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Syria maybe left to Russia

centermass556centermass556 Senior MemberPosts: 3,534 Senior Member

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/17/politics/us-syria-briefing-trump/index.html

It seems the Senators invited to the brief don't like the POTUS policy and direction on Syria. It looks as if we may leave Syria to be Russia's and Iran's problem.

"

Senators leaving Tuesday's briefing seemed to indicate that Trump's isolationist impulses are going to win out, regardless of the consequences for US global influence, American national security interests or the fate of the region, where Iran is vying for larger influence and Russia has established itself as a power broker, edging out the US.
Democratic Sen. Chris Coons of Delaware left the meeting and told reporters, "The only thing worse than a bad plan on Syria is no plan on Syria, and the President and his administration have failed to deliver a coherent plan on the path forward."
"I think it's important for us to remain engaged in Syria and to pursue a diplomatic resolution," Coons said. "If we completely withdraw, our leverage in any diplomatic resolution or reconstruction or any hope for a post-Assad Syria goes away."
Sen. Bob Corker, the Tennessee Republican who has sparred with Trump over foreign policy issues, exited the briefing and told reporters, "I think the administration's plans are to complete the efforts against ISIS and (then) not be involved."
"To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    Where in human history has spending blood and treasure on the Third World led to anything besides a need to spend more blood and treasure on the Third World?  The U.S. is ESPECIALLY good at being half-assed about it; given the schizophrenic political mood swings our 2-8 year cycle of internal regime change presents, we lack the ability to properly consider and play a decent long game.  Another aspect is that millenia of outside influences on the region's internal politics are arguably why it's still a land of backward savagery.  Freaking EMPIRES haven't made a lasting positive difference over there; with our collective gnat-like attention span, we sure as hell won't.

    It's not our yard, nor is it our job to scoop up the piles of dog poop laying on it.  Fence it off.  Leave it alone for 300 years.  Open trade negotiations with whoever is left.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,660 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    Where in human history has spending blood and treasure on the Third World led to anything besides a need to spend more blood and treasure on the Third World?  The U.S. is ESPECIALLY good at being half-assed about it; given the schizophrenic political mood swings our 2-8 year cycle of internal regime change presents, we lack the ability to properly consider and play a decent long game.  Another aspect is that millennia of outside influences on the region's internal politics are arguably why it's still a land of backward savagery.  Freaking EMPIRES haven't made a lasting positive difference over there; with our collective gnat-like attention span, we sure as hell won't.

    It's not our yard, nor is it our job to scoop up the piles of dog poop laying on it.  Fence it off.  Leave it alone for 300 years.  Open trade negotiations with whoever is left.
    Goddess yes! And bomb the snot outta anybody who tries to get out!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    The U.S. hasn't won a war since our involvement in WWII. And the politicians screwed up the peace royally. We pulled out of Korea, we pulled out of Vietnam, we half **** both gulf wars, and we're still in Afghanistan, Iraq, and now Syria. Pulling out is what messes things up; leave it in there and get the job finished!

    And the highly restrictive ROE, and paying off the turdlet installed as 'leader' that works at cross purposes to us, and the hand wringing over collateral damage when fighting terrorists that hide behind women and children, which is directly where the stupid ROE rules come from hamstrings our troops. And that is why the terrorists use that tactic.

    As bad as it would be, pulling completely out of the region and letting them kill each other off with gusto would be the best thing for us to do. If we are not going to fight a war to win, and only dabble in the victory by attrition thing, then we're screwed. This Mideast mess has been going on so long that the terrorist babies born at the start are now joining the fight, and OUR kids are in the same boat. That's stupid.

    Our ONLY involvement in the Mideast, IMHO, is to help Israel when and if they are attacked. They are the only country that is our real friend in that area, and definitely the easiest to offer our protection. A LOT of firepower can be brought to bear from the Eastern Mediterranean if they are attacked, and we don't do what Batears did and remove our carrier groups out of the Med. That was the reason the Benghazi attack in 2012 went so well for the terrorists. If we'd had our normal two carrier groups in the Med., one in the East and one in the West, that mess would have been sorted out quickly, and with authority. And Benghazi wouldn't have been as likely if we hadn't thrown Gadaffi under the bus. He was a dictator, but one we could influence. The place is a hellhole now, and Obama can't say that 'he didn't build that mess'. Slave trade in Libya now is brisk and lucrative.

    Since WWII, the U.S. involvement in other countries squabbles has been the equivalent of sticking our oar in the manure lagoon and stirring up the poop and the stink.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,660 Senior Member
    Mike, you couldn't have put it better! It probably would have been better if Israel had never been created, but it is, so we're stuck with it. Otherwise, we should just butt out and let them kill each other.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Isolationism as promoted in the early years of the Wilson administration is impossible now. I don't think partial isolation according to Trump's impulses will be any worse than any other course.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Isolationism isn't the answer, but containment of the virulent terrorists could be, but ONLY if the other 'Moderate' M.E. countries carried their end of the log.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,660 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    ...but ONLY if the other 'Moderate' M.E. countries carried their end of the log.
    Good luck with that. That's kinda like picking up the clean end of a turd.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • centermass556centermass556 Senior Member Posts: 3,534 Senior Member
    Not being involved when the lines were first drawn is half of the issues we are dealing with today. They other half is not understanding the mindset.
    "To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."
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