.45 vs. 10mm

DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior MemberPosts: 3,395 Senior Member
Watched an interesting video by a guy named Paul Harrel (sp?) where he chronographed 10mm 180 grain jacketed hollow points and 185 grain .45acp jacketed hollow points head to head with same barrel lengths. With three different ammo choices, the average difference in velocity was between 100 and 200 fps with the edge going to the 10mm. But, keep in mind the .45acp was 5 grains heavier - with translates to a fraction more mass delivered on target.

His methodology wasn't that scientific, but it led me to consider the 185 grain jacketed hollow point in .45acp is no slouch as a defensive round
It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain

Replies

  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,351 Senior Member
    I always thought of the 45acp in terms of a 230gr bullet, but I can see the point he is trying to make.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,018 Senior Member

    His methodology wasn't that scientific, but it led me to consider the 185 grain jacketed hollow point in .45acp is no slouch as a defensive round
    It's not.
    The 10mm bullet has a slight edge in sectional density 0.161 vs. 0.130. However, I'm not sure if that's enough to make much difference in the penetration though. :confused:
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  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I would think the only difference of consequence would be for four legged targets using bullets designed for weight retention post impact.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    For compact .45acps like say a 1911 Officers or 45 Shield (with under say 3.5” barrels) I like the 185gr Gold Dots Short Barreled loads. Speer tweaked the load for a little better velocity out of them trying to help with expansion. The one thing I noticed in the past with the lighter .45 offerings is some handguns can be a little more finicky with feeding the profile of the lighter rounds.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
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  • wizard78wizard78 Senior Member Posts: 1,004 Senior Member
    I've been using these during cool months, when I can carry my 1911, 10mm. I don't have gel test specs but the write-ups are good and I'm confident they would work out well in a defensive situation. Basically a "2 for 1" hit.

    The Doubletap 190gr Equalizer give 14.5" of penetration with the forward projectile and 12.0" of penetration with the rear solid projectile giving two distinct wound channel with each shot. The increased speed of this lighter Equalizer load give greater expansion and a larger wound channel for a better stopping power.

    What about two shots in one?
    A 135gr. JHP over a 55gr. harcast solid @ 1210fps. This load is VERY accurate and
    produces two holes on target. The solid hits slightly high every time - less than one inch
    from the JHP @ 10yds and 2.5" from the JHP @ 25yds

    Caliber : 10mm

    Bullet : 190gr. two projectiles: 135gr. JHP and 55gr. hardcast solid

    Ballistics : 1210fps/ 618 ft./lbs. - Glock 20

    “When guns are outlawed, only patriots will have guns.”
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 6,085 Senior Member
    Watched an interesting video by a guy named Paul Harrel (sp?) where he chronographed 10mm 180 grain jacketed hollow points and 185 grain .45acp jacketed hollow points head to head with same barrel lengths. With three different ammo choices, the average difference in velocity was between 100 and 200 fps with the edge going to the 10mm. But, keep in mind the .45acp was 5 grains heavier - with translates to a fraction more mass delivered on target.

    His methodology wasn't that scientific, but it led me to consider the 185 grain jacketed hollow point in .45acp is no slouch as a defensive round

    I've always favored the 185gr bullet in .45ACP over the venerable 230gr. For whatever reason, the velocity of the 185gr gives me the warm fuzzies.
    Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace.  ~ James Madison
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    I can't switch my brain from hunting to SD. I amost always go with more weight.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,511 Senior Member
    I've always favored the 185gr bullet in .45ACP over the venerable 230gr. For whatever reason, the velocity of the 185gr gives me the warm fuzzies.

    Me too.
  • BAMAAKBAMAAK Senior Member Posts: 4,319 Senior Member
    What we're the velocities? Was the 10 mm loaded to it's potential or were they weak like most commercial 10mm?
    "He only earns his freedom and his life Who takes them every day by storm."

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  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Don't recall the exact velocities other than that the same brand, but different calibers each were within about 100 to 200 fps difference. I believe he used three different brands of ammo.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • NNNN Senior Member Posts: 23,987 Senior Member
    I have been impressed with 185 gr .45 acp for apparent energy xfer and accuracy.

    I like the 10mm better with 155-180 gr SD ammo not tgt ammo. My 10mm tgt ammo is 200 gr; but. it shoots to the same POI as .40 180 gr in the same gun.

    I'm referring to revolver comparison, not pistol.
    A Veteran is someone that served in the Military, it does not matter where they served.
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 979 Senior Member
    My .45 Shield shoots 185gr Sierra JHPs over a decent charge of Power Pistol fairly well. My CZ97 prefers a 200gr for accuracy.

    Both my DW RZ10 and G40 seem to shoot 180gr FMP and XTP just fine. I will have to try some 155gr XTP some time though.

    I don't carry my RZ10 and the G40 is really only for when I go to wooded areas with larger critters that could pose a threat. Now if there was a 10mm Shield I just might get one and carry a 10mm.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    I would lean towards the 185 .45 myself. Yes the 45 was designed around the 230gr....but 100 years ago with craptastic powder and bullets, and FMJ for war.
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    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 2,348 Senior Member
    I would lean towards the 185 .45 myself. Yes the 45 was designed around the 230gr....but 100 years ago with craptastic powder and bullets, and FMJ for war.

    Kinda splittin' hairs here. Considering the 10mm was introduced as a "medium-velocity pistol cartridge with better external ballistics (i.e., flatter trajectory, greater range) than the .45 ACP."

    Of course it started as:
    The 10mm Auto cartridge was originally drafted and championed by eminent firearms expert Lieutenant Colonel John Dean "Jeff" Cooper, and referred to as the ".40 Super."
    http://www.shootingtimes.com/historical/terrific-ten-10mm-auto/

    As with most things with more power some folks complained it had too much recoil:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10mm_Auto

    If you're gonna use anything with power then get used to the recoil. If you want something for field use that's both compact, hi-cap and powerful then pick up a 10mm or 45 Super.

    For self-defense, use either one in some of their lower recoil loadings (10mm or 45 ACP). The .45 has been gettin the job done for a lot years using plain old ball ammo. Afterall, you have the option of using more than one round.

    I don't see a versus about it. Use whichever one you like.

    :up:
    Beware of false knowledge -- it is often more dangerous than ignorance.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,708 Senior Member
    mitdr774 wrote: »
    Now if there was a 10mm Shield I just might get one and carry a 10mm.

    I'm not sure if that would be very pleasant to shoot. I've got a shield in .40 and while I can shoot it all day, the recoil is pretty snappy. I have been mildly interested in a Glock 29 as I have handled one and that's about as light as I would care to go in a 10mm.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,726 Senior Member
    I studied on this question a few years ago, when I was first considering a 10mm. Most folks I consulted didn't give much attention to the idea of loading the .45 ACP at higher velocity and smaller bullets, but their arguments weren't very convincing. In the end, I ended the controversy (for myself) by running across a good deal on a G20. The fact that it was designed for 10mm from the beginning was a factor. I wondered if the .45 ACP platforms would stand up to a steady diet of the more powerful rounds, and finding the G20 resolved the issue for me. I still like it a lot, after several years.
  • shooter10mmshooter10mm Member Posts: 215 Member
    AAaahhh.......I remember the days here when the 10mm was just my toy....... The ability to smoke a bad guy through both sides of a crown victoria or cadillac or kill any hog or deer i wanted under 100 yards with the same gun!!

    Seems everyone has found it again!!:guns::applause::agree:
    "You miss 100% of the shots you do not take!"
    "As long as there's Lead in the air there's hope!
    " -- Ralph Adkinson(Daddy) The original Marlboro Man
  • HAWKENHAWKEN Senior Member Posts: 1,688 Senior Member
    I guess that I'm old school but my 1911 is loaded with 230 grain Winchester Black Talons. I still have a box of those and a box of 147 grain BT's in 9mm, left over from my LEO days..........robin
    I don't often talk to people that voted for Obama, but when I do I order large fries!
    Life member of the American Legion, the VFW, the NRA and the Masonic Lodge, retired LEO
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,099 Senior Member
    Once I learned what a quenched wheelweight .45 Auto flat point can do for penetration, the "meh" factor of the 10mm climbed dramatically for me. If I want a flat trajectory, I use rifles. If I want a He-Man handgun round, I use revolvers. I don't dislike the 10mm, but in hindsight, the cartridge wars of the '80's and '90's seem to have been about solving problems that the 60+ year old rounds available at the time were plenty capable of handling, that anybody who had bothered to read Keith's Sixguns (published 1955) would have likely grasped at the time. Marketing weenies: ya know I hate 'em. . .

    But it seems to me that comparing a 180 10mm to a 185 .45 is kinda like comparing apples to moon rockets. 180 for a 10mm is pretty much medium weight and 185 for a .45 is the speedy, pancake on impact approach.
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  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 979 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    I'm not sure if that would be very pleasant to shoot. I've got a shield in .40 and while I can shoot it all day, the recoil is pretty snappy. I have been mildly interested in a Glock 29 as I have handled one and that's about as light as I would care to go in a 10mm.

    I had a Shield in .40 and got rid of it for one in 9mm. I now also have one in .45. I used to have a G29, and while it could be a handful with hot loads it wasnt terrible with most factory offerings. The G40 with hot handloads is a bit of a kicker, but manageable. In my experience the .40 has been very snappy, while the 10mm has been more of softer/smoother shove. If that makes any sense.

    A Shield in 10mm couldnt be any worse than a SP101 2.25" with a full power 125gr .357 load.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,708 Senior Member
    mitdr774 wrote: »
    I had a Shield in .40 and got rid of it for one in 9mm. I now also have one in .45. I used to have a G29, and while it could be a handful with hot loads it wasnt terrible with most factory offerings. The G40 with hot handloads is a bit of a kicker, but manageable. In my experience the .40 has been very snappy, while the 10mm has been more of softer/smoother shove. If that makes any sense.

    A Shield in 10mm couldnt be any worse than a SP101 2.25" with a full power 125gr .357 load.

    When I first got my shield, I bought a box of 165's and a box of 180's and found that the 180gr rounds were no where near as snappy as the 165's and several of my friends that shot it thought the same thing. All I shoot in it now are 180gr loads.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,726 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    When I first got my shield, I bought a box of 165's and a box of 180's and found that the 180gr rounds were no where near as snappy as the 165's and several of my friends that shot it thought the same thing. All I shoot in it now are 180gr loads.

    The only .40 S&W I own is a Kahr K-40, and it is much more manageable and more accurate to POA with 180 grain ammo. Anything less and POA was 4-6 inches above POI.
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