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So we need more transfer of wealth??

VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior MemberPosts: 7,987 Senior Member
http://nbr.com/2017/10/18/the-housing-market-cant-take-the-shock-of-a-natural-event-real-estate-economist-warns/
“A successful guest worker program will help alleviate the current labor shortage in the residential construction sector, quicken the rebuilding efforts in Texas and support the overall economic growth of this nation,” wrote NAHB Chairman Granger MacDonald in a September statement.
Really?

Last I looked we had more working age males sitting on their cans taking up good air and getting paid to do drugs than we did actually working.
September 06, 2017

Granger MacDonald, chairman of the National Association of Home Builders (NAHB) and a home builder and developer from Kerrville, Texas, issued the following statement after the Trump administration announced it would wind down the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, which has allowed young people known as “Dreamers” who were brought to this country illegally as children to live and work:

“President Trump’s call to Congress to find a permanent legislative solution to protect the ‘Dreamers’ underscores the urgent need for lawmakers to pass comprehensive immigration reform. Given the chronic shortage of residential construction workers, there has never been a more critical time for Congress to enact effective reforms that would help revitalize the economy and boost the housing sector.

“NAHB believes that any comprehensive reform should protect our nation’s borders; include a new, market-based visa program that would fill labor gaps to ensure that the nation has a workforce that is sufficient to meet its housing construction and restoration needs; and provide a workable employment verification system. A successful guest worker program will help alleviate the current labor shortage in the residential construction sector, quicken the rebuilding efforts in Texas and support the overall economic growth of this nation."

Cut food stamps to druggies and allow people to get assistance only if they work, not look for work and there will be a few more workers available. Fear and hunger are great motivators.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
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Replies

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,762 Senior Member
    You can go to work selling cell phones for $12 an hour, or you can apprentice as a sheet metal worker or plumber for over $20 an hour. After 4 years apprenticeship you're making $40 an hour, with no student debt. In fact, you've been well paid during your education period.

    But, since a collage degree has been the end all for a couple generations, we have a couple generations who sell burgers and insurance to each other.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    NPR aired a local story today about how landscaping companies here can't get help because the work is so hard, only imigrants will apply for it.

    Smells like the same old immigration reform with one hand, help wanted (no questions asked) with the other hand to me.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,762 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I know plumbers and tinners that would LOVE to make $40 an hour. $23-ish area is about average around here.

    Hell for $40 an hour I'd become a plumber or tinner!

    Move to Denver and become a plumber or tinner.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Last week I saw a help wanted sign at the Whataburger in Destin offering 12.00 an hour to start. Most of the fast food places around here start at 10.00 to 12.00 an hour and we have no state income tax and our sales tax is 6% yet there are a lot of people around here that prefer public assistance.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,693 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I know plumbers and tinners that would LOVE to make $40 an hour. $23-ish area is about average around here.

    Hell for $40 an hour I'd become a plumber or tinner!
    Entry level is $10-12 here

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,693 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Last week I saw a help wanted sign at the Whataburger in Destin offering 12.00 an hour to start. Most of the fast food places around here start at 10.00 to 12.00 an hour and we have no state income tax and our sales tax is 6% yet there are a lot of people around here that prefer public assistance.
    My stepson didnt make that as an assistant manager in Panama City

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    http://nbr.com/2017/10/18/the-housing-market-cant-take-the-shock-of-a-natural-event-real-estate-economist-warns/


    Really?

    Last I looked we had more working age males sitting on their cans taking up good air and getting paid to do drugs than we did actually working.



    Cut food stamps to druggies and allow people to get assistance only if they work, not look for work and there will be a few more workers available. Fear and hunger are great motivators.
    Unfortunately the Democratic party relies on the "vote for a living" people for survival. Fortunately they have become to lazy to actually vote.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,185 Senior Member
    Since the storms I have said there is no need for welfare in Texas, Florida, and Puerto Rico. Unskilled labor for clean up and skilled to rebuild.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • sgtrock21sgtrock21 Senior Member Posts: 1,933 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    My stepson didnt make that as an assistant manager in Panama City

    Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
    Assistant Manager is usually a scam. Salary verses hourly wage. Always on call. No overtime. Working 40 to 70 hours per week potentially making much less per hour than the per hour employees they are supervising.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Call me selfish, but I don't want crews of immigrants coming into the construction workforce driving down our pay. My guys can do alright and make a living and support their families. I don't really want to compete with someone else working for half the money. I have seen it before where some small business owner hires a bunch of illegal/legal immigrants, pays them crap, then gets rich off of it while I am busting my ass to make payroll.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    :agree: Exactly, I see more folks from south of the border in construction/drywall/concrete/landscaping than I ever have. Not many jobs available unless you're willing to work for peanuts with no benefits.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,987 Senior Member
    Persons not in the labor force, numbers in the thousands
    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t16.htm

    I guess they are all living with mummy?

    Unemployed by duration, again, numbers in the thousands
    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

    Employment status. Take note, not in labor force v want a job
    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t01.htm

    Hows them for "facts"? I bet we could fill the need for hammer wielders nationwide with a little incentive.

    More knowledge of U6 (true unemployment rate) and LFPR
    http://unemploymentdata.com/labor-force-participation-rate-2/

    No matter how you slice it, we have the people here to do the work.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,987 Senior Member
    :agree: Exactly, I see more folks from south of the border in construction/drywall/concrete/landscaping than I ever have. Not many jobs available unless you're willing to work for peanuts with no benefits.

    Bull.

    It took me exactly 10 seconds to search help wanted ads for my county to find jobs as a Fedex driver and a UPS driver. Both have medical and pay fair. Pass a drug test, have a clean driving record and you can have a career or at least a decent living. You have to move your butt all day long and that seems to be the problem.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,987 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Call me selfish, but I don't want crews of immigrants coming into the construction workforce driving down our pay. My guys can do alright and make a living and support their families. I don't really want to compete with someone else working for half the money. I have seen it before where some small business owner hires a bunch of illegal/legal immigrants, pays them crap, then gets rich off of it while I am busting my ass to make payroll.

    They hire the Nicaraguans because they show up and work. I know a large operator, as in did the US Open @ the Oakmont large, who coudnt find people who were not high and would actually work for pay. He imported green card holders, put them up in a house and gave them transportation. If you couldnt get people to go to work for you and you have contracts to fill, what would you do?
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 12,185 Senior Member
    Sorry just inserting a few facts here. There is not a single program in this country that will provide cash to an able bodied male beyond unemployment benefits which only apply if you had a job and were laid off and only last 6 months. The only way to get cash is disability, which yes is gamed to a degree by some, but much harder to do and requires jumping through a bunch of hoops. Yes you can get food stamps which will provide ~$200 a month and there are homeless shelters. That's all the public assistance you can get as a male. Yes mothers can get some benfits to stay home and take care of their kids, but they're low, but sure some abuse that.

    For the record the total number of families getting cash assistance is 1.6M or about 1.5%. Cash assistance maxes out at between $200-600 a month in most states and is limited in the number of years you can receive it and has work activity requirements of 20-30 hours a week depending on the age of your children.

    singlemotherguide.com/temporary-cash-assistance-for-the-poor/

    As far as "masses of unemployed", it's mostly not true. When you factor in retired, students, stay at home moms, the legally disabled, and those temporarily unemployed between jobs for a few months there are surprisingly few not working who aren't coddled young people being enabled by their parents.

    Factor in retired, full time students and disabled? The only reason to include them is to slant the numbers to your way of thinking!
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    The solution to a labor shortage in the building trades is convict labor. Have the trade unions set up facilities in prisons whereby convicts can learn a marketable skill - even a Journeyman's Card if they're good enough, and farm them out to builders. They would be chipped or wear ankle bracelets to keep track of them. No salary mind you- after all they're prisoners, not people - just give them days off their sentence for the days they work, something like for every 40 hour week they put in, they get 1-7 days off their sentence depending on how good a job they do and the value of their particular skill. The system could be structured to provide substantial motivations for good attitudes, behaviors, and productivity. Any convict who abuses the work-release privileges by misbehaving, slacking, or attempting escape would spend the rest of his sentence in solitary.

    A program like this would make homes much more affordable for buyers, and convicts being released would already have connections with builders to get lucrative work once they're out. Recidivism rates among participants would plummet. When there's a surplus of trained, skilled construction workers, the program could be stopped until demand for more skilled labor increased, then restarted.
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,694 Senior Member
    My principal and his.brothers grow sweet potatoes, 450+ acres this year. They finally had to start bringing in migrant workers to plant and harvest. They built a bunkhouse and provide vans for them.

    They started out small and have grown to what they are today. At first they hired local people. But after a couple years they couldn't find anyone willing to work, so they hired migrants.

    The US dept of Labor inspectors showed up to inspect them this week(they came 2-3 yrs ago too). DOL inspects the bunkhouse(cost to build and equip was North of 70k). No top on the garbage can is a fine. The windshield washer on one of the vans doesn't work(not required by the state), Yet, DOL says it's a $1500 fine . Same with small pecks/cracks in the windshield. Can't transport a worker in their POV without a CDL. Even if it's a half ton pickup. DOL has raked them over the coals this week. No telling what its going to cost them.

    They are just small farmers trying to make a living. They use legal workers and treat them right.
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Wait, how would they compete with the free prison labor once they are released? Why would any contruction company or contractor pay them if the can get free labor? How do you determine which companies get access to free labor and how much?

    Will the kick backs come with a home made pie?:uhm:

    Or am I being obtuse?:p
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    Me and my crew has to undergo background checks every year to meet the requirements of several clients.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    They hire the Nicaraguans because they show up and work. I know a large operator, as in did the US Open @ the Oakmont large, who coudnt find people who were not high and would actually work for pay. He imported green card holders, put them up in a house and gave them transportation. If you couldnt get people to go to work for you and you have contracts to fill, what would you do?
    I wouldn't put myself in that position-- meaning make promises to clients that I can't keep. The ones that aren't stoned and actually want to work ARE employed. Why wouldn't they be? They want to work. The people he wants to hire already have jobs. It seems shortsighted to think otherwise. That leaves your friend with people that are either stoned, don't want to work, both, or someone from a 3rd world country.

    We will work in Houston. We have worked in New York, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Virginia, West Virginia,Minnesota, Indiana and Illinois. Show us the money! We work our butts off. What is it worth to them?
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    sgtrock21 wrote: »
    Unfortunately the Democratic party relies on the "vote for a living" people for survival. Fortunately they have become to lazy to actually vote.

    I think that's what we been waiting for.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Wait, how would they compete with the free prison labor once they are released? Why would any contruction company or contractor pay them if the can get free labor? How do you determine which companies get access to free labor and how much?

    You don't run the program all the time - just when there is a shortage of skilled labor. You can limit which contractors get the free labor by limiting convicts' use on low income-middle income housing - set an arbitrary limit of homes costing $250,000 or less -or whatever. When a "class" of convicts graduates, you stop the program until they are hired out. You can also set a limit on how many times a builder can use convict labor - say once every 5 years for no longer than 1 year. again, whatever! GEEZUS, we went to the freaking moon half a century ago, I'm sure the whiz kids in gov't can figure out a way to make it work.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Therin lies the challenge. A tight labor force equals higher wages, lower profits, and inflation. Completely depends on which end of the equation you're on. If you're a wage earner it's great. If you're a business owner or the elite it's bad because lower profits reduces income, reduces the paper value of your business/stocks and inflation eats away at your accumulated wealth. Of course one of those groups politicians, especially Republican (but also lots of Democrats) tend to cater to and attempt to adjust the economy to benefit. And this is pretty much exactly why nothing significant has ever been done or is really likely to be done about imigration despite tons of lip service in that direction.

    Personally I think Trump needs to stop screwing with legal immigration because he will get no assistance with passing any laws restricting legal immigration. He was doing just fine worrying about illegal immigration.

    But having said that, Trump is a different animal from what past presidents are. Trump makes his mind up and if there's any way possible he will make things happen. So don't be surprised if there's changes to Immigration.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    http://nbr.com/2017/10/18/the-housing-market-cant-take-the-shock-of-a-natural-event-real-estate-economist-warns/


    Really?

    Last I looked we had more working age males sitting on their cans taking up good air and getting paid to do drugs than we did actually working.



    Cut food stamps to druggies and allow people to get assistance only if they work, not look for work and there will be a few more workers available. Fear and hunger are great motivators.

    Ya know, this has been a suggested remedy for years, require a drug test before distributing any government subsistance. That was predictably shot down in a democratic reime, but hell, the repubs control all facets of the government at this time and there's no excuse for not getting meaningful legislation passed now. This tells me that some of these congressonal mouth pieces are nothing but RINOs.

    Yeah I know, it's an obvious statement, but it needed to be said.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,987 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    I wouldn't put myself in that position-- meaning make promises to clients that I can't keep. The ones that aren't stoned and actually want to work ARE employed. Why wouldn't they be? They want to work. The people he wants to hire already have jobs. It seems shortsighted to think otherwise. That leaves your friend with people that are either stoned, don't want to work, both, or someone from a 3rd world country.

    We will work in Houston. We have worked in New York, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Virginia, West Virginia,Minnesota, Indiana and Illinois. Show us the money! We work our butts off. What is it worth to them?

    So you keep a full time staff on the payroll for any conceivable job or do you pass up anything that will expand your business? Second, he has a full time crew of skilled labor, he needs additional semi or non skilled labor for different jobs. You actually are making the point though. He need workers, the ones in the US are either stoned or dont want to work, which leaves furriners. Those that are stoned or dont want to work are eating somehow. We take care of that problem and there will be workers. Fear and hunger are great motivators.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,987 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    Ya know, this has been a suggested remedy for years, require a drug test before distributing any government subsistance. That was predictably shot down in a democratic reime, but hell, the repubs control all facets of the government at this time and there's no excuse for not getting meaningful legislation passed now. This tells me that some of these congressonal mouth pieces are nothing but RINOs.

    Yeah I know, it's an obvious statement, but it needed to be said.

    Well Snake , FL did that study. They drug tested the welfare leeches and they only caught 2% of the people that came in for the check. so the libs say that welfare people are not a bunch of drug users. The part of the study that never is told past that part is that about 1/4 of the regular recipients (IIRC may have been more) didnt show up after the testing was put in place to get a check. So either all of those upstanding citizens got instantly employed, died, or inherited wealth on the same day, or they skipped the wizz quiz because they couldn't pass it. Either way it is a win for the taxpayer. If the fail, we dont pay them, if they dont show up, we dont pay them.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,987 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    You don't run the program all the time - just when there is a shortage of skilled labor. You can limit which contractors get the free labor by limiting convicts' use on low income-middle income housing - set an arbitrary limit of homes costing $250,000 or less -or whatever. When a "class" of convicts graduates, you stop the program until they are hired out. You can also set a limit on how many times a builder can use convict labor - say once every 5 years for no longer than 1 year. again, whatever! GEEZUS, we went to the freaking moon half a century ago, I'm sure the whiz kids in gov't can figure out a way to make it work.

    Or the contractor pays the wage to the prison sys, the prison sys cover health care and ins. It isnt free labor (FYI illegal) The contractor gets cheap labot, the prisoner pays part of his incarceration and learns a skill.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    Bull.

    It took me exactly 10 seconds to search help wanted ads for my county to find jobs as a Fedex driver and a UPS driver. Both have medical and pay fair. Pass a drug test, have a clean driving record and you can have a career or at least a decent living. You have to move your butt all day long and that seems to be the problem.

    Not Bull. This ain't PA. Just my observations on construction sites I visit. I said construction, not truck driving work.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,987 Senior Member
    10 sec, 1500 mi away. Wellfield and Morton bldgs are hiring. FYI Fedex is hiring in Casper, roustabouts in riverton, insulator in casper 16-24/hr w/bennies, ......25 openings BTW

    https://www.helpwanted.com/wyoming-general-laborer-jobs
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,244 Senior Member
    So you keep a full time staff on the payroll for any conceivable job or do you pass up anything that will expand your business? Second, he has a full time crew of skilled labor, he needs additional semi or non skilled labor for different jobs.
    My people are skilled or semi skilled and it takes time and money to get them that way. I have been growing but, intentionally slowly so we do not overpromise to our clients. For overflow, I have some high school and college kids that are available weekends and all summer long that will have opportunities in the future to come on permanently if they would like.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
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