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Remington in trouble

104RFAST104RFAST Senior MemberPosts: 1,281 Senior Member
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/gunmaker-remington-faces-default-as-americans-buy-fewer-firearms-20171117.html I really hate to see any firearm manifacture
go down the tubes! If they truly have excess inventory issues, have a sale,I would buy
another gun I really don't need just to help them out.
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Replies

  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    I wonder how this will affect the other lines. Marlin, etc.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    When you continue to sacrifice quality and charge the same or more money you are going to end up in the crapper eventually.

    Pile on the election going to DT last year, now folks are almost giving away new guns. Remington has not offered something new and exciting in years. Seriously why doesn’t Big Green have a factory chassis rifle?
    The entire rest of the world does. Savage, Howa, Ruger even Mossberg all have factory chassis rifles.

    Why has Remington not teamed up with a higher quality scope maker for package rifles? Still using Bushnell Banner, are you ing kidding me? That name is not sexy, I realize that Bushnell is owned by the same fund.
    Savage uses Nikon, Mossberg uses Vortex. Get your head in the game Remington.

    Don’t be Colt.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,287 Senior Member
    When you can buy a 700 with a Rem discount for less than a 700 action, you shouldnt wonder where the problems lie.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    I gotta go with the Okie, and to add to that, they should can their CEO and find someone who knows how to run a manufacturing business. Virtually everyone in the gun industry knew that the huge increase in gun and ammo purchasing was panic buying out of fear of new, more restrictive firearm related laws being passed by the previous administration. Remington was banking on gun sales staying at that level for the foreseeable future which was stupid and unrealistic and now they're suffering the consequences.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,490 Senior Member
    Don't forget the R51 debacle, a polymer wonder 9 that makes the Ruger American look svelte (and has been reported to have issues,) and a pocket 380 that's not their own design

    Sent from my SM-S907VL using Tapatalk
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,127 Senior Member
    They are owned by Cerberus, a capital management company-- a bunch of money shufflers that wouldn't know a gun from their own butt hole. The same people that decided to divest of it after Sandy Hook. I hope they lose their asses. Then some actual gun people can pick them up on the cheap and run the place like it should be ran.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    In this age, for a gun company to go under is laughable. The appetite for firearms is steady, but you gotta produce guns people want!

    Still, back a long time ago, when Cerberus first took over, I opined right here on this forum, that if the left wanted to do away with guns, they had to start by buying up gun companies and destroy the companies.

    This was met with a little derision.
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • shootbrownelkshootbrownelk Senior Member Posts: 2,035 Senior Member
    If Over-the-Hillary had won the election then Remington would have been OK. After the Donald won, AR's went from over $1,000+ to under $400 in less than a year. Companies over built their inventories and are having money problems now.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,152 Senior Member
    They did really well in the 1950's and '60's with the balance of quality vs. production cost - that's why Winchester discontinued the Model 12 and the "real" Model 70. But over the last 20 years, they seem to have become ALL about production cost and either don't realize or don't care that their customers are going to notice. The fact of the matter is that the 870 and 700 were cheap guns to begin with, with a lot of stamping, riveting, aluminum castings. The 700 at least has remained pretty constant (though they keep trying to undersell it with 710's and 783's), but the 870 has devolved considerably into separate production lines for the police market (which are beefed up versions of the old methods) and commercial (where plastic and MIM rule in an effort to jump over dollars to save dimes). The for-the-sake-of-cheap Express magazine spring retaining system throws a MASSIVE curve ball into the customer's ability to easily change barrels or install magazine extensions, which was one of the 870's main selling points when it was introduced.

    So I'm having a hard time getting worked up over the impending demise of a company that is loosing market share to the versions of their products that were made 30 years ago. If they can't figure out how to use all this whiz-bang CNC technology to make a product better, as well as cheaper, screw 'em.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,703 Senior Member
    All of my hunting long guns are Remington of some stripe, so in some ways this is very sad news. In others, however, innovate or die.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior Member Posts: 5,703 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I'm not so sure gun makers need innovation. Of course I'm being groomed into a grumpy ass old man quite nicely. Make your product that has WORKED, and don't eff it up. When a rifle costing HALF of what they ask for a 700 is on par with that 700, something is very wrong. The fit and finish of the latest 700s I've seen sucks. And so does the price scheme. The base model 700 at Wallys for $379 is the same ing rifle save for a mildly better stock as the $600 rifle at wherever.


    Very good point. Also, further observation shows lower priced rifles (ala Ruger American) at least including pillar bedding in their cheesy stocks. I would pay the price difference in the ADL and the SPS if the SPS featured pillar bedding.
    - I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, and speed is the economy of motion" - Scott Jedlinski
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    They do have a chassis rifle. Bend over and take it....

    https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-tactical-chassis

    $3k is about ridiculous, especially when it only comes in .308 Win, .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua Mag. All fine rounds, also not one that is hot seller currently.
    So Big Green does answer to the call... sort of.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    Very good point. Also, further observation shows lower priced rifles (ala Ruger American) at least including pillar bedding in their cheesy stocks. I would pay the price difference in the ADL and the SPS if the SPS featured pillar bedding.

    What bugs me is that the finish is the same on my the SPS, ADL, and BDL.

    I handled this one https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-adl-200th-ann-ce

    Seriously, the Savage Axis has a smoother surface finish. The gaps were atrocious and the checkering looked like the machine picked three patterns at random.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,532 Senior Member
    Speaking of, maybe I should buy a 700 action and use the parts I have on hand instead of the LE-308 Pistol build idea.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,400 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    WTAF is that "checkering" pattern?

    I freely admit, I'm a checkering snob. Do it VERY well, or simply don't do it. But....That patten looks like something zorba would tattoo across the crack of his ass.

    HEY! :guns:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,350 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I'm not so sure gun makers need innovation. Of course I'm being groomed into a grumpy ass old man quite nicely. Make your product that has WORKED, and don't eff it up. When a rifle costing HALF of what they ask for a 700 is on par with that 700, something is very wrong. The fit and finish of the latest 700s I've seen sucks. And so does the price scheme. The base model 700 at Wallys for $379 is the same ing rifle save for a mildly better stock as the $600 rifle at wherever.

    What bugs me is thier decision to sell Marlin Lever Action rifles that look like they were built by monkeys with bad vision. It shows a total disregard for customers.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    WTAF is that "checkering" pattern?

    I freely admit, I'm a checkering snob. Do it VERY well, or simply don't do it. But....That patten looks like something zorba would tattoo across the crack of his ass.

    Seriously, in person it looks like someone put a tribal spin on fluer de leis and then did it with a dull framing slick.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,400 Senior Member
    Seriously, in person it looks like someone put a tribal spin on fluer de leis and then did it with a dull framing slick.

    Pix?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,122 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I'm not so sure gun makers need innovation.... Make your product that has WORKED, and don't eff it up.

    Glock is proof of that notion. Virtually nothing changes over 4 product generations and yet they march on, profitably producing guns that simply work.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Farm Boy DeuceFarm Boy Deuce Senior Member Posts: 6,083 Senior Member
    zorba wrote: »
    Pix?

    I didn’t bother to take pictures of the rifle. There are some on the internet.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,532 Senior Member
    Remington has a good product in the 7 and 700 Models.

    They’re design and marketing departments have sucked yam sacks for a decade or more.

    They have always sucked in the “budget” rifle level. Anything outside of the Model 7 and 700 sucks ass. So, their marketing department has dropped the ball on how to keep a highly effective product “relevant” in today’s market.

    If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it (other than the trigger and stock). Just learn how to effectively market it in a society that needs a new shiny toy to feel good about itself.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,400 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Click his link

    Duh.

    The Fleur De Leis itself seems to be OK, but the checkering itself looks crude.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • bellcatbellcat Senior Member Posts: 1,780 Senior Member
    Even the LGS owners have said Remington is producing crap. They need to restructure and start turning out a good product again. I haven’t bought a Remington since 03
    "Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the blind can see." Mark Twain
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,569 Senior Member
    They wonder why they don't sell. I was at every major retailer in town on black Friday. Money in hand, looking to buy a rifle. Either a R700 or Savage. There wasn't a single deal, sale, discount, nada, on R700s. There were barely any in stock.
    Savage, OTOH, we're plentiful in models, and cartridges. Savage were steeply discounted, and offered a $100 rebate.
  • Big TBig T New Member Posts: 15 New Member
    I lurk, and hardly ever post. But a comment or two: first, I own a podwer metal parts fabricating business. My largest market segment (over 70%) is new automobiles. We also do a fair number of gun parts. During the run up to last year's election, we couldn't make parts fast enough. On 11/09/17, orders for gun parts went to almost zero. Orders in this market segment started to come back in August and today they are at about 80% of where they were pre-election and appear to have stabilized. In other words, the market has assumed the excess inventory.

    Remington's issues are purely management related that has fought rising costs by cheapening their products. So much damage has occurred that their only salvation will be sale to a management group that knows firearms and manufacturing. However, the way Cerebus acquired and structured the gun maker acquisitions, it is unlikely this will occur in a fashion quick enough to right the ship. In other words, I doubt anyone can put Humpty back together.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,387 Senior Member
    think Remington's problem is spelled T-R-I-G-G-E-R. For almost 60 years Remington made Bad triggers, Bad as in Dangerous. They weren't everyday dangerous, but they had a fault that when the stars and planets lined up just right they would go off unexpectedly. In some cases people lost their lives. Mostly they just went off and scared their owners. It took many years but word is finally out. Then Remington tried too late to rectify the defect and in doing so they created another defective trigger. But to regain confidence of the bying public They have recalled all the old original triggers and also all the X MARK PROS made from 2006 up until 2014. That's a lot of triggers on recall. And you cant tell me that isn't affecting their profits
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Get out of Ilion, New York. Far away from the United Mine Workers union. Find a nice low tax, less regulated, right-to-work state they can afford to operate in.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,125 Senior Member
    horselips wrote: »
    Get out of Ilion, New York. Far away from the United Mine Workers union. Find a nice low tax, less regulated, right-to-work state they can afford to operate in.

    They moved to Tennessee years ago.......
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    They moved to Tennessee years ago.......

    Remington's largest manufacturing plant is still in Ilion, NY, including their custom shop.
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