NK and taking a wider view

centermass556centermass556 Senior MemberPosts: 3,508 Senior Member
I don't know why we are pushing for complete nuclear armament. Yeah, Kim at times doesn't seem to be that stable. However, I am reasonably certain his nuclear threats are just that - Threats. Think about it. Kim enjoys the lifestyle that comes with a dictator. He enjoys being able to have nice things and spend his nation's money. He knows he can't do those things if he starts a nuclear war. We could also come to the table with the deal of " keep your nukes, but if you start your crap again we are coming for you and and the nukes."  Because take a wider look at the world. NK doesn't have state sponsored terrorism. NK has not conducted attacks that have killed our troops or allies, and NK is not enough of a force to really upset he region. 

Now look on the other side of China and India. Pakistan has nukes. Pakistan has state sponsored terrorism. Pakistan has sponsored groups that have killed US troops and Allies. Pakistan is trying to disrupt the region. Pakistan also was hiding the #1 most wanted in the world. But yet we say nothing about their Nukes. We also send a crap ton of aid to Pakistan. Yeah, we use their roads for supplies. But, it is not near as much as before. 

I kinda understand Kim getting a little testy on the pressure. That and we have the wrong guy doing some of the talking.
"To have really lived, you must have almost died. To those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know."

Replies

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 3,262 Senior Member
    He sees what happened to the dictators that didn't have nukes. Staying in power is his motivation. Bolton ain't on Fox news any more and should have kept his mouth shut, but it likely don't matter much.

    Total nuclear disarmament is rhetorical song and dance for the big screen.
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 10,726 Senior Member
    Total disarmament is a bargaining chip, end result will probably differ.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,786 Senior Member
    Negotiation 101. Ask for MUCH more than you want and then start the bargaining. NEVER start bargaining by telling the other party your 'bottom dollar' on the deal; it's guaranteed to go downhill from there and you get a lot less than what you wanted. What Centermass says makes sense.

    And Bolton's comments about Libya were confusing enough to make it look like we'd whack Lil Kim after he gave up his nukes. I could see how Kim might take umbrage to that very unclear comment from Bolton.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,263 Senior Member
    Kim's sudden attack of reason probably had more to do with what the Chinese dictator told him when they met, rather than anything Trump, or any other American says or does.  They most likely told him to make nice, or start planning his own funeral. 
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,786 Senior Member
    If Lil Kim keeps it up and makes more problems for China, then they'll squash him like smashing a cockroach with a hammer.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    Teach said:
    Kim's sudden attack of reason probably had more to do with what the Chinese dictator told him when they met, rather than anything Trump, or any other American says or does.  They most likely told him to make nice, or start planning his own funeral. 
    Trump has been using the Chinese company, ZTE, as a bargaining chip with China. Under pressure from American interests, he has hardened his position against that company, recently.This coincided approximately with the last meeting between Kim Jong Un and Chinese president Xi. Shortly after, Bolton made the Libya comment, which gave a good opening for Kim Jong Un to start his 'stick' part of the carrot/stick negotiation.

    I think it's just a test, to see if Trump will do back-flips to keep the July meeting on schedule, and also to tone down some of the crowing about the 'concessions' NK has already made. Trump's cheerleaders have been gushing over his negotiating prowess so much, some people actually think this is going to be a slam-dunk, 100% American victory. It is not, and the other side is making that clear. NK will renege on any part of the deal, at any time, as a negotiating tactic. Until Americans inspect all the uranium and plutonium factories, nothing has been gained. Even then, they could have plenty of the stuff stashed away.

    The American hostages were taken so that they could be given back, so that was nothing given up, and the nuclear test site that is being dismantled has probably outlived its usefulness. So, they only count as good faith gestures that cost NK nothing. Most likely, Kim Jong Un is responding to Xi - not Trump. The real negotiation has always been with China, not NK.
  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,552 Senior Member
    I kinda understand Kim getting a little testy on the pressure. That and we have the wrong guy doing some of the talking.
    I understand it, too. He knows what happened to Khadafi, when a new administration came in and wanted to be seen as helping the Libyan people, regardless of creating a perfect scenario for terrorist infiltration, which benefited no Libyans. The whole Benghazi debacle and cover-up was about Obama not wanting to be blamed for that - very typical of the type of foreign policy screw-ups Democrats are known for.

    Creating the downfall of Khadafi is the exact same screw-up that Bush was being blamed for creating in Iraq, but even worse, because Bush left troops there to keep the power vacuum from sucking in Iranian backed terrorists. It was Obama who pulled more troops and opened the door for ISIS. Also, toppling Khadafi gave him no credit for his unilateral ending of the nuclear program - exactly what Kim Jong Un is afraid of happening, now. Ending the threat of another hostile nuclear nation should have been enough. The rest should have been left for Libyans to resolve among themselves.

    As far as Bolton's 'gaff' (if it really was one), it can be used as an example of what could happen to Kim Jong Un, if he does not negotiate a disarmament and start helping his people. Trump has even said this, when walking back Bolton's statement. I think the jury is still out on Bolton. He is definitely hawkish, but that may not be a bad thing for bold foreign policy, which the leading superpower should be conducting, while it can.

    The 'leading from behind' method of confronting dictators that daily rant about what they have planned for us is a budding disaster that needs to be scrapped.
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