River rocks for defence

NN

I want my bucket or river rocks for defense, it seems that any old rock will not do.

PA school district stashed a bucket of river rocks in school classrooms to defend against a school shooter.

earlyagain

I was reading a non fictional account of the initial fighting in Afghanistan by our Special Forces some time ago. In an intense battle some amount of Afghan fighters ran out of ammunition and made a significant fight with rocks.

It does however seem woefully inadequate here in the land of plenty.

NN

Well, I suppose if you have the high ground, throwing rock may have some merit.

zorba

I read about this on another forum - Mark Twain's quote immediately came to mind...

Bigslug

"I wanna rock! ROCK!"  - Dee Snider

Diver43

10 plus people throwing rocks can cause some damage. At the least maje the creepo duck and think of things besides aiming. Give a teacher or other student time to break something over his head or discharge a fire extinguisher in his face. Beats trying to click a bullet with ones hand

Jayhawker

Does anyone remember the middle school that had the kids bringing canned goods with the intent of using them for defense in the event of an active shooter? Not the worst idea...getting clocked with a can of pork and beans hurled by a 12 year old would be damned painful....now consider a whole class doing it....

Bigslug

I can hear the news teaser now:  "Terror attack thwarted by Chef Boyardee.  Film at eleven."

bisley

I like the 'optics' of it - School Vows to Go Down Fighting,' because the government refuses to arm school employees.

Sean Hannity could repeat it 500 times in prime time, and the headline would eventually filter down to even the remotest of liberal bastions.

Beyond that, a high school baseball team could give one person with a gun some fits, and maybe herd him into the offensive line's reach, from the football team. It's not a good plan, but beats hell out of assuming the fetal position.

Fisheadgib

Wasn't there an incident last year where some illegals attacked two armed border patrol officers with only rocks and one officer was killed?

earlyagain

Fisheadgib said:

Wasn't there an incident last year where some illegals attacked two armed border patrol officers with only rocks and one officer was killed?

I could be wrong, but I think it was determined to have been a traumatic fall.

bisley

When Mrs. Bisley heard about this, she agreed with what I said in my post (#9), and expanded it. She said that if they weren't going to have armed adults to protect the kids, they should explore every other non-lethal method that students could be taught, to defend themselves, rather than trying to hide in a place where there are no hiding places (She is very 'offensive minded). The  older ones among us remember how much time the schools used to devote to fire drills and duck and cover drills, so why not appoint team captains and have rock throwing contests?

She said, give the teachers rubber bullets and teach the kids to throw their river rocks in volleys, with the teachers sniping with their rubber bullets at the crotch and head. She liked the idea of the baseball team throwing their rocks, whenever the attacker was looking the other way, and doing drills in their physical education classes, so that they knew to flank the attacker. In this way, they hide when the shooter is looking their way, and let the other flank throw their rocks. Hopefully, they will make him retreat with his back to the football team. Being mostly cowardly individuals, some of these Cruz-like shooters might even exit the premises when they see semi-effective resistance.

Again, I don't believe non-lethal force is the answer, but teaching the kids to band together and resist in an intelligent way is better than encouraging them to panic and cringe in fear. Once a person starts running, panic overtakes him/her, and he/she is no longer thinking - never a good survival mindset.

Jermanator

Anything is better than telling them to hide under their desks, waiting to be murdered.

snake284

Yeah, I guess. But the Fetal position offers a smaller target than standing up in the gunman's face throwing rocks at velocity of 80 FPS while the gunman is sending projectiles back at them at 3000 FPS. No guys, you are forgetting a prime lesson here, never take a rock to a gun fight.

Jermanator

But when faced with a gun fight with only rocks, it beats the hell out of hiding under a desk hoping someone else gets shot instead of you.

NN

Well, I do not discount that a bunch of incoming rocks is entirely a bad idea and is better than a bunch of screams.

But, a bucket of rocks in a corner is too many rocks too late, at least for the start of such an event.

They sure won't let each kid have their pet rock at all times and would confiscate rocks from clear plastic book bags on sight.

I think self locking doors that open only with the teacher's key or from the inside of the room would be good.

The metal detector is another issue that has some merit; but, in my day we would have put some metal in our gear just to set off the detector. Worn a big belt buckle-----watch whatever.

So you will have to strip search everyone and start school 2 hours earlier than now.

Oh, well, it is a serious problem.

snake284

We dont need a bunch of stupid ideas clouding the issue. What we need do is arm somebody at the school. Last week in Maryland it was proven this works and better than a pile of rocks, or other dumb ideas. There is no doubt in my mind that the Superintendent that came up with the rock idea is just another libtard trying to skirt around the obvious to promote the liberal agenda which is do away with guns in the hands of law abiding citizens. Nothing else will do because to them it's not about preventing a tragedy i'ts about controlling the masses.

Jayhawker

snake284 said:

Yeah, I guess. But the Fetal position offers a smaller target than standing up in the gunman's face throwing rocks at velocity of 80 FPS while the gunman is sending projectiles back at them at 3000 FPS. No guys, you are forgetting a prime lesson here, never take a rock to a gun fight. 


I haven't forgotten squat....if the only thing I have to defend myself with is a rock, then I will by God fight with a rock. There are certainly better ways to protect our kids but while the powers that be try to sort out what to do and figure out how to pay for it putting a bucket of rocks in the classroom is a helluva lot better than nothing.. There are many cases when the bad guy took the time to reload with complete impunity while his victims cowered on the floor instead of rushing him and tearing him to pieces...

Jermanator

snake284 said:

We dont need a bunch of stupid ideas clouding the issue. What we need do is arm somebody at the school. Last week in Maryland it was proven this works and better than a pile of rocks, or other dumb ideas. There is no doubt in my mind that the Superintendent that came up with the rock idea is just another libtard trying to skirt around the obvious to promote the liberal agenda which is do away with guns in the hands of law abiding citizens. Nothing else will do because to them it's not about preventing a tragedy i'ts about controlling the masses.

This guy is getting his ass handed to him by libtards for suggesting this. How dare he suggest that the victims fight back-- you sound like the libtards that are shooting this idea down. 

Sorry Snake, but I agree with the guy. It isn't THE plan for a school shooter, but part of a comprehensive security plan. If it was the sole solution, I would be right beside you criticizing him. In Maryland last week, an armed school officer did his job perfectly. In Florida last month, the school officer failed miserably. It would be nice to have some back up to the backup to the backup happening. In situations like this, a bit of redundancy never hurts. 

bisley

snake284 said:

We dont need a bunch of stupid ideas clouding the issue. What we need do is arm somebody at the school. Last week in Maryland it was proven this works and better than a pile of rocks, or other dumb ideas. There is no doubt in my mind that the Superintendent that came up with the rock idea is just another libtard trying to skirt around the obvious to promote the liberal agenda which is do away with guns in the hands of law abiding citizens. Nothing else will do because to them it's not about preventing a tragedy i'ts about controlling the masses.

Or maybe the school board is a bunch of liberals who will never allow a gun solution to the problem, so he's trying to figure other ways to save some of his kids.

snake284

Jermanator said:

snake284 said:

We dont need a bunch of stupid ideas clouding the issue. What we need do is arm somebody at the school. Last week in Maryland it was proven this works and better than a pile of rocks, or other dumb ideas. There is no doubt in my mind that the Superintendent that came up with the rock idea is just another libtard trying to skirt around the obvious to promote the liberal agenda which is do away with guns in the hands of law abiding citizens. Nothing else will do because to them it's not about preventing a tragedy i'ts about controlling the masses.

This guy is getting his ass handed to him by libtards for suggesting this. How dare he suggest that the victims fight back-- you sound like the libtards that are shooting this idea down. 

Sorry Snake, but I agree with the guy. It isn't THE plan for a school shooter, but part of a comprehensive security plan. If it was the sole solution, I would be right beside you criticizing him. In Maryland last week, an armed school officer did his job perfectly. In Florida last month, the school officer failed miserably. It would be nice to have some back up to the backup to the backup happening. In situations like this, a bit of redundancy never hurts. 

OK I get you, but you do these things along with having some kind of armed presence in the school. Also, I thought about something else too, supply the teacher with some flash bangs to distract the perp until help can arrive. But whatever, all that should be in addition to an armed presence.

Jermanator

I read the USA Today write up about this yesterday and I guess that while don't want to arm teachers, they do have some staff that will be carrying in addition to a resource officer.

Jayhawker

Having more than one armed person is critical as we saw in Florida....where the good guy with a gun didn't nut up and go to work....

Uncle Fester

With a reinforced door, one of these should give (non-Broward County Sheriff’s Dept) officers time to neutralize the threat.  

https://securitysnobs.com/Abloy-Protec2-PL-350-Hardened-Steel-Padlock.html

Seriously, how expensive would it be to reinforce the doors on every classroom.?

https://nightlock.com/lockdown-door-barricade-devices/

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/teacher-invents-emergency-school-door-lock-278786115703

orchidman

Is this where evolution has brought us?
Rocks?
Might have been ok in Fred Flintstones time but surely there is a slightly more advanced method of protecting kids.........

snake284

Well, another post disappeared. It's like there's somebody witha button that as soon as you hit enter, they push the button and the post is up in cyber smoke.

bisley

orchidman said:

Is this where evolution has brought us?
Rocks?
Might have been ok in Fred Flintstones time but surely there is a slightly more advanced method of protecting kids.........

Think of it in military terms, with a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd line of defense. First line is the Maginot Line. When it is breached (or flanked), you have tanks and infantry. If they fail, you have the Resistance, with nine dollar Sten guns and Molotov Cocktails.

Gene L

Glocks, not rocks.

snake284

snake284 said:

Well, another post disappeared. It's like there's somebody witha button that as soon as you hit enter, they push the button and the post is up in cyber smoke.

Anyhow, adding to the rock idea, remember, you gotta fight fire with fire. However I dont think some kind of redundancy is a bad Idea.

snake284

Gene L said:

Glocks, not rocks.

I think most here agree with you Gene. But these suggestions are only a last resort if you don't have a gun or if the good gun guy should be taken out. That's how I'm looking at this thread. Not as a first choice or not as a first line of defense. A good guy with a Glock trumps a good guy with a rock anyday.

Gene L

I think placing a bucket of rocks in each classroom is fundamentally dumb.  If it was used, it would concentrate students trying to get a rock to throw and make a target-rich environment.  I think the idea originated out of a feel of a need to do something, anything, rather than look beyond practicality.  The same instinct behind that is similar to the hysteria of gun-grabbing.  A desperate attempt to find a simple solution where it's possible no simple solution exists.

I'm not in favor of arming teachers, actually.  Maybe because I don't know too many teachers I'd trust with a pistol in a classroom full of kids.