Congressional FISA memo

JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior MemberPosts: 6,092 Senior Member
Jerry

Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
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  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,044 Senior Member
    Declassified? I have been reading about everything that has been said in there for weeks now. The whole thing looks like politics as usual by both sides and really has nothing to do with the people's business. I wish they would grow the hell up, set aside trying to screw each other, and put their constituents first for once.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    Without cleaning up the FBI?
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,044 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Without cleaning up the FBI?
    The Red Team FBI hacks or the Blue Team FBI hacks? They both disgust me.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    Well, the way it stands now is that the Blue Team got its investigation, which has kept a President scrambling for a year but hasn't slowed his agenda very much. So, now I would like to see the Blue Team get a dose of their own medicine and see how many of them end up in jail, or at least looking for a job. You can blow it all off by saying that they are all crooks, but I would rather shake the tree and find out which ones are crooks, instead of tarring everyone.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,991 Senior Member
    The one good thing to come out about this memo is that for once we finally have some Republicans who's last names aren't Paul criticizing all the power they gave the government to perform surveillance on American citizens. I mean if you didn't do anything wrong it shouldn't matter right?
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Citizens United flooded the lobby with more zeros than poor people can count, and news became infotainment for hire. We've gone from three ring circus to high drama.

    Tune in next week, same time, same channel.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    The one good thing to come out about this memo is that for once we finally have some Republicans who's last names aren't Paul criticizing all the power they gave the government to perform surveillance on American citizens. I mean if you didn't do anything wrong it shouldn't matter right?

    When you make any law, it's understood that Democrats will attempt to exploit it for political or personal gain - depending on whether they are ideologues or just sleazy opportunists.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,637 Senior Member
    And again, nothing will happen.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,044 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Well, the way it stands now is that the Blue Team got its investigation, which has kept a President scrambling for a year but hasn't slowed his agenda very much. So, now I would like to see the Blue Team get a dose of their own medicine and see how many of them end up in jail, or at least looking for a job. You can blow it all off by saying that they are all crooks, but I would rather shake the tree and find out which ones are crooks, instead of tarring everyone.
    So tell me the when the Team Red agents in the New York FBI office are going to be held accountable for the crap they pulled? Answer: Never.

    https://nypost.com/2017/05/03/comey-fbi-investigating-possible-internal-leak-to-giuliani/
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,553 Senior Member
    Meh, as Jerm says there's not much new there, except that reading the entire thing is better than having the information listened to in increments on Hannity night after night. I do think that laws were broken by people inside the FBI.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,245 Senior Member
    I am not sure if this was technically the correct thing to do but it is funny how the Dems did not cry foul when stuff that was good for their stories was leaked ... goose vs gander.
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,084 Senior Member
    Why is everybody studiously avoiding the fact that the "dossier" that everybody has been crying about was originally commissioned by John McCain and his RINO buddies during the Republican primary campaign? The only reason Hilary and the DNC ended up buying it was that the RINO's refused to pay for the load of crap the Brit spy came up with.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    So tell me the when the Team Red agents in the New York FBI office are going to be held accountable for the crap they pulled? Answer: Never.

    https://nypost.com/2017/05/03/comey-fbi-investigating-possible-internal-leak-to-giuliani/

    It's not like you to make a straw man argument. You are talking about agents possibly gossiping among one another, and I'm talking about the acting AG (Rosenstein, since Sessions recused himself)and the FBI hierarchy signing a request for a secret warrant to spy on a private citizen, based on evidence spun from whole cloth by Hilary Clinton's minions. The two things hardly equate, and even if they did, one has nothing to do with the other.

    This is a big deal and there is evidence to back it up, if it can ever surface through the smokescreen that the Justice Dept. is throwing up. If it's too much trouble for you to sort through the good guys and the bad guys, you should at least be able to recognize the difference between fact and heresay.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Why is everybody studiously avoiding the fact that the "dossier" that everybody has been crying about was originally commissioned by John McCain and his RINO buddies during the Republican primary campaign? The only reason Hilary and the DNC ended up buying it was that the RINO's refused to pay for the load of crap the Brit spy came up with.
    Jerry

    McCain was just a sucker in the deal. He didn't commission the phony dossier - he just got a free copy of it after the election and gave it to Comey, in hopes of damaging Trump. Comey just took it and played dumb, because by that time, the FBI had already been using it to justify FISA warrants, for months.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,263 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    Declassified? I have been reading about everything that has been said in there for weeks now. The whole thing looks like politics as usual by both sides and really has nothing to do with the people's business. I wish they would grow the hell up, set aside trying to screw each other, and put their constituents first for once.
    Agreed, there is nothing in the text I read that has not been headlines for months. Wasted energy to try to publish.

    But the fact remains that it strongly seems that Hillary and the DNC surreptitiously fabricated a fake dossier that they then used as an expedient excuse to misuse government tools (FISA) and launch government agencies (probably with Obamas complicit consent) into systematic spying of the opposing party's campaign at a MUCH bigger scale than Watergate, and for THIS they need to be accountable. If they are not we will continue our ongoing decline into becoming the largest banana republic in the world.

    So the government needs to stay low key, mount their case, and if enough evidence is found, charge the appropriate scumbags and put them in jail or hang them for treason. I'm ok with either outcome for elements in either party.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Agreed, there is nothing in the text I read that has not been headlines for months. Wasted energy to try to publish.

    I disagree.

    There are several things that were being bandied about as 'what if's' by commentators and were mostly avoided by legitimate journalists who were waiting for properly vetted information. The answers could only come from the closed hearings in the Intelligence Committee that dealt with classified information given under oath to those with proper security clearance. Having read the memos, there was no real need for the information to be classified, other than to protect the offenders.

    For one thing, the memo confirmed that the dossier was actually used to obtain the FISA warrants for a total of 4 times, and signed off on by the acting AG, two assistant AGs, the FBI director, and the assistant FBI director.

    Also, there was the testimony by Andrew McCabe that the warrants could not have been obtained without the dossier, and that there was no mention of where the dossier came from, or that someone was paid to create it, or that the man who created it was the source of the information. The FBI only broke connection with him when they learned that he was shopping the dossier to news sources and had revealed to them that he was an FBI source. The FBI used one of those media outlets as corroboration for the dossier, knowing full well that the printed story came directly from the dossier that it was purported to be backing up as a separate source.

    These details being confirmed by the memo are not small things. They are abuse of power offenses, and everybody who signed off on them is subject to prosecution, unless they can prove ignorance, in which case they are grossly incompetent.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 9,691 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I disagree.

    There are several things that were being bandied about as 'what if's' by commentators and were mostly avoided by legitimate journalists who were waiting for properly vetted information. The answers could only come from the closed hearings in the Intelligence Committee that dealt with classified information given under oath to those with proper security clearance. Having read the memos, there was no real need for the information to be classified, other than to protect the offenders.

    For one thing, the memo confirmed that the dossier was actually used to obtain the FISA warrants for a total of 4 times, and signed off on by the acting AG, two assistant AGs, the FBI director, and the assistant FBI director.

    Also, there was the testimony by Andrew McCabe that the warrants could not have been obtained without the dossier, and that there was no mention of where the dossier came from, or that someone was paid to create it, or that the man who created it was the source of the information. The FBI only broke connection with him when they learned that he was shopping the dossier to news sources and had revealed to them that he was an FBI source. The FBI used one of those media outlets as corroboration for the dossier, knowing full well that the printed story came directly from the dossier that it was purported to be backing up as a separate source.

    These details being confirmed by the memo are not small things. They are abuse of power offenses, and everybody who signed off on them is subject to prosecution, unless they can prove ignorance, in which case they are grossly incompetent.

    Well said Bisley, the media has been spinning this for awhile now, it is nice to have the actual memo for the public to read, AND, it keeps it in the forefront of the brain for the short attention span voter, hopefully the all of the poor FBI agents with "low morale" will step up to restore some credibility with the agency.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,263 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    I disagree.

    There are several things that were being bandied about as 'what if's' by commentators and were mostly avoided by legitimate journalists who were waiting for properly vetted information. The answers could only come from the closed hearings in the Intelligence Committee that dealt with classified information given under oath to those with proper security clearance. Having read the memos, there was no real need for the information to be classified, other than to protect the offenders.

    For one thing, the memo confirmed that the dossier was actually used to obtain the FISA warrants for a total of 4 times, and signed off on by the acting AG, two assistant AGs, the FBI director, and the assistant FBI director.

    Also, there was the testimony by Andrew McCabe that the warrants could not have been obtained without the dossier, and that there was no mention of where the dossier came from, or that someone was paid to create it, or that the man who created it was the source of the information. The FBI only broke connection with him when they learned that he was shopping the dossier to news sources and had revealed to them that he was an FBI source. The FBI used one of those media outlets as corroboration for the dossier, knowing full well that the printed story came directly from the dossier that it was purported to be backing up as a separate source.

    These details being confirmed by the memo are not small things. They are abuse of power offenses, and everybody who signed off on them is subject to prosecution, unless they can prove ignorance, in which case they are grossly incompetent.
    You know what? I apologize because you are correct. And I should have been more specific in that the memo is an official confirmation of many recent headlines that the press will now find hard to ignore. I still believe in less grandstanding and more legal action as a use of government resources.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I still believe in less grandstanding and more legal action as a use of government resources.

    That, I agree with wholeheartedly. I don't like special prosecutors, but that's probably the only way to clean up the premiere LE agency. Wray doesn't seem to be keen on the idea of cleaning house. If they get a special prosecutor, it needs to someone without Beltway connections.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,092 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    .

    Also, there was the testimony by Andrew McCabe that the warrants could not have been obtained without the dossier, and that there was no mention of where the dossier came from, or that someone was paid to create it, or that the man who created it was the source of the information. The FBI only broke connection with him when they learned that he was shopping the dossier to news sources and had revealed to them that he was an FBI source. The FBI used one of those media outlets as corroboration for the dossier, knowing full well that the printed story came directly from the dossier that it was purported to be backing up as a separate source.

    This is one of the facts disputed by dems. I just was just now watching an interview with a Washington (state) congressman who claims that the dossier had no bearing on the FISA warrant being issued. He claimed it as fact, but was unable to offer any proof. Until there is something more concrete, I think that this is what the dems and liberal media are going to stick with.

    We need to see more documents, including the transcript of the McCabe interview. The dems claim he never made those statements.

    It should also be pointed out that the FISA warrant was issued for surveillance against Carter Page, a VOLUNTEER to the Trump campaign. Apparently, he has been under investigation by the FBI and DOJ since 2013. I've heard reports that the FBI/DOJ even told him he was being surveilled. Seems to me that the FBI should have been able to find something on him in 3 years.

    I don't know what Page has or hasn't done, but it does seem more than coincidental that surveilling him under a FISA warrant either began or resumed (I don't know which) AFTER he became involved with the Trump campaign.

    Hannity and Sarah Carter claim that their sources have told them that the memo is only 10-15% of the information yet to come. I guess we'll see. They have both been like a dog on a bone on this.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    The FBI was investigating Carter Page in 2013, when the Russians supposedly attempted to recruit him on a trip to Moscow. The FBI may have had something else to use for the first FISA warrant, but they have to renew it every 90 days, and they have to have more supporting evidence to show that the surveillance is yielding something. This may be where the dossier entered the picture, on the three succeeding renewals.

    Shiff and the others who want to stifle this are grabbing at straws, trying every delay that might give them time to figure out an escape plan for their cronies in the FBI, and preserve Mueller long enough to get Trump into a perjury trap (my opinion, of course).
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    By the looks of this and a couple other threads here, when this investigation concludes, the evidence better be made transparent, or a bunch of people are going to be seriously PO'd.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,873 Senior Member
    Personally, if it was my call, I'd fire the entire upper echelon of the FBI and the DOJ and start filling those positions from the rank and file....
    The biggest mistake this administration made was leaving anyone appointed or hired during the previous administration in place....they should have been cleaning out their desks the week after the election....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,616 Senior Member
    Time for intermission and a musical interlude.
    If a Liberal throws a hand grenade at you, pick it up, pull the pin, and throw it back at them.



  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,084 Senior Member
    There's no need to fire Mueller now- - - - -just call any charges he brings "The fruit of a poisonous tree". Lying to the FISA court about the reasons for surveillance screwed the whole process. He's toast, and his investigation from now on will be completely futile. That's especially true since his good buddies Comey and Rosenstein both signed off on either originating or renewing of the the false FISA requests.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • earlyearly Senior Member Posts: 4,950 Senior Member
    Im starting to think Trump, Clinton, Putin, and a whole bunch of others all had their hands in the same dirt. Now it's a race to see who can get who first.
    My thoughts are generally clear. My typing, not so much.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,022 Senior Member
    NCFUBAR wrote: »
    I am not sure if this was technically the correct thing to do but it is funny how the Dems did not cry foul when stuff that was good for their stories was leaked ... goose vs gander.

    Right on NCFUBAR!
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,991 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    There's no need to fire Mueller now- - - - -just call any charges he brings "The fruit of a poisonous tree". Lying to the FISA court about the reasons for surveillance screwed the whole process. He's toast, and his investigation from now on will be completely futile. That's especially true since his good buddies Comey and Rosenstein both signed off on either originating or renewing of the the false FISA requests.
    Jerry
    That seems to be the argument Republicans are trying to make. Unfortunately for them it's not clear that this was even key to anything. The investigation didn't start with Page, it started with George Dropaduce blabbing to an Australian diplomat in a bar about Russians contacting him offering dirt on Clinton.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 9,999 Senior Member
    That seems to be the argument Republicans are trying to make. Unfortunately for them it's not clear that this was even key to anything. The investigation didn't start with Page, it started with George Dropaduce blabbing to an Australian diplomat in a bar about Russians contacting him offering dirt on Clinton.

    We do not know what was 'key,' but it seems unlikely that hearsay evidence, that apparently didn't yield any facts about Trump/Russia collusion, would have provided a sound basis for appointing a special investigator.

    On the other hand, if three assistant AGs, the FBI director, and his deputy were all willing to use manufactured evidence to pass muster for a FISA warrant, from a federal judge, then it seems likely that they might also think it was OK to use that same evidence to appoint a special investigator. If that turns out to be the case, everybody Mueller has charged will be using the 'fruit of the poisoned tree' argument to get their charges thrown out.

    Don't you want to know it if three AAGs, the FBI director, and the deputy FBI director were colluding with a presidential campaign to help destroy another political opponent? There is more evidence of this than there is of a Trump/Russia collousion.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,084 Senior Member
    bisley wrote: »
    Don't you want to know it if three AAGs, the FBI director, and the deputy FBI director were colluding with a presidential campaign to help destroy another political opponent? There is more evidence of this than there is of a Trump/Russia collusion.

    Absolutely not! All the dummycraps are going into "ostrich" mode!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
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