Remington Outdoor Group Files Bankruptcy Protection

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Replies

  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,924 Senior Member
    The last H&R I bought was in 22.250. The scope I put on it cost way more than the rifle. I love it. Groups good and fun to shoot.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,750 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    FIFY :tooth: I NEED a couple or three shotguns in 20 and 12 gauge for donor actions for rifle cartridges they never have offered in the Handi-Rifles.

    The one in .357 mag is one of my favorites, always get looks and "whats that?" at the range
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • ltcnavltcnav New Member Posts: 12 New Member
    Wondered what brands are under Remington flag. Went to their website and found this; More than I knew about;
    We are the world's leading innovator, designer, manufacturer and marketer of firearms, ammunition and related products for the hunting, shooting sports, law enforcement and military markets. As one of the largest manufacturers in the world of firearms and ammunition, we have some of the most globally recognized brands including Remington, Bushmaster Firearms, DPMS/Panther Arms, Marlin, H&R, The Parker Gun, Tapco, Advanced Armament Corp., Dakota Arms, Nesika, Stormlake, Timbersmith and Barnes Bullets.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 19,019 Senior Member
    ltcnav wrote: »
    <snip>... and Barnes Bullets.
    That explains the Barnes head stamped brass in a Remington box of 300BO ammo I recently purchased.

    With the amount of sales ALL through the gun industry in the last 10 years, it would seem a company would have to seriously work HARD to NOT be making money hand over fist.

    Everything I've read talked about companies having record firearm and ammunition sales, and "Big Green" does both, yet are filing for bankruptcy.
    Time for a MANAGEMENT CHANGE!!!!
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 1,267 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    With the amount of sales ALL through the gun industry in the last 10 years, it would seem a company would have to seriously work HARD to NOT be making money hand over fist.

    That is not hard to figure out. They are owned by a management company. A management company does not care about the long term viability of the companies they acquire. Think of them like spiders: they suck all the juice out and discard the carcass. All of the profits have been funneled out to the parent company. Now that we have a Pro 2A President and the scare is over (for now) they have decided it is time to discard the carcass before sales fall. Funneling the profits to the parent company allows them to file bankruptcy on and unload the holdings while keeping the profits. We can only hope the carcass will be bought by someone who cares about the long term viability of the business, not just a smaller spider looking for any leftover juice.
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,082 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    That explains the Barnes head stamped brass in a Remington box of 300BO ammo I recently purchased.

    With the amount of sales ALL through the gun industry in the last 10 years, it would seem a company would have to seriously work HARD to NOT be making money hand over fist.

    Everything I've read talked about companies having record firearm and ammunition sales, and "Big Green" does both, yet are filing for bankruptcy.
    Time for a MANAGEMENT CHANGE!!!!

    Management certainly deserves some of the blame; however, the nearly $1 billion in debt forced on them by Cerebus was crippling. Assuming the debt had an interest rate of 5-10%, they had to come up with $50-100M in cash every year just to pay lenders.

    Hopefully, the new owners let them make moves that will rebuild the business. I am rooting for them.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,778 Senior Member
    ltcnav wrote: »
    Wondered what brands are under Remington flag. Went to their website and found this; More than I knew about;
    We are the world's leading innovator, designer, manufacturer and marketer of firearms, ammunition and related products for the hunting, shooting sports, law enforcement and military markets. As one of the largest manufacturers in the world of firearms and ammunition, we have some of the most globally recognized brands including Remington, Bushmaster Firearms, DPMS/Panther Arms, Marlin, H&R, The Parker Gun, Tapco, Advanced Armament Corp., Dakota Arms, Nesika, Stormlake, Timbersmith and Barnes Bullets.

    Damn. They should have made an integral suppressed Handi-Rifle.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    Hey, why won't the Govt bail them out? They did it for the automotive industry. Put some guidelines in place and keep a traditional American company going.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • terminator012terminator012 Senior Member Posts: 3,924 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Hey, why won't the Govt bail them out? They did it for the automotive industry. Put some guidelines in place and keep a traditional American company going.

    Would love to see Trump do that. Talking about some PO'd folks.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 26,190 Senior Member
    bullsi1911 wrote: »
    Heck yes, I’d buy one in 10mm

    Maybe I need to float that idea past Remington. Those Handi-Rifle actions are quick to make. And if they made what people REALLY WANTED, not what the bean counters SAID they wanted, they might make a bit of coin in the process.
    If the U.S. Congress was put in charge of the Sahara Desert, there would be a shortage of sand in under six months.



  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,351 Senior Member
    10canyon53 wrote: »
    That is not hard to figure out. They are owned by a management company. A management company does not care about the long term viability of the companies they acquire. Think of them like spiders: they suck all the juice out and discard the carcass. All of the profits have been funneled out to the parent company. Now that we have a Pro 2A President and the scare is over (for now) they have decided it is time to discard the carcass before sales fall. Funneling the profits to the parent company allows them to file bankruptcy on and unload the holdings while keeping the profits.
    Sadly, that is exactly what they did. They bought the company, piled a ton of debt on its shoulders, then funneled the profits to the parent company in the form of management fees, leaving Remington withering.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,778 Senior Member
    tennmike wrote: »
    Maybe I need to float that idea past Remington. Those Handi-Rifle actions are quick to make. And if they made what people REALLY WANTED, not what the bean counters SAID they wanted, they might make a bit of coin in the process.

    Eh. They wont make it until either Ruger or Mossberg makes a better version. Then they will make a knockoff with poor QC, and charge 50% more.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,896 Senior Member
    Would love to see Trump do that. Talking about some PO'd folks.

    It'd be worth it just to watch the **** storm: :fan:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,082 Senior Member
    Big Chief wrote: »
    Hey, why won't the Govt bail them out? They did it for the automotive industry. Put some guidelines in place and keep a traditional American company going.

    There is no need for a government bailout. Cerberus’s equity was wiped out and the company is now owned by its creditors. New lenders have stepped in to finance the company’s operations.
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    I don't mind the government bailing out essential industries finding themselves temporarily on the rocks - so long as they pay the government back in full, as Chrysler did decades ago and GM did recently. Arms makers are important. If the poo-poo hits the windmill, and things go far enough 'south,' the M4 rifles issued to our soldiers might have "Remington" stamped in their receivers instead of 'FN.' So might lots of other needed small arms. And you can be sure they'll be fed Remington ammunition, along with every other major brand.

    I don't care a whit about renewable energy companies like Solyndra; the eco-chondriac, climate change and peak oil nonsense they were founded on is junk science anyway. Just like I have no 'current' interest in electric cars or autonomous vehicles - that stuff is for the free market to sort out. But guns and ammo are national security issues. I would also have no compunction about bailing out GE's Electric Boat Division, or Lockheed or Boeing or Raytheon - the Pentagon needs ships and planes and missiles and rockets. And they need domestic suppliers for all of it.

    But, as I already said, the bailed out companies must be managed with government oversight, insuring they pay back what they 'borrowed.'
  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 3,847 Senior Member
    I guess now it will be tough to find parts for the 3 Remington 700 builds I was planning on doing.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,213 Senior Member
    Remington managed to chamber their AR in the instant flop, the 30 AR Remington. And they priced it way too high.

    They also sold .223 ARs that were essentially rebranded Bushmasters.....actually a really good rifle albeit a tad pricey for what you were getting.....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,708 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    The US government has ZERO business using my tax dollars to prop up a failed company.

    Where was your bitchin when GM got bailed out? The government handed them 39 BILLION and they only paid 27 -28 billion back and our government called it good. Bailing out Reminton would be chump change compared to that.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,082 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Where was your bitchin when GM got bailed out? The government handed them 39 BILLION and they only paid 27 -28 billion back and our government called it good. Bailing out Reminton would be chump change compared to that.

    Again, Remington doesn’t need a bailout. Bankruptcy will clear the company’s debts and alllow (but not guarantee) it a chance to recover profitability.

    Lenders will pay the price, not taxpayers.
  • BufordBuford Senior Member Posts: 6,664 Senior Member
    Fisheadgib wrote: »
    Where was your bitchin when GM got bailed out? The government handed them 39 BILLION and they only paid 27 -28 billion back and our government called it good. Bailing out Reminton would be chump change compared to that.


    There was a bunch of bitchin about that.
    Just look at the flowers Lizzie, just look at the flowers.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 9,778 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    I did bitch about it.

    We all bitched about it
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 3,847 Senior Member
    cpj wrote: »
    Why? There's millions of them out there. Aftermarket isn't going to stop. And, the new owners will keep producing them.

    I hope you are right but if they go like the older gun parts the prices will get all jacked up.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'd love to see some actual proof of that. While some parts of their rifles have been "cheapened" to keep costs down, every Remington 700 I've fired for years has been sub-MOA out of the box. Their new SPS stocks are much better than the old ones and their triggers while not Jewells are not bad for a run of the mill hunting rig. I know Marlin went through some moving pains but Remington in general still builds great rifles.

    And yes the trigger recall settlement will probably disappear with the bankruptcy re-structuring.



    Now I'm wondering if this may be a culprit in the bankruptcy restructering.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 3,847 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I’m shocked I did not get a :fan: out of this one. You guys going soft one me...

    #1 rule .......never give a crap samich to the guy wearing the Moderator badge. :rotflmao:
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,428 Senior Member
    I liked the huge billboard a Ford dealer put up in Cleveland Tennessee- - - - - "FORD- - - -BUILT WITHOUT YOUR TAX DOILLARS!" I heard he sold a bunch of cars with that sign!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 3,847 Senior Member
    Today a lot of businesses seem to think the rest of us need to help them when they screw up. Governments want to be in business. They are full of people that know little or nothing about running one. If they make mistakes they tax us more. They compete with hard working people that if they make a mistake .....it is on them. They need to fix roads,update schools,help the elderly & protect our boarders. Those things would keep them busy enough .....stay out of business ! We seem to spend way to much time & money bending to 1% of the population & ignoring the other 99% or worse ....taking there rights away .
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,995 Senior Member
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,930 Senior Member
    I agree, Remington, or whatever they call it now, should sell off all the other companies they have acquired and let other companies concentrate on those products that sold good before and Remington should concentrate on their bread and butter guns. There's plenty of people making good ARs and 1911s out there so that should be dropped and Remington should concentrate on its bread and butter shotguns and 700 Series rifles. I really think they don't need a cheap rifle. I think with CNC technology they can make a 700 as cheap as Ruger makes the American and Savage makes the Axis or whatever they call it now. Then they can still make 700s on the high end too. The latest X Mark Pro triggers are very passable for a majority of the hoards that hunt with them and on the higher end models such as the BDL and CDL they could put a Timney style trigger on them. If I buy an ADL Synthetic I am planning on doing something special with it so I don't mind buying a better trigger. I have bought 3 of these and haven't yet done anything with them except shoot and hunt with them, but in the future I may use them as donors.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 19,896 Senior Member
    Wondering how the R51s gonna make out with this...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 20,780 Senior Member
    I’m doing my part to support them by getting my boy a 20ga 870 Shotgun. Will be his first shotgun and dove season this year. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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