're all pretty squirrely when you swing the switch all the way to the stop.

    Vickers makes some good points: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cosc-RO_oMg

    Also reference the British Mad Minute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_minute the record for which was 36 hits on a 48" target at 300 yards WITH A WWI-ERA BOLT ACTION FED WITH STRIPPER CLIPS.

    Given he was basically shooting into a can of sardines, Paddock probably could have done just as much damage with aimed fire from a single shot Martini from the 1870's, to say nothing of the options of trucks, explosives, and airplanes.
    The shooter knew he was under a time constraint. Aimed may have resulted in more deaths but less overall carnage. I have absolutely no idea what the shooter's goal was. I have 3 Martinis. Providence tool company 45/70 "sporter". .22LR "Parker rifled" trainer, and .303 carbine. All three are very accurate.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,577 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    This is about the only logical argument I have heard liberals try to make about terrorism. It fails because it does not recognize that global terrorism will be a hundred times worse if western nations do not continue to defeat most of it before it happens here. But it does at least sound logical, when taken out of context from everything else that is going on in the rest of the world.

    My question is why do liberals not accept this same basic logic about why we should not make stricter gun laws? If they don't want the government to do things to make us safer from worldwide Islamic terrorism, why do they want the government to make gun laws that they pretend will make us safer from domestic terrorism? They don't want to 'restrict liberty,' when it comes to Syrian refugees or illegal immigrants, but they don't mind it at all when it only restricts the liberty of legitimate citizens, who have been living under the same laws for 200 plus years without noticeably impacting the safety of others.
    On the flip side why are conservatives so willing to sacrifice every other freedom and human right OTHER than gun rights in failed attempts to keep us slightly safer. Massive government surveillance - sure why not, the 4th amendment is just a suggestion. Rapey searches to fly - flying is a privilege, bend over. Racial profiling - I'm not being profiled so doesn't affect me. Highly restrictive immigration policies - those people are brown and not American who cares. Massive increase in government spending and bloated bureaucracy with zero accountability - perfectly fine if it's allegedly to help keep is safe as long as it doesn't help poor people. Torture - sure no problem alleged terrorists have no rights. Extra judicial killings - again terrorists have no rights. Government report about right wing terrorism - AAAAAAAGH GOVERNMENT OVER REACH, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY APPLY ANY OF THE ABOVE TO PEOPLE WHO LOOK OR THINK LIKE ME, TERRORISM IS ONLY BROWN PEOPLE AAAAAGH, I ONLY LIKE TO GIVE GOVERNMENT THE POWER TO INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,525 Senior Member
    On the flip side why are conservatives so willing to sacrifice every other freedom and human right OTHER than gun rights in failed attempts to keep us slightly safer. Massive government surveillance - sure why not, the 4th amendment is just a suggestion. Rapey searches to fly - flying is a privilege, bend over. Racial profiling - I'm not being profiled so doesn't affect me. Highly restrictive immigration policies - those people are brown and not American who cares. Massive increase in government spending and bloated bureaucracy with zero accountability - perfectly fine if it's allegedly to help keep is safe as long as it doesn't help poor people. Torture - sure no problem alleged terrorists have no rights. Extra judicial killings - again terrorists have no rights. Government report about right wing terrorism - AAAAAAAGH GOVERNMENT OVER REACH, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY APPLY ANY OF THE ABOVE TO PEOPLE WHO LOOK OR THINK LIKE ME, TERRORISM IS ONLY BROWN PEOPLE AAAAAGH, I ONLY LIKE TO GIVE GOVERNMENT THE POWER TO INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!

    Not sure what your so upset about. Every time I fly I go through the same thing as everyone else, sometimes more because of last name is the same as a known criminal.
    When I purchase a firearm, again even with my concealed carry permit and proper ID every single purchase comes back with a conditional approval because of my last name and ssn being close to again a well known criminal. I need a UPIN issued by the FBI to purchase a firearm without issue
    I used to hold a TS/SCI clearance while in the Military and again as a Civilian, now a TS and still get the same issues. Being a white guy in South Florida, in many neighborhoods I am the guy that gets the weird look from local as well as the Police. The Government infringes on everybody, only certain people make the headlines about it.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,730 Senior Member
    On the flip side why are conservatives so willing to sacrifice every other freedom and human right OTHER than gun rights in failed attempts to keep us slightly safer. Massive government surveillance - sure why not, the 4th amendment is just a suggestion. Rapey searches to fly - flying is a privilege, bend over.

    BOTH parties are guilty of that surveillance mess. The Patriot Act went way too far under 'Shrub' Bush, and Obama made it worse.


    Racial profiling - I'm not being profiled so doesn't affect me.

    Profiling, racial or otherwise works. You look for who is committing the crime. Israelis have been doing it for decades, and it works.


    Highly restrictive immigration policies - those people are brown and not American who cares.

    First off, THERE IS NO RIGHT TO EMIGRATE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY AS AN IMMIGRANT. PERIOD! If you don't have the ability to support yourself in the country you emigrate to, then the country has the right to bar entry. Get over this one world touchy-feely crap. We got enough home grown anchors dragging us down without importing more welfare cases.


    Massive increase in government spending and bloated bureaucracy with zero accountability - perfectly fine if it's allegedly to help keep is safe as long as it doesn't help poor people.

    Again, that is a bipartisan thing. Obama doubled the national debt and then some with nothing to show for it. And both parties were participants, except for that AHCA thing. Repubs knew it was a boondoggle but didn't have the votes to kill it then, or the guts to kill it now.

    Torture - sure no problem alleged terrorists have no rights. Extra judicial killings - again terrorists have no rights.

    Waterboarding at Gitmo is a pretty mild torture as torture goes. At best, terrorists are illegal combatants, and in previous wars they were executed pretty quickly. As to whacking terrorists with missiles from drones, that's a good thing. And if their family members get whacked, too, because they were there, then that's what is called collateral damage due to the terrorists cowards using family/civilians as human shields. As to Americans taken out in the sandbox fighting with and lending material support to the enemy, they get what they deserve. Observe what went on in WWII. Some Japanese, Italians, and Germans that were citizens of the U.S. went back to their homelands to fight for their home countries. Ya think we asked the enemy before the battles if they had any U.S. citizens among them? Nope. Not necessary. They wore the uniform of the enemy and were treated as such.

    Government report about right wing terrorism - AAAAAAAGH GOVERNMENT OVER REACH, YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY APPLY ANY OF THE ABOVE TO PEOPLE WHO LOOK OR THINK LIKE ME, TERRORISM IS ONLY BROWN PEOPLE AAAAAGH, I ONLY LIKE TO GIVE GOVERNMENT THE POWER TO INFRINGE ON THE RIGHTS OF OTHER PEOPLE!!!!

    And the reason that YOU are groped at the airport and other places of public transportation is that YOU and people like you are against profiling, so everyone gets put in the pot of random gropees. You can't be getting all PMS about getting groped when you are against profiling. It's an either/or thing. Sitting on the fence just gets you a buttload of splinters. :tooth:
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • john9001john9001 Senior Member Posts: 668 Senior Member
    I don't fly anymore because it's too dangerous, I know it's dangerous because of all the security, they wouldn't have all that security if it was safe.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,577 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    And the reason that YOU are groped at the airport and other places of public transportation is that YOU and people like you are against profiling, so everyone gets put in the pot of random gropees. You can't be getting all PMS about getting groped when you are against profiling. It's an either/or thing. Sitting on the fence just gets you a buttload of splinters. :tooth:
    Yep, everything is fine as long as it is OTHER people's rights being violated.

    "First they came for the.....
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,525 Senior Member
    Yep, everything is fine as long as it is OTHER people's rights being violated.

    "First they came for the.....

    For some reason you want to call foul because of security that attempts to help keep you alive, so, if no profiling, no searches, you would rather another plane hijacked? Not use a tool to catch terrorists before they strike? Guess we just ignore all dangers, give everyone 100% freedom to do whatever they please and since everyone is free and not mad there will never be another 9-11 or building blown up in OKC. The unicorns will protect us
    You cant have it both ways in the world today
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 6,461 Senior Member
    Yep, everything is fine as long as it is OTHER people's rights being violated.

    "First they came for the.....

    You do not have a right to fly.
    You do not have a right not to be profiled.
    No one of this or any other country has the right to pass the boarder of any country without first being cleared by the govt of that country. That power is not only in our constitution, the Supremes ruled that it lies solely in the executive branch, until now.
    Govt spending on the military is a basic duty of the govt. Transferring wealth to lazy people (see other post soon) is not.
    As to torture, as a enemy combatant w/o a uniform, the US and any other country is perfectly within its right to shoot them on sight as well as treat them how they need to. Rules of war. They have a right to stand up and shoot, then they get to deal with the consequences. (FYI same argument about people re coloring the 1st amendment to suit their childish behavior)


    None of your complaints listed, unless one assumes the direct transfer of a citizens wealth to another, violates any of the rights listed in the constitution or basic human rights.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,730 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    For some reason you want to call foul because of security that attempts to help keep you alive, so, if no profiling, no searches, you would rather another plane hijacked? Not use a tool to catch terrorists before they strike? Guess we just ignore all dangers, give everyone 100% freedom to do whatever they please and since everyone is free and not mad there will never be another 9-11 or building blown up in OKC. The unicorns will protect us
    You cant have it both ways in the world today

    Just pass national reciprocity, allow firearms on airplanes and other modes of public transit, and the terrorists will be outnumbered and outgunned...............and dead if they try that crap.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 8,577 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    No we don't, what happened in Boston was two nitwits with some fireworks grade explosives. I REALLY do not want to get into specifics because I'm not trying to educate potential nutjobs but any semi intelligent person armed with some pretty common stuff can create much more carnage in less time than what can be accomplished with semi or full auto fire from a rifle. The ONLY thing that gives us any chance of personally Surviving an attack is the ability and means of self defense, but no one can survive a determined, surprise, unprovoked attack...

    Luckily most people willing to murder and die for something as stupid as religion or whatever other deranged fantasy that the have are usually somewhere on the nitwit scale. Not always unfortunately, but most of the time.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,525 Senior Member
    Luckily most people willing to murder and die for something as stupid as religion or whatever other deranged fantasy that the have are usually somewhere on the nitwit scale. Not always unfortunately, but most of the time.

    With that I will agree.
    However, those nitwits usually have someone very intelligent and coniving telling them what to do and how to do it.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,730 Senior Member
    Diver43 wrote: »
    With that I will agree.
    However, those nitwits usually have someone very intelligent and coniving telling them what to do and how to do it.

    The mullahs and ayatollahs reel them in with the 72 virgin thing, and then they're either instructed by Western educated Muslims on how to build the bomb, or just given written instructions with pictures on how to do it. Most of them (99.999%) aren't smart enough to know how to use a cell phone as a remote detonator; someone a lot smarter than them have to show them how.

    Going back to the profiling thing, we ALL profile daily whether we admit it or not. Someone saying they don't is lying to themself, and believing their own lie. Looking at the mass murders in the U.S. there are two groups that stand out. The first is the U.S. citizen on some sort of mind altering drug due to mental illness. Read some of the side effects of that so called innocuous Ritalin used for ADHD; the side effects are worse than the problem they supposedly address. Back when I was in school the teacher used the 'board of education' to help you settle down and concentrate on the lesson and not disrupt the class.

    Second group is Muslims, citizens or otherwise, that get all offended for some reason and kill a bunch of infidels. Pulse nightclub in Orlando, the shooter and his wife in California, the Ft. Hood shooter, the shooter in Chattanooga, TN, the Boston bombers, the Blind sheik in NY that orchestrated the first bombing of the WTC, the hijackers that flew the planes into the WTC towers and the Pentagon, and a few others with low but significant body counts.

    For the first group, the mental health system has been gutted since the 1980's to make money available for Fed mandates on the states. That needs to be addressed.

    For the second group, profiling needs to be done, and that would include infiltrating known mosques in the U.S. that preach that hatred and killing the infidels crap. (That is already being done by the Feds. As Gomer Pyle would say, "Surprise, surprise, surprise!") Profiling and extra scrutiny at airports and other public transportation, and searches of carry on stuff, and physical pat downs is in order. Granny in the wheelchair and a kid in diapers is a pretty low security risk.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


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