RE: .243 Caliber 105 Gr. VLD Bullet - Woman Killed Elk At 688 Yards!

UwharriemanUwharrieman New MemberPosts: 25 New Member
Anybody see the video of the .243 Elk kill by
a woman, 688 yards and it dropped in it's tracks?

Looks like something hit the ground behind it,
womdered if the bullet went through. Unreal!
«13

Replies

  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,696 Senior Member
    I saw that video about a week ago and in all honesty, I wouldn't have even attemped that shot with a .243. I'm glad she made the shot but I own one and have taken deer with it and would consider a shot at big game at that distance a little irresponsible.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Posts: 4,768 Senior Member
    I caught that on the LR hunting forum. Impressive, considering everything going in, but even for the long range group of gun nuts, they all considered THAT a stunt in and of itself.
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Once again, please refrain from cutting short any baseless totally emotional arguments with facts. It leads to boring, completely objective conversations well beyond the comprehension ability of many.
  • UwharriemanUwharrieman New Member Posts: 25 New Member
    No way am I implying to try this,
    just unusual.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    On the bright side, the average hunter couldn't hit a 10'x10' brick wall at 688 yds but yeah, that's totally irresponsible for someone who isn't an absolute master of their particular rifle/cartridge with ideal conditions.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    For cryin' out loud!
    We're getting our shorts in an uproar over an ENHANCED video.

    Aren't computers wonderful???!!!
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,556 Senior Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    On the bright side, the average hunter couldn't hit a 10'x10' brick wall at 688 yds but yeah, that's totally irresponsible for someone who isn't an absolute master of their particular rifle/cartridge with ideal conditions.

    Luis

    Which begs the question, at least to me, just who is this 'average hunter' we all talk about? Whoever it is, it seems that he/she is not someone anyone wants to be, and is looked down upon. But, the statistical facts are that there has to be a large number of hunters who are below average.

    Maybe it's me. I don't know.

    And please accept my apologies for derailing this topic.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • ojrojr Senior Member Posts: 845 Senior Member
    I wouldn't attempt it.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    I'm with wambli on this one. That's what I gripe about when I see this on the net Edited to add: Or on TV! There are people such as our own Ernie and BP capable of long range kills. But to say they do their home work is a gross understatement, and on top of that they have the equipment to do it right and the judgment to say NO! when necessary. But when all the Joe Publics see this, it's like wambli said, they all think about trying it with their bargain rifle and scope and cheapo factory ammo. Even with the best of equipment and practice, this kind of shooting can be iffy and can turn unethical real fast. That's why I hate to see it on here. If you can do this just do it and don't tell, else the moronic tribe get wind and go forth and try it.

    Edited to Add: I have to say this. At anything 300 yards or less, a .243 or 6mm Remington with a 1-10 twist will handle those 105 grain bullets fine and I think with good shot placement it is not out of the question to use it on elk. Remember to keep the range reasonable and use the heavier bullets. However, never having elk hunted, I don't know what the chances of getting shots at that range would be. I wouldn't have a warm, rosie feeling at longer ranges.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    You know what's wrong with stuff like that? They posted that video on another forum I slum in occasionaly as proof that a .243 is a perfectly acceptable Elk gun and the usual group of resident idiots are sitting around patting each other in the back because they proved their point. I tried to debate them and just got a message from one of the mods asking ME to tone it down!!!

    Never mind that:

    1-The woman is shooting a horribly expensive custom gun loaded with custom ammo.
    2-Perfect shooting conitions
    3-There is not ONE TREE in sight for miles so if she wounded the animal it would have been easy to take follow up shots/track (I'm sure that would NOT have made it to Youtube)
    4-AND SHE IS WORKING WITH A FREAKING SPOTER!!!

    End result? Thousands of morons on the internet are now thinking they and their $249 Walmart gun/scope loaded with Remington Core-Lokts combo in .243 should go elk hunting too and sling lead at 688 yards...

    There is not ONE day that goes by when another idiot joins that other forum and the FIRST post is "what is the best gun I can buy to shoot game at 500+ yards, but I'M ON A BUDGET"....

    AND THAT is the reason boys, why I don't stray off the reservation much...

    :agree::that:
    Jeeper
    Re: .243 Caliber 105 Gr. VLD Bullet - Woman Killed Elk At 688 Yards!

    On the bright side, the average hunter couldn't hit a 10'x10' brick wall at 688 yds but yeah, that's totally irresponsible for someone who isn't an absolute master of their particular rifle/cartridge with ideal conditions.

    Luis

    :agree:
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    No way am I implying to try this,
    just unusual.

    I have a .243 also and I would never attempt something like that.... Speaking of unusual, years ago I worked with a fellow in Colorado,and he and his wife went elk hunting every season. He swore up and down and all around every season that his wife bagged an elk with a lever 30-30 factory ammo at 500yds or better. I ??????? question that!?
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    I have a .243 also and I would never attempt something like that.... Speaking of unusual, years ago I worked with a fellow in Colorado,and he and his wife went elk hunting every season. He swore up and down and all around every season that his wife bagged an elk with a lever 30-30 factory ammo at 500yds or better. I ??????? question that!?

    I know Robert, I grew up with a clown that used to say the same thing. But I think they're both full of it. The trajectory of a 30-30 bullet, no matter what grain, at 500 yards is known in Naval gunnery as Plunging fire. In other words the projectile is most probably almost vertical aproaching its target at that range. How you gonna figure that shot out? :silly::roll::rotflmao:

    Ain't no way they can do that consistantly. It would be a once in a lifetime shot. Some people just have a hell of an imagination. Either that or they watched Quigley Down Under too many times and started believing it. :roll2:
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,046 Senior Member
    That was likely John's rifle or one of his builds.
    John is probably the best or the second best field shooter I know.
    If, he has done the coaching and is doping the wind for her, then the shot becomes a whole lot easier.
    Not my top pick for an elk rig, but I have a friend who has killed a number of elk with a 6XC and 107 smackies (heart/lung area).
    He is another excellent field shot, but his distances were not that far.
    The ordinary hunter cannot make that shot with consistency with their 243 Win., and most the time, not at all.
    John is promoting his system/business.
    I know this, I am not at John's level.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • orchidmanorchidman Senior Member Posts: 7,731 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    In order to be nice here I need to kill the useless somewhere else... You can call me Dexter

    :tooth:

    Hey Wambli, I found the original site that the vid was posted up on.

    Read through all 42 pages that were generated by the posters.( LMAO) It was interesting to see the comments and how vicious some posters got towards the 'naysayers'.


    The real gem was finding out that the lady shooter 'had not fired that rifle at all' before the shot was taken. No ' lets see what you are capable of at paper' first etc. ( she does own a 300Win Mag so she does appear to have some skills I guess)

    Made me appreciate this place and how it is run even more.
    Still enjoying the trip of a lifetime and making the best of what I have.....
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,855 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    No you are NOT!

    The "average hunter" can be found at Walmarts or Cabelas the day before hunting season buying ammo for a gun they have no hope of sighting in before they go out to hunt (it's they same ammo they always buy anyway right?). The average hunter knows less about firearms than my 3 year old niece. He bought his gun/bow/muzzle-loader based on the salesperson's/best friend/uncle Ernie's recommendation in a chambering that is probably totally inappropriate for the game he is pursuing. If you ask him if his gun shoots to MOA he will look at you like you got three heads and a small speck of drool will twinkle at you from the corner of his mouth.

    The good news is that this guy at least knows enough not to shoot himself or others (because at least he had to take the hunter safety course and pass) and he is probably a good Joe with a little common sense. He might actually kill something (I believe in New York State the success rate is about 10% of licenses sold) because in most places deer are like locusts and because his buddy put him in a stand or blind where game will walk by at less that 50 yards and at than range even a bore sighted package gun should smack a deer SOMEWHERE. Then he will get on a gun board and tell everyone he just killed a deer with his .XXX caliber hammer of Thor (which now becomes the ultimate weapon for everything in the world) at 500 yards because he knows spit about judging distance and tall tales around the fire pit are as old as mankind.

    He now feels entitled to pass along all this knowledge he has accumulated to other "average hunters" in every gun/hunting forum in the world... BTW I know this because I actually worked in a Gander Mountain store for a spell for fun right through a hunting season and saw them in droves. Also because in an effort to look for good ideas for us I go to other sites and lurk and sometimes even contribute (that normally just bites me on the rump), and those sites are FULL of "average hunters". Some of them were so kind (both at GM in person or in these sites) as to actually ask me questions so they could then debate me with their superior knowledge of things like "knock-down power" and try to educate me, apparently so I could do my job better...

    But the interesting fact is that we have none of them here and for the most part I don't seem to associate with them much. And yes he is someone that I believe no one here strives to be. That does not make him a bad guy. Just not my kind of guy...

    You hit on something here wambli. I taught hunter ed for 15 years and in Texas, and the ciriculum contains a lot of this information that Joe Public has no clue of. We were lucky that we had a good team put the program together. Then in 1986 when the State made it mandatory to take the course for kids above 12 up thru adults born after January 1 1950, to get a hunting license, they hired a guy named Steve Hall out of Colorado. He was experienced in the hunter ed field and he reinforced teaching more than the bare basics. Here it really is more than just a safety course. It teaches stuff like how to dress game, how to sight in a rifle, how to identify game and a whole lot more. Even the safety part is deeper than just knowing the ten commandments of Hunter Safety. We taught stuff like being really careful identifying the cartridge their rifle used and what could happen say if you put a 6mm round in a .25-06 and such. Still, a lot of them forget and some just barely pass because all they want out of it is the card so they can get a license and hunt. But still, it exposes the student to more than the minimum so they're not totally clueless. I'm not sure what other states programes teach, but it should be more than a Mickey Mouse safety course. Now Steve Hall is the head of the Texas State Rifle Association.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 7,350 Senior Member
    Wambli acually just gave out a damned good description of what I've seen far too often when browsing the gun section of the various stores. I hate to say it, but some of he guys I've hunted with aren't too far off from that description. Not that bad, but almost. There's a father and son I hunt with who are both good guys and have killed many deer over the years, but they would be even more successful if they knew things like changing ammo - especially for a different grain weight - can drastically affect point of impact. The dad isn't THAT old (maybe mid-60s) and told me last year that he was thinking about quitting hunting because "his eyes must be going bad." He missed a couple of shots the first morning we went out together, but he shoots offhand as a rule rather than an exception, fires whatever ammo is on sale at the top of the season (purely because he's cheap), changes ammo mid-season without checking his zero, and shoots the same 6-MOA gun that he's had since the 1960s. I know it shoots that poorly because I helped him zero the pattern, er, uh, group befpore the season. He won't get something remarkably better for just a few hundred bucks (again, because he's cheap). His son is also a good guy who I used to work with, but when I showed him a target of a nearly 1/4" group @ 100 yards, he jokingly quipped, "yeah, but you missed the bullseye about 2 inches low." He had no idea that I was merely grouping the gun and that all I would have to do is zero the rifle to the group.

    It amazes me just how many people go into the woods with little or no knowledge of how the tool they use to hunt really works.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    Sounds a bit fishy to me. I suppose it could be done but uh yeah.. no.

    And here I am thinking my .308 at 250~ yards is a bit sketchy
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,425 Senior Member
    Using a living, breathing game animal as a long-range target is just wrong on so many levels it's impossible to justify. The only living things I can really see shooting at from distances like that are varmints and terrorists, or maybe feral hogs. Either way, a clean kill isn't really a priority with one of them in the crosshairs.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • deadeyedeadeye Member Posts: 73 Member
    If you could get 3000fps out of it, at that range if placed right, it would definitely have the power to do it. Personally i wouldnt attempt it unless i couldnt get any closer and i had a real good rest and zero wind. Always was taught that a good hunter is judged by the ethical decisions he makes in the field and his ability to stalk his prey to within a distance that he can humanely place his shot so the animal doesnt suffer.
    No Need To Run, You Will Only Die Tired
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    That was likely John's rifle or one of his builds.
    John is probably the best or the second best field shooter I know.
    If, he has done the coaching and is doping the wind for her, then the shot becomes a whole lot easier.
    Not my top pick for an elk rig, but I have a friend who has killed a number of elk with a 6XC and 107 smackies (heart/lung area).
    He is another excellent field shot, but his distances were not that far.
    The ordinary hunter cannot make that shot with consistency with their 243 Win., and most the time, not at all.
    John is promoting his system/business.
    I know this, I am not at John's level.

    :yikes: Now *that* is some high praise there. Ernie, I'll take your word for that, because in my book, you're definitely an AMAZING shot.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,058 Senior Member
    This amounts to a stunt...using a live animal as a target...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Actually I bet you he probably believed it to be true. You know why? Next time you are hunting or out with friends in the great outdoors bring a laser range finder and ask folks to point out an object they believe to be 500 yards away. I've done this a bunch of times and the usual is for folks to point at things about a hair over 100 to MAYBE 200 yards away, specially when they have no point of reference like in an open field. Golfers are about the only ones I know that can pretty accurately tell you what 500 yards looks like. The rest of the people suck at it.

    Wambli I am going to take ya up on this... You got me curious now about judging distances... I have a laser range finder, and I alway verify my distance to target on the Range, before I shoot... I never thought about how the woods, forrest etc. might affect peception on distance.... Thanks...
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Using a living, breathing game animal as a long-range target is just wrong on so many levels it's impossible to justify. The only living things I can really see shooting at from distances like that are varmints and terrorists, or maybe feral hogs. Either way, a clean kill isn't really a priority with one of them in the crosshairs.
    Jerry

    :that::that::agree: Using a live animal as a long-range target is 900 kind of ways Wrong!!!!!
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • robert38-55robert38-55 Senior Member Posts: 3,621 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I know Robert, I grew up with a clown that used to say the same thing. But I think they're both full of it. The trajectory of a 30-30 bullet, no matter what grain, at 500 yards is known in Naval gunnery as Plunging fire. In other words the projectile is most probably almost vertical aproaching its target at that range. How you gonna figure that shot out? :silly::roll::rotflmao:

    Ain't no way they can do that consistantly. It would be a once in a lifetime shot. Some people just have a hell of an imagination. Either that or they watched Quigley Down Under too many times and started believing it. :roll2:

    Thanks Snake! Out of all the rifles I own, if I was to go Elk hunting in Colorado I would choose my 7mm mag. and my 30-06 Thats all I am saying.
    "It is what it is":usa:
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,696 Senior Member
    Airedale wrote: »
    For cryin' out loud!
    We're getting our shorts in an uproar over an ENHANCED video.

    Aren't computers wonderful???!!!


    So are you suggesting that it's fake? If you are, you might want to present a little proof.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,696 Senior Member
    I'm actually supprised that no one emerged in staunch defense of the shot. Almost every time someone posts about a small or mid caliber, lower energy round not being the ideal round to harvest a larger game animal like an elk or a bear, or a moose, there always seems to be a handful of folks that argue that their (add aqaintance or relative) has killed (add large number and large game animal) at (insert unreasonable distance) and not one of them took another step. This of course is followed with the now cliche statement "ya just have to do your job and put the bullet in the right place."
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,058 Senior Member
    I think, in this case, it has to be the cartridge/bullet + range that has has caused some consternation...Most of the discussions you refer to (if I remember correctly) involved shooting deer with a .223. There was a whole lot in that scenario that could have gone wrong and resulted in a crippled animal...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,058 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Actually I bet you he probably believed it to be true. You know why? Next time you are hunting or out with friends in the great outdoors bring a laser range finder and ask folks to point out an object they believe to be 500 yards away. I've done this a bunch of times and the usual is for folks to point at things about a hair over 100 to MAYBE 200 yards away, specially when they have no point of reference like in an open field. Golfers are about the only ones I know that can pretty accurately tell you what 500 yards looks like. The rest of the people suck at it.

    This...I never cease to be amazed at the ability of folks to over estimate range...it's rare to find someone who can even call 200 yards, 200 yards accurately. It's a skill one has to develop and practice at. Best tool for this is a range finder...make your best guess at a particular range and then confirm it with the range finder...after some time you'll learn what particular distances "look" like...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • farm boyfarm boy Senior Member Posts: 987 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    This...I never cease to be amazed at the ability of folks to over estimate range...it's rare to find someone who can even call 200 yards, 200 yards accurately. It's a skill one has to develop and practice at. Best tool for this is a range finder...make your best guess at a particular range and then confirm it with the range finder...after some time you'll learn what particular distances "look" like...

    :that: I just recently got a range finder and was surprised to find out how bad I am at calling range. I practice this skill now and am getting better but I was shocked.
    I am afraid we forget sometime that the basic and simple things brings us the most pleasure.
    Dad 5-31-13
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,850 Senior Member
    I just watched the video, and read the posts from the guy who owns/built the rifle. I agree with what Wambli said, he's trying to drum up business for his $6,000 custom Rem 700's.

    I see it as a stunt, nothing more, nothing less. The lady that "made the shot" was nothing but the "trigger puller" John set up the rifle, dialed the range on the scope and made the wind call (From his thread about it on another forum google found for me)

    I am quite certain there are quite a few of us here are capable of making that kind of shot when all we have to do is put the scope on the target, pull the trigger and follow through
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,546 Senior Member
    Jayhawker wrote: »
    This...I never cease to be amazed at the ability of folks to over estimate range...it's rare to find someone who can even call 200 yards, 200 yards accurately. It's a skill one has to develop and practice at. Best tool for this is a range finder...make your best guess at a particular range and then confirm it with the range finder...after some time you'll learn what particular distances "look" like...

    Yep. A few years ago I was shooting the first morning at a "new to me" dogtown. After a couple hours the rancher and his son drove up to where I'd set up. We shot the bull for a while, and I offered to let them shoot a few pdogs with my rifles. They both declined, saying they'd never be able to hit anything at the distances I was shooting, though the son mentioned a muley he'd killed a couple years earlier that was over 200 yards out.

    About that time a pdog with a death-wish popped up, and since I was holding my laser at the time, I ranged it. 118 yards. When I launched the pdog into high orbit, the son said, "Yep....that deer was almost as far away as that pdog".:roll2:

    But, truth is, I have zero room to talk. If the area is treeless, or an area with which I'm unfamiliar, I suck at range estimation, and I've probably had a lot more practice at it than the average bear. IMO, reliable range estimation is a much harder skill to hone than mere riflecraft.

    Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
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